help with sacd and dvd a playback

kdwg1308

Active Member
hi all. i am a first time poster and need some help with a sacd-dvd audio issue.

my kit is a marantz sr6005, marantz mm8003 power amp, marantz sacd 8003 player, marantz bd5004 and a denon dvd 1930. i know it looks like i am a marantz fan boy but i am not, its just that those were the ones i liked when i auditioned them. didn't get them all at the same time either.
anyway i have a couple of sacds and i listen to them through the marantz in 2 channel and they are great. but the denon should play them in multi channel but nothing comes through! it plays ok but no sound! i don't have any dvd audio yet but i would like to get a few for christmas with a few more sacds but not if they won't play. the denon does play themas well but the amp doesn't seem to be for it.

any help would be much appreciated

ken
 

unique

Moderator
do you have the cd player connected to the amp with 3 pairs of stereo RCA phono jacks, which you need for multichannel sound, or do you have connected via digital optical or coax? as you can only play stereo via spdif
 

kdwg1308

Active Member
hi, thanks for speedy reply. i have tried both the coax and digital. now i know why it won't work!
i am sure i have some phono some where so will dig them out and try it.
thanks again.
ken
 

Theo Maxtible

Well-known Member
That's exactly one of the problems I had when I tried to play my first SACD about 4 years ago on my Arcam DV137. As unique pointed out, you will need to use the analogue outputs rather than conventional digital connections. By the way, you should be able to play DVD-As over dig-coax or optical, but you will compromise the quality. I'm not familiar with your player, but if you have 8 analogue outputs (and the corresponding number of inputs on your amp), you might wish to consider having 4 pairs of analogue cables. That is what I have between my player and amp, which allows me to choose how I play stereo-only SACDs/DVD-As - or which type of audio FX version I use on my amp. Not everyone is interested in such things, but often knowing these options are available is the key.

I hope you enjoy listening to your DVD-As and SACDs. Good luck:thumbsup:
 

unique

Moderator
That's exactly one of the problems I had when I tried to play my first SACD about 4 years ago on my Arcam DV137. As unique pointed out, you will need to use the analogue outputs rather than conventional digital connections. By the way, you should be able to play DVD-As over dig-coax or optical, but you will compromise the quality. I'm not familiar with your player, but if you have 8 analogue outputs (and the corresponding number of inputs on your amp), you might wish to consider having 4 pairs of analogue cables. That is what I have between my player and amp, which allows me to choose how I play stereo-only SACDs/DVD-As - or which type of audio FX version I use on my amp. Not everyone is interested in such things, but often knowing these options are available is the key.

I hope you enjoy listening to your DVD-As and SACDs. Good luck:thumbsup:

yeah, usually you need to connect 1x RCA for stereo and then 3x RCA for the surround, for playing stereo cd or multichannel sacd/dvda, and then connect by optical/coax digital to play DTS and dolby digital and LPCM. personally i would play stereo via digital too

whilst many/most/all dvd audio can be played in multichannel via the digital output, this is only via a lossy format such as DTS or DD, the lossless MLP soundtrack can only be output in multichannel via the analogue RCA jacks - that is unless you have a swanky universal player that can output via hdmi, and you have an hdmi amp. the reason being is that the standard optical/coax spdif bandwidth isn't great enough to carry lossless multichannel, it can either carry lossless stereo or lossy multichannel. hdmi has a bigger bandwidth to carry more data. there aren't many universal players that can play dvda and sacd via hdmi for lossless multichannel, certainly no cheap ones that i know about, but i haven't looked at this for a while
 

Theo Maxtible

Well-known Member
yeah, usually you need to connect 1x RCA for stereo and then 3x RCA for the surround, for playing stereo cd or multichannel sacd/dvda, and then connect by optical/coax digital to play DTS and dolby digital and LPCM. personally i would play stereo via digital too

whilst many/most/all dvd audio can be played in multichannel via the digital output, this is only via a lossy format such as DTS or DD, the lossless MLP soundtrack can only be output in multichannel via the analogue RCA jacks - that is unless you have a swanky universal player that can output via hdmi, and you have an hdmi amp. the reason being is that the standard optical/coax spdif bandwidth isn't great enough to carry lossless multichannel, it can either carry lossless stereo or lossy multichannel. hdmi has a bigger bandwidth to carry more data. there aren't many universal players that can play dvda and sacd via hdmi for lossless multichannel, certainly no cheap ones that i know about, but i haven't looked at this for a while

I'm not very au-fait with all the hi-fi that's out on the market - and I'm not very technical either. I must admit though, I find it all very interesting - if only I had the time to learn about all these different audio formats.

On another interesting note, although I am able to pass hi-res MCH audio over HDMI on my DV137, Arcam actually recommend using the analogue outputs instead. I'm not sure why this is, but curiously both Denon and Meridian also don't appear to "trust" HDMI for hi-res audio, instead using their own proprietary digital connections as the HDMI alternative.
 

kdwg1308

Active Member
well i tried it with the phonos last night and still no luck. i can't find the manual for the denon so downloaded it today in work and seemingly it needs to be pure direct mode. will try it tonight.it will play the dvd a will go through the hdmi though.i haven't any to try it with just yet.
its all very confusing and i wish i could find the time for someone explain it all to me properly.

unless the sound quality is vastly different i would stick with the 2 ch sacd with the marantz but i won't to try the multi channel first. i really want the ziggy stardust sacd and a few dvd audios . if they match up to the couple of sacds i have at the moment i can increase my collection.
not sure where the dvd 1930 would sit budget wise, think i paid about £150 for it. depends on your outlook as to whats cheap and whats not really i suppose. it was a good player and i was very happy with it for films but not for cds. never tried it with sacds.

thanks again and will keep you posted.
ken
 

russ123

Active Member
Also there are usually various options on the disc, there will be a stereo track, 5.1 track etc. You need to make sure you have a multi-channel selected, some may default to stereo.
Not all SACD are multi-channel as some are just enhanced stereo tracks. Ziggy Stardust has 5.1 on it though (Lets Dance and Scary Monsters are just Stereo).
I've a different denon than you but it does clearly show the channels in use on the player display which should help you.
For dvd audio it can be a bit of a faff as sometimes you need to go through the menus of the disc on a screen to work out what to do, then turn the screen off afterwards to enjoy the sound!
If you think this is hard, you should try setting it up over HDMI :laugh:
 

overkill

Distinguished Member
When you download the manual, see how the multichannel options are supposed to be set up. On some players it requires both the disc and player to be set up to use 5.1 etc. They don't always do it automatically just because you've selected that option on the disc menu.

Just a thought.
 

kdwg1308

Active Member
Well I give up now. Can't get it to work at all. Is the stereo ziggy sacd layer any good? I have a couple of different cd versions and they are ok but wonder how much better the sacd is?

Ken
 

Theo Maxtible

Well-known Member
Well I give up now. Can't get it to work at all. Is the stereo ziggy sacd layer any good? I have a couple of different cd versions and they are ok but wonder how much better the sacd is?

Ken

The solution to your problem must be extremely close - and unless you have faulty equipment, very simple to overcome. Of course, it's easy for someone else to say, but I was having some frustrations when I first had my Arcam DV137 and AVR350. I did read my manuals very thoroughly, but had an uncommunicative dealer which was a pity.

Anyway, you should persist. I do not own the SACD you mention, but from the experience I have from my collection of SACDs, they are generally head and shoulders better than their CD counterparts. I assume that you're not even able to play the CD layer of this SACD? Is your dealer able to offer some advice?

One thing I would recommend, is make a detailed diagram of the back ends of your players and amp, and show each and every input/output that is being used and how, i.e. with which type of connection. This is what I did with my Arcam kit, as it was a useful reference tool for me anyway, and it was also very practical when I visited a local Audio T dealer to discuss my problems. I copied the backs of the player and amp from the online user manual from the Arcam website, expanded it somewhat, and marked with various coloured highlighters all of the connections from/to DV137, AVR350 and my TV.

I cannot see how you'll be disappointed when you finally get your kit up and running and able to play SACDs and DVD-As. Even with very ordinary speakers such as I have, the difference over most CDs is extrememly easy to detect. Good luck.
 

technoman28

Well-known Member
I have to have my Sony amp on "Multi Channel In" to playback from the 6 analogue inputs, it will not automatically go into this mode. Having a quick look at the manual (always seems to be a last resort for me), you have this option on your amp, as said in previous posts, you sometimes need to select from the disc options to get the type of input you want from the player.


Edit:Ignore the picture, never mind RTFM, I should learn to RTFP (the "P" standing for Post!!)

While trying to find a manual to look at for the Denon, came across this http://www.soundandvision.co.uk/dvd/dvd-players/denon-dvd1930-silver
Not a bad price one thinks!
 

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kdwg1308

Active Member
thanks for the encouragement. i will leave it a few days and go back to it at the weekend. i ahve a good relationship with my local sevenoaks guy so will maybe drop in and see him at the weekend. whats really annoying is i feel theres only one thing wrong but i don't know which one. its such a palaver to change anything as the combinations possible are quite a lot. i will run through it again and post to see i am changing settings i don't need to.
thanks again.
ken
 

Theo Maxtible

Well-known Member
It's worth persevering with it, in my opinion.

I can understand how frustrating these things can be. I don't know where you are in life, but I was 50 earlier this year. I sit in front of a computer all day long, and am bombarded often by people phoning/e-mailing/coming into my office - when I come home after a day at work, I struggle to look at an instruction manual , or anything that requires a bit of thought. In short, I'm brain dead! Admittedly, most of my problems were software related, but I was often thinking, "Hell, I just want to connect the thing and play music!"

In addition to that, the thing of getting down on one's knees, getting to the back of the equipment, pulling out leads etc etc.

It's definately worth making the diagrams I suggested, and making as many notes as possible.

If you paid £150 for your Denon DVD1930, it seems to me that you picked up a bargain. Yes - as you say, everything is relative. I paid a 4 figure sum for my Arcam DV137, and am very pleased with it. It seemed a lot of money to me, but to some others, it was a "cheap" piece of kit. I reckon your Denon player offers very good value for money.
 
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kdwg1308

Active Member
i know what you steve. after a hard day clearing up other peoples problems i just want to come home fire up the cd player and chill out.
thanks technoman. interesting that. its not a very well laid out manual and its even worse trying to read the on line version. need to check that out.

ken
 

FeisalK

Active Member
Just to recap

  1. connect the 5.1 analog outputs from the Denon 1930 player to the multichannel input of the Marantz receiver
  2. set up the Denon 1930 to default to
    • the multichannel SACD layer (it'll auto select the next best available layer - SACD stereo, or CD)
    • DVD-Audio layer (it will play the DVD-V layer of a regular DVD)
  3. select the multichannel input on the Marantz
  4. press PLAY :)
 
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kdwg1308

Active Member
ok been waiting on my copy of ziggy to try this again. despite spending most of the weekend at it i still can't get it to work.

as the player is playing the discs there must be a setting wrong so if someone could look through these settings and see if they can shed some light i would be forever grateful.

6 phono leads from dvd to avr.

dvd set to analog
dvd set to pure direct

now what i am not sure of is the pcm, bitstream and dts settings. i have them all on but is this correct?

dvd is also connected by hdmi to the avr so i am assuming that the multi channel is played through the same source input.i have tried all the inputs and nothing. unless i am being even more dumb than usual i can't see a multi channel source input for the analogs


i have listened to the ziggy in stereo sacd on the marantz sacd player and it is fantastic so if it wasn't for the fact that i am stubborn git that doesn't like to be beaten i would let it go.

ken
 

kdwg1308

Active Member
finally got it to work. as i know it would be it was something very stupid. to get the 5.1 inputs to come through there is a 7.1 buttin on the remote. DOH!

after all that the ziggy in multi channel was a bit dissapointing. ordered some DVD A so hope they are better.

anyway thanks for all the help and encouragement.

ken
 

FeisalK

Active Member
Look in the other thread where people recommend SACDs and DVD-Audios

SACD Dark Side of the Moon, Avalon, Brothers in Arms
DVD-A Blue Man Group Audio, any Porcupine Tree release (in Absentia and Deadwing first)
 

kdwg1308

Active Member
Thanks feisalk .I have the dstom so looking forward to trying that. Am also waiting on DVD a of a night at the opera and am hoping to get Joni mitchells both sides now.
Thanks again
Ken
 

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