High-End DVD/HD-DVD/BD player available!

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by charris cy, Apr 23, 2007.

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  1. charris cy

    charris cy
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    I have not noticed anything and I hate noisy components. I will check again tonight .

    I used to, for Theatertek, but I uninstalled it some time ago since the picture is still excellent without it. The only setting I was using was Lanczos x2.
     
  2. Mr.D

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    I will likely go the HTPC route once the HD disc formats implimentation is more mature.

    I love my current HTPC (SD only) and really appreciate the one box solution. With the move to VMR on vista I have high hopes of being able to use ICC profiling to allow really accurate colourspace calibration...eventually.

    I really enjoy building and tweaking HTPCs (trueimage/ghost are your friends) but I can appreciate its not everyone's cup of tea.
     
  3. av-phile

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    charris cy, Just to rephrase my question, do you also get pip and ime for both hd dvd and bd on your htpc? Thanks.
     
  4. charris cy

    charris cy
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    Please list which BDs have this feature so that I try some and let you know.
     
  5. jakey

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    Yes, all interactive features work on both HD DVD and Blu-ray. I use the imon remote and for HD DVD the Interactive menus are accessed by pressing the up arrow and then navigated using all of the arrow buttons.

    With Blu-ray it's a little different, the 'pop-up-menu' is accessed from a button on the control bar of PowerDVD and it has a keyboard shortcut so I was able to assign this to a spare button on the remote which is very easy to do with the imon manager.

    How this would be achieved with an MCE remote without reverting to mouse mode I have no idea as I've never used one.

    It all works very nicely for me.....now if only nvidia would release some decent drivers for my new 8600gts.......
     
  6. av-phile

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    Hi Charris, sorry I don't have any specific titles as I am still mulling my options on going high def. There have been disucssions in other threads about some BD titles having BD-J already but I don't recall specific titles. Perhaps other members here can help. But no matter, my curiosity is whether you are getting In-Movie-Experience and Picture-In-Picture already with the BD titles you have which are said to be common on HD DVD with iHD. The reason I ask is to confirm if this is software enabled rather than hardware enabled. I understand that BD has yet to release standalone BD players that can play BD-J features and that this is apparently more a hardware issue than a software one. BD-J and iHD requires dual video processing engines and does your PC have that facility? Thanks.
     
  7. av-phile

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    What about IME and PIP?
     
  8. Ian_S

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    This is a common misconception unfortunately.

    ALL BD players ever released, including PowerDVD have BD-J support, it's a mandatory part of the BD-Video spec regardless of profile.

    What BD-Video Profile 1.1 adds, which is manadatory after Oct. 2007, is additional hardware. That hardware is more internal player persistent storage, up to 256MB from profile 1.0's 64MB, and a secondary HD capable audio/video decoder which will finally allow true Picture In Picture.

    As BD-J is present on ALL players, should you play a disc that uses BD-J and PiP, if your player does not have the required hardware and the disc has been correctly programmed, it should politely tell you that feature is not available to you, or possibly not even show it on the menu.

    Now whether or not the lack of PiP is important or not is completely up to you to decide, but it won't be down to a lack of BD-J support.

    FWIW, Toshiba decided to sidestep the issue that until very recently, chipset manufacturers did not have units capable of dual stream decoding. They did this by putting an Intel CPU into their players which is easily programmable for a variety of tasks including PiP decoding, especially to HD-DVD specs, which were deliberately aimed lower to make sure it would all work on day one. BD took a different route, allowing their PiP stream to equal main video spec and as a result have been forced to wait for hardware support as a single core Intel CPU on it's own is not man enough for HD video decode, certainly not if you want one that doesn't double up as an electric fire.

    So, in terms of an HTPC, for HD-DVD that fact that you have a GPU which does the bulk of your HD video decode, and a much faster Intel/AMD CPU which will handle HDi and PiP, current HTPC implementations are perfectly capable of HD-DVD PiP.

    For BD the answer is not yet known as there are not any PiP titles with effectively HD PiP streams (or SD for that matter) to try PowerDVD with. For SD PiP on BD I would expect the same machine as used for HD-DVD to do just fine. For HD PiP though, you may be reliant on dual GPU setups to deliver the goods.
     
  9. Nic Rhodes

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    The spec for Profile 1.1 (the PinP channel being HD etc) was set at the same time as the current profile (dec 2005). BD were not 'forced' into not delivering players with dual same spec video channels but chose not to early on, to help speed and cost to market. They knew full well the limitations of the chips they used (as did Toshiba) but chose only to use one video stream chip as they are not cheap. A second chip could have easily been used but on the grounds of cost and speed to market they made their call and launched with the 'simpler' profile. Toshiba chose a different route with HD DVD. This is a choice BD made, and they have to live with the consequences. Launching with full profile 1.1 would have been possible but the costs would have been higher and we would not have had BD players so long BUT it was entirely possible. BD have suffered by adding 'new' stuff at the eleventh hour to the spec and being years behind HD DVD re deployment. Possibly as much as 2yrs. The date will be interesting when BD Live launches in a product.
     
  10. Ian_S

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    By 'forced' I simply meant forced by their own actions as opposed to forced by someone else... that action being requiring HD video on the secondary stream as opposed to doing what HD-DVD did and going with something they could deliver.

    That is why I did say 'as a result'... I think we're agreeing ;)
     
  11. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    We normally do :)
     
  12. Cocksure

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    I have to admit reading this thread has got my serious attention (if only for be able to play region free blu-ray). My only concern though (and forgive my lack of knowledge) is are their video cards with DVI or hdmi outputs? and are thier soundcards with 6 channels out puts? Finally is the cheapest/best method to build a fresh pc or addopt your old one?
     
  13. charris cy

    charris cy
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    Yes as I mentioned above there are advantages in using an HTPC although it is not the easiest or the cheapest route. Region free playback also ranks very high for me. The other advantages, at least at this stage, are also important.

    There are some video cards with hdmi outputs but you will not gain anything in using one. DVI is the same as HDMI but without sound in simple terms. You can get a very cheap DVI to HDMI adapter and use the HDMI input on your tv/projector.

    Most motherboards and probably all soundcards can do 6 (5.1) or 8(7.1) channels analog out.

    The cheapest method would be to adopt your old pc since some parts like the case, motherboard, memory and hard disks might be ok for hd playback. You will have to check for this though. I suggest visiting the pc hardware forum to find out more.
     
  14. av-phile

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    Ok, so there are still no BD titles that can be checked if PiP on BD works on an HTPC. Thanks.
     
  15. Ian_S

    Ian_S
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    And I don't even know if the authoring tools for BD profile 1.1 are ready either, which may be Warners real problem here.
     
  16. av-phile

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    Will that be a problem only to Warner? I suppose any maker of BD will have that problem.
     
  17. charris cy

    charris cy
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    Does anybody know any other ripping programs for BDs/HD-DVDs except anyDVD HD? Something that can let you choose you what extras you want ro rip like dvdshrink and clonedvd for DVDs? Extras are good but I never watch them and they take a lot of hard disk space...
     
  18. av-phile

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    Now that's clarifying. You never ripped the extra features then. So there'd be no need for you to experience the In-Movie-Experience and Picture-in-Picture features meant for these extras in a HD DVD and I was asking if you could do that for BD as well. Sorry for the wrong questions.

    BTW, can you just play the discs on your HTPC without ripping them? SO that you can check if you can engage the PiP and IME features? Thanks.
     
  19. charris cy

    charris cy
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    No, I am actually ripping everything from HD-DVDs and BDs since I do not know of a program that lets you choose what to rip. I was asking above if anybody knows of such a program.
     
  20. av-phile

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    With SD DVD I can choose what to rip, so I assumed you can do likewise with the newer formats. Sorry for misunderstanding your post.
     
  21. cebs_uk

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    Hi,

    I am looking at going down this route with that new blue-ray reader only drive but I have a graphics card question.

    Do you know if the 8xxx series cards can output 1080/24p yet, and if so what is the spec that I need to look for.

    I haven't used powerstrip for years but is there an option in there for it?

    thanks in advance.

    Cebs
     
  22. jakey

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    I don't yet fully have my head around this stuff, If I understand correctly you need to have a refresh rate which is a multiple of 24? I've setup this custom res on my HCPC which outputs over HDMI to my Sony 55". Of course I may have misunderstood all this completely :eek:

    My card is a 8600GTS passive with the latest drivers from nvidia, I have Blu-ray and HD DVD drives.
     

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  23. mickey101

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    My current setup up includes a AMD64 3700+ (single core) and a Geforce 7800GT with 2gig of ram. Obviously this isn't currently enough to get anything approaching smooth playback (I've a 360 HD-DVD drive and gave it a go anyway.)

    My dilemma is this: Would simply changing my graphics card be enough to give flawless playback or will I need to go dual core as well? And if I do go dual core (on socket 939) with something like the 4200+ X2 would I suffer a drop in performance as far as gaming is concerned?

    Mickey
     
  24. number1jon

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    This is a very inspiring thread charris thanks for sharing the knowledge :smashin: Seems perfect for me apart from the sound over 5.1 analogue issue, I'll be keeping an eye out to see if a solution can be found to match the quality of say the Tosh XE1
     
  25. charris cy

    charris cy
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    Mickey,

    I think an X2 will do the trick. There is an option in Powerdvd Ultra which disables hardware acceleration in video. This means that all the processing is being done by the CPU and not by the video card. So with a good X2 I see no problems. Of course you will need Slysoft Anydvd HD since the card is not HDCP compliant.
     
  26. charris cy

    charris cy
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    Thanks, my pleasure.

    The sound over analog is not that a big issue. You will have to use analog in the Toshiba player as well if you want to listen to the HD soundtracks. The only exception is if you have an amp that accepts LPCM over HDMI.

    It is a good solution until we get HDMI 1.3 amps/processors. By then HDMI 1.3 video cards/soundcards will also be available.

    I just got an M-Audio Revolution 7.1 soundcard. I will install that one to see if the sound is better than the onboard one. Please note that the card will be used as a passthrough device only: HD-DVD and BD HD audio signals decoding by Powerdvd Ultra and sent to amp by analog and DVD 5.1 audio signals sent over spdif for decoding by my amp.
     
  27. charris cy

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  28. MAW

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    That's an interesting one about HDMI 1.3. My original thoughts were that 1.3 was not going to be needed in the real world, as decoding can be done in the player, but of course this funcionality might well not be present in a PC. So for best results, you would indeed need HDMI 1.3 at both ends. The amps and processors are only a month or so away, and not expensive either, unless you want them to be of course! Anyone know about HDMI 1.3 and graphics cards, and whether you can indeed pass the audio bitstream out of them?
     
  29. charris cy

    charris cy
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    HDMI 1.3 is not really needed since the players or software in PCs can decode the HD audio soundtracks and send the over analog.

    In a perfect world though, and if you are looking for the best, the amp's/processor DACs and the processing power will be much better than the player's or the pc's. So to utilise the amp's DACs and power you need HDMI 1.3. On both ends!

    There are some rumours about HDMI 1.3 graphics cards which might be able to do audio as well but I do not know anything for sure.

    Are you sure the HDMI 1.3 amps are only a month away?
     
  30. MAW

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    Trust me I'm a retailer, LOL!. Analogue out is something I would personally avoid from a PC, just a phobia about 3.5mm jacks maybe? Hence the interest in HDMI 1.3, really for DTS-MA from Blu ray, I assume player software that does HD-DVD would, in theory, be able to pull the decode to PCM stunt and pass that over HDMI 1.1. I realise that is currently going into the realms of fantasy, but the technology exists, unlike an HDMI 1.3 graphics card.
     
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