Hi Fi ???? so many ????

beefy99

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Hi,

I have a Rotel ra-02 and B&W601 s3 speakers and have recently sold my B.K. Gemini 2 and was looking to add a xxls400 but then had a thorght,could I add a power amp and byamp my speaker and would I notice any great differance? any ideas about getting the max from my system?
 
I guess the question is...

What do you feel your system is lacking at present?

B&W and Rotel work quite well together however the 601 s3's are quite old now and the B&W 685 S2's would be quite a big improvement across the whole spectrum of audio compared to your S3's and would cost about the same as a XLS400.

I guess it depends on how much money you want to spend with regards to a new amp. You could for example then add an Arcam/Rotel power amp and use your RA-02 as a pre or just go for a new integrated altogether along the lines of an RA-10 or Arcam A19.

If you do look at upgrading your speakers, which will give you the biggest upgrade/sound difference IMO, then see after if you still want/need to add a subwoofer.

Bi-amping is ok but I'm not sure your current speakers would see much benefit from adding a power amp and going down that route I'm afraid.
 
I pretty much would agree with ArcamBoy above...

The only caveat I would add is that if you could get a RB02 or even the older RB971 for not much money which you could try and sell on with little financial risk.
 
I agree that bi-amp would yield little value in performance gain, the speakers are two way and reasonable efficient, tweeters need little power to be well driven.

I'm not sure I agree getting a revision of the same speaker is money particularly well spent either, an improvement yes but not profound, you'll be speaking money on a shiny new thing rather than a massive upgrade.

It's not always what people want to hear when they've got a few hundred quid and have an itch to scratch but when you've got a well balanced system upgrades mean spending considerably more money than the items they replace, that or buying on the used market.

The likes of the PMC DB1s canvas had for not too much second hand and would be a step up, even better the longer transmission line floor standing version the GBs.

If you'd rather not but used I'd just hold on to your money and wait to you can spend a bit more or just enjoy what you have.
 
Keep saving until you can buy the best speakers you can realistically afford that sound great with your amp.

Then just buy music.

In my humble opinion, and speaking from experience of a sub with standmount speakers for music, the sound quality was rubbish!

Tin hat at the ready:D
 
The sound of 2.1 often does sound rubbish, usually because people insist on buying subs which cater to an unrealistic price point or they are poorly set up, both are incredibly common.

I own a BK XXLS400 and it can detract from the overall sound in 2.1 but it is a good sub. For films with a dedicated LFE channel you can hear what it is capable of but get it wrong on the cross over and gain and it will smudge the midrange, take sparkle off the top end and have and adverse effects on perceived PRAT.

I don't really need one for music now but a little care hoes a long way, if you expect to fit and play with everything you had plus I extended bass forget it, unless you get very lucky.
 
I fully accept what you say bluedroog.

My experience was with a £300 (BK XLS200) sub with £700 standmounts. The sub didn't do it for music. When I upgraded the speakers to £1,800 models, it was frankly embarrassing.

Now, some may say "if you had a £1,000+ sub it would be different". Probably, but I still reckon I'd be better off with £2,800 speakers. Also, there's the problem of positioning. I fully accept that my sub may not have been in the optimal position in my room. But, like many people I guess, I have to share the room with my family for a variety of purposes - a hifi demo room it is not.

NB: I'm just talking about for music here, not films. The extra low end was nice on the occasional film, but I've not really missed it. Neither did the missus - then again, there's not a lot of low-end in Downton Abbbey! That's me in the spare room if she reads this.:D
 
For music you perhaps need two subs.

The claim is sub bass is non directional but there is a lot of contradictory evidence there...
 
I fully accept what you say bluedroog.

My experience was with a £300 (BK XLS200) sub with £700 standmounts. The sub didn't do it for music. When I upgraded the speakers to £1,800 models, it was frankly embarrassing.

Now, some may say "if you had a £1,000+ sub it would be different". Probably, but I still reckon I'd be better off with £2,800 speakers. ...

NB: I'm just talking about for music here, not films. The extra low end was nice on the occasional film, but I've not really missed it. ...:D

I have the same feeling. The considerable price of a Sub could just as easily go for better front speakers.

I do recognize that there is a time and place for a Sub in music, but it must be a very carefully chosen Sub to assure that it is clear and tight, with no flab or drone.

Most certainly there is a time and place for a Sub in a Movie system. In fact, it is something of a must. Though the dynamics are different in movies, so a good Movie Sub is not necessarily a good Music Stereo Sub. But I get very good results without one in a stereo system, though I confess, I'm using 4 Main speakers. That gives me a +6db boost in output.

Some claim that Sealed Subwoofers are the cleanest and tightest. Though equally others deny that.

But, it is a rare Sub at a high price that will blend with front speakers to perfection for a seamless sound system. Especially true in a Stereo that doesn't have Electronic Bass Management.

There is a way to blend a Sub without bass management, but the crossover has to be pretty low, roughly where the Front speaker start to drop off. I don't know what speakers you have, but that is roughly in the 30hz to perhaps as high as 40hz range. That leaves the Sub with a single octave from 20hz to 40hz, though you don't really have that much content in normal music that low.

If you are going to blend a Sub with quality Front speaker primarily for music, then you need to choose the Sub very very carefully. Equally, you have to tune it very very carefully.

Steve/bluewzard
 
If your going to add a subwoofer then you have to check a few things first.

How do your speakers roll of the bass.
Do the roll off naturally or not. If it "not" then give it up as a bad job as it will never work. The reason behind this is that you cannot set the crossover and level right.

Set-up is different to an AV solution too. If set up correctly you shouldn't even know its there unless you unplug it. If you can tell if running, unless you've unplugged it, its set-up incorrectly.

Make sure you also have one that has the pace and dynamics of your stereo amplifier. Ideally choose one that fires downward in-place of forward. Also ensure you can connect it with a hi-level input and check to see whether it has full phase, level and crossover control.

If it doesn't meet these small criteria, then your going to have a lot of fun and never get it just right.

Make sure when setting it up, you use the right material too, as drum and bass will never work. Organ or Double Bass work perfectly when integrating a woofer into a stereo system.

Placement in the room is also critical. If its in the wrong place, it will boom and mask musical information.

Finally, if the bass wobbles, it could be that the control of your equipment is not good enough to control it. It could also be that it's just a poorer recording. if so, just switch the sub off if you know its going to wobble.

Follow these simple guide lines and you can fully integrate a subwoofer into a stereo system if you want a little more out of your music. Remember, if you get it right, you will gain more frequencies across then entire spectrum with more musical detail in the higher, middle and lower musical frequencies.

Regards, Shane.
 

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