Help with what Atmos Ceiling Speakers to get?

obilby

Active Member
Hi Everyone hope you can give me some advise again, I’m currently looking at having ceiling Atmos speakers installed for a new setup as I believe this will be far better than my previous up firers for the front (to be honest never really heard them) but my problem is there are so many different models out there I don’t know where to start, I didn’t want to go to expensive (probably Max £500 a pair but if cheaper great) but if you could steer me in the right direction that would be great.

I was thinking of either going with the brands Kef or Monitor Audio as my current upgrade Plan is getting Kef Rs for the Front and centre with Monitor Audio Silver FX for Surrounds so I though either of both brand would compliment one of them.

Also I’ve currently got SVS Prime Elevation which are down firing for my rear Atmos, would this being a different brand make things odd? Should I get rid of them and have 4 in ceiling speakers? My sofa is about 60cm from the rear wall (and I cant change this) would 4 be overkill? Should I just get rid of the SVS and have only front Atmos ceiling speakers? Ideally it would be less work if I didn’t have to remove the rear SVS down firers but all in all I want to get the best sound.

I’ve added a photo of the rear of my room to show my current rear Atmos and roughly where I am going to install the front ceiling speakers if this is of any help.

Sorry for all the questions just want to do this right if you think its worth it? Many thanks.
 

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ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I feel the reason why no-one has replied is that you are already using rear speakers which are set to high to enjoy Atmos (in fact many people would use those as Atmos speakers). So, if you was to fit those In-Ceiling speakers in the location drawn whilst keeping the rears where they are, you would have two sets of speakers both fighting to fill the same area of space.

My suggestion would be to add another pair of on-wall speakers and repurpose the SVS's for Atmos duties meaning you wouldn't need to cut any holes in the ceiling or use then as front atmos duties

If you did decide to use in-ceiling, then ensure you use 8" over the smaller 6"/6.5" driver options as this is where most people say they notice a difference. This is also more important than bothering about which manufacturer to use in truth as the speakers you use for Atmos don't need to be the same as your mains or surrounds

For on-wal, you could look at Dali Oberon On-Walls as a suggestion for new rear surrounds

This should then give you the enough space between the speakers to hear sound coming from above your head and sounds also being projected to your ears from behind

Now for location, without seeing a floorplan, it's a little hard to specify, but I would say that the SVS's would ideally be situated on the side walls near to where you would have located the in-ceiling speakers with the rears placed either on the rear (not ideal) or maybe also on the side wall but closer to the rear of the room (again not brilliant as the settee isn't in a great location creating a compromised setup)
 

obilby

Active Member
I feel the reason why no-one has replied is that you are already using rear speakers which are set to high to enjoy Atmos (in fact many people would use those as Atmos speakers). So, if you was to fit those In-Ceiling speakers in the location drawn whilst keeping the rears where they are, you would have two sets of speakers both fighting to fill the same area of space.

My suggestion would be to add another pair of on-wall speakers and repurpose the SVS's for Atmos duties meaning you wouldn't need to cut any holes in the ceiling or use then as front atmos duties

If you did decide to use in-ceiling, then ensure you use 8" over the smaller 6"/6.5" driver options as this is where most people say they notice a difference. This is also more important than bothering about which manufacturer to use in truth as the speakers you use for Atmos don't need to be the same as your mains or surrounds

For on-wal, you could look at Dali Oberon On-Walls as a suggestion for new rear surrounds

This should then give you the enough space between the speakers to hear sound coming from above your head and sounds also being projected to your ears from behind

Now for location, without seeing a floorplan, it's a little hard to specify, but I would say that the SVS's would ideally be situated on the side walls near to where you would have located the in-ceiling speakers with the rears placed either on the rear (not ideal) or maybe also on the side wall but closer to the rear of the room (again not brilliant as the settee isn't in a great location creating a compromised setup)
Thankyou for getting back to me, the SVS are already being used as my rear Atmos but as of now I no longer have any front Atmos (or any speakers now) which is why I wanted to go down the in ceiling route, and I believe front atmos is more important than rear? I really like the look of having the ceiling speakers rather than mounting them and I have been told they are for the best experience, I don't mind if I have to get rid of the SVS and just and front ceiling Atmos just want the best sound at the end of the day.

My front atmos used to be upfireing but I never really heard them, unfortunately I cant have any speakers on the sides as one side of the room is a door (I've take a photo of the whole room so it gives you an idea of size etc) on the back wall for my surrounds I was hoping to get the MA Silver FX, really liked them when demoed and like the idea of bipole.
 

obilby

Active Member
Sorry forgot to add photo of my living room
PXL_20220222_161643724.MP.jpg
 

gibbsy

Moderator
How close is the seating to the rear wall? The rearmost ceiling Atmos speakers will need to be slightly behind the sofa but not too close to the rear wall in a 5.1.4 set up.
 

ShanePJ

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If you wish to run down the in-ceiling, I cannot complain as they're the most prefered option by all with upward being the least favourite and downward firing heights being the preferred compromise

I would move the rear Atmos in-ceiling speakers more in line with the settee (this is as close as you are going to get these as they should be behind the settee - but others have had to make this comprise and it seems to be a comfortable one) and place the fronts where it Dolby recommend. Using the FX speakers is not the correct option, but if you have heard them and enjoy the sound they generate, then trust your own ears (the reason why they are not the correct option is they remove the focused driver solution as they spread the sound around the rear part of the room (which I prefer to))
 

obilby

Active Member
How close is the seating to the rear wall? The rearmost ceiling Atmos speakers will need to be slightly behind the sofa but not too close to the rear wall in a 5.1.4 set up.
Its currently about 30cm from the back wall but could come out at a push to about 60cm (see above photo) I did have bookshelf speakers on stands behind before (Focal Chora) but stupidly bought a corner sofa that takes up the whole living room. I really love the look of the in ceiling speakers its just whether both front and back will be overkill?
 

obilby

Active Member
If you wish to run down the in-ceiling, I cannot complain as they're the most prefered option by all with upward being the least favourite and downward firing heights being the preferred compromise

I would move the rear Atmos in-ceiling speakers more in line with the settee (this is as close as you are going to get these as they should be behind the settee - but others have had to make this comprise and it seems to be a comfortable one) and place the fronts where it Dolby recommend. Using the FX speakers is not the correct option, but if you have heard them and enjoy the sound they generate, then trust your own ears (the reason why they are not the correct option is they remove the focused driver solution as they spread the sound around the rear part of the room (which I prefer to))
Another reason I quite like the FX is due to the slim line nature of them would you recommend more of a normal speaker like the Dali for the surrounds over the bipoles? Sorry to sound a bit stupid but what is the focused driver and what would I be missing say over the Dali Oberon On-Walls?

I will defiantly go for 8" would you have any recommendations? would I be better just getting rid of the SVS and have just the one set of fronts? as you say they are both within a small space of each other and could be both fighting to fill the same area of space.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
just whether both front and back will be overkill?
It's not overkill, it's simply better. If you can accommodate them then that's certainly the route to take. If not then you position the two Atmos speakers roughly above where your knees would be when seated at the main listening point. They should, as would four, be positioned inline with the front left and right speakers.
 

obilby

Active Member
It's not overkill, it's simply better. If you can accommodate them then that's certainly the route to take. If not then you position the two Atmos speakers roughly above where your knees would be when seated at the main listening point. They should, as would four, be positioned inline with the front left and right speakers.
I completely agree and ideally would like to have four. Would you think I could accommodate this with my current layout even at a squeeze?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
If you pull the sofa forward so that you have 60cm, it's possible. The rear Atmos should go 50cm from the rear wall with the front pair maybe a third of the way towards the TV. Get ceiling speakers that have the ability to angle the tweeters.
 

obilby

Active Member
If you pull the sofa forward so that you have 60cm, it's possible. The rear Atmos should go 50cm from the rear wall with the front pair maybe a third of the way towards the TV. Get ceiling speakers that have the ability to angle the tweeters.
Ill ideally like to give that a go. For the rears would you recommend having 2 rear in ceiling speakers 50cm from the wall gettting rid of the SVS or would the same scenario still work with the SVS where they are and still having the front a third of the way towards the TV? When you say the ability to angle the tweeters do you mean like the Monitor Audio C265FX? Many thanks for your advise.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
If the SVS are surrounds then they do have be brought down to just above a seated head height. You don't want any of the base speakers too high. There must be a substantial space between the base level and the Atmos level.
 

obilby

Active Member
If the SVS are surrounds then they do have be brought down to just above a seated head height. You don't want any of the base speakers too high. There must be a substantial space between the base level and the Atmos level.
I think the SVS are going, and I'm going to get four in ceiling, bring the sofa out a bit as you say put the rears 50cm from the back wall which is just a tad behind the sofa with the fronts (looking at the Dolby guide) about 70cm away from my knee. On the top of your head is there any speakers you can recommend it's a bit of a minefield? And with speakers that you can angle the tweeters I'm guess from the rear they would be pointed towards the back for your head and at the front towards your face?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
My Atmos is upfiring KEF speakers and has been since the R50s were released, that's got to be six years or more. I don't think my wife would let me anywhere near the ceiling with my DIY skills, my favourite tool in work was a large axe. I was a dab hand at smashing down doors.;)

I do know that the KEF speakers are very well reviewed and quite popular with Forum members.
 

obilby

Active Member
My Atmos is upfiring KEF speakers and has been since the R50s were released, that's got to be six years or more. I don't think my wife would let me anywhere near the ceiling with my DIY skills, my favourite tool in work was a large axe. I was a dab hand at smashing down doors.;)

I do know that the KEF speakers are very well reviewed and quite popular with Forum members.

Very similar to what my line work was 🤔 but called a big key 😀. All being well I found someone to do it for a very reasonable price, I couldn't do it to save my life one hole would end up being bigger than the other or I would cut through the electrics! I'm definitely thinking on the Kef side of things as you say they are very well reviewed and it's the Kef's I'm getting for the front and centre channels it's just whether I could get away with some of the kef's that are around the £250 mark rather than the £500 mark each! Thank you for all your help and advice very much appreciated!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
If you keep the SVS Prime Elevations then lower them to seated ear height (Surround L/R) and mount them side ways each side so they fire inward both.

image


Like this the lower ones:

Dali-Alteco-Niek-2-1024x576.jpg


dali-alteco-stereo-in-side-position.jpg
 

obilby

Active Member
If you keep the SVS Prime Elevations then lower them to seated ear height (Surround L/R) and mount them side ways each side so they fire inward both.

image


Like this the lower ones:

Dali-Alteco-Niek-2-1024x576.jpg


dali-alteco-stereo-in-side-position.jpg
That's not a bad idea and didn't realise they could be used like that, I was looking at going for the MA Silver FX for the surrounds do you this would be a better idea?
 
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obilby

Active Member
That's not a bad idea didn't realise they could be used like that, do you this that's better than going for the MA Silver FX?
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Silver FXs gives you more dispersed soundfield so they are less directional which is beneficial with the speakers close by. However you need to leave at least 1feet to side wall. 299£/pair is dirt cheap as they being discontinued. Just need to sell the SVS Primes then, but they likely go fast if you don´t ask crazy price. Those are good speakers, but also very bulky on wall and black vs. white wall is never the best idea. White FXs would blend much better and white trunking to hide wires. 👌


 

Yorkshire AV

Active Member
AVForums Sponsor
I was going to suggest - the Silver FX would be ideal for your rear surrounds here and then look to move to some Monitor Audio in-ceiling (the C265-IDC) for your ATMOS.

A quality 5.1.2 solution is better than awkwardly placed 5.1.4 :)

A pair of "top middle" speakers would go forward of the seating position slightly, ideally inline with your front left and right speakers.



A little video on installing them in a finished property:

 

obilby

Active Member
Silver FXs gives you more dispersed soundfield so they are less directional which is beneficial with the speakers close by. However you need to leave at least 1feet to side wall. 299£/pair is dirt cheap as they being discontinued. Just need to sell the SVS Primes then, but they likely go fast if you don´t ask crazy price. Those are good speakers, but also very bulky on wall and black vs. white wall is never the best idea. White FXs would blend much better and white trunking to hide wires. 👌



That's exactly the offer I've seen (I want to get them at that price, but my wife wants black which are no longer available in the 6g, but I'm going to try and win this argument lol) I think with the placement I have in mind there will definitely be at least a 1 foot gap to the wall, the other side there is no wall so no issues, when I listened to them a while back I really liked them especially with sofa being close by! Got the trunking in place so should be quite easy, I believe they have got to be slightly higher than if I just had bookshelf speakers behind? My parents would love Atmos so would give them the SVS.
 

obilby

Active Member
I was going to suggest - the Silver FX would be ideal for your rear surrounds here and then look to move to some Monitor Audio in-ceiling (the C265-IDC) for your ATMOS.

A quality 5.1.2 solution is better than awkwardly placed 5.1.4 :)

A pair of "top middle" speakers would go forward of the seating position slightly, ideally inline with your front left and right speakers.



A little video on installing them in a finished property:


They look good, I think the speakers I go for in ceiling will either be MA or Kef as I feel one brand will kind of match the front or surrounds, I'm still pondering on whether 2 or 4? , 4 could be overkill but don't want to regret it if I don't do it, have been looking at moving the sofa forward a bit with a 60cm gap from the rear of the wall to the back of the sofa, still not sure if that's a to much of a small gap to have 4 in (with the front 2 about 70cm from my knees).

100% on the MA Silver FX just live the look of them.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
That's exactly the offer I've seen (I want to get them at that price, but my wife wants black which are no longer available in the 6g, but I'm going to try and win this argument lol) I think with the placement I have in mind there will definitely be at least a 1 foot gap to the wall, the other side there is no wall so no issues, when I listened to them a while back I really liked them especially with sofa being close by! Got the trunking in place so should be quite easy, I believe they have got to be slightly higher than if I just had bookshelf speakers behind? My parents would love Atmos so would give them the SVS.

Don´t put them much higher over seated ear height cause it beats the purpose then for atmos. I mean both effects coming high up, no separation. You need to move the couch forward if you go with .4 atmos and overall i believe the system sounds better.

This could be game changer for you if you didn´t yet think about. The Silver 6G white has black grilles so if your wife feels the bare white is not good then maybe you could keep the grilles on and they would become almost black then. 😁

ma_silver-fx_iso_white_gr.jpg
 

obilby

Active Member
Don´t put them much higher over seated ear height cause it beats the purpose then for atmos. I mean both effects coming high up, no separation. You need to move the couch forward if you go with .4 atmos and overall i believe the system sounds better.

This might be game changer for you if you didn´t yet think about. The Silver 6G white has black grilles so if your wife feels the bare white is not good then maybe you could keep the grilles on and they would become almost black then. 😁

ma_silver-fx_iso_white_gr.jpg
Ok that makes sense so if I install them on the wall if the bottom of the Speaker is in line at ear hight would that be about right? (I know the manual say higher but with the Atmos you make 100% sense)

Ideally if I'm going to get the ceiling speakers I would love 4, makes sense to get it all done with the mess it entails at the same time, as I said to Gibbsy if I bring the sofa out a bit to about 60cm and put the rears 50cm from the back wall and then according to the Dolby guide put the fronts about 70cm away from my knee position surely this could work 😀 The white Silver FX is now apparently a win win at that price 😊
 

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