Help with old house set up

SavorettiMoretti

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Looking for some advice on my set up. As the title suggests I live in an old house with thick walls, it’s a large house so WIFI struggles in every room.

I’ve just upgraded my Sky router to a TP link archer VR400 after numerous connection/drop out issues. It has helped but still struggles for a good connection in certain rooms. I’ve ran some diagnostics and messed around with some of the settings such as channel etc

I’ve got a Sky Q mini box upstairs but when I changed the router I obviously lost the hot spot functionality. Since doing this actually I can see the main box is now showing it’s own SSID?

I’ve got CAT cables from behind the TV where the router is currently situated (and where the phone socket is) down to the cellar which houses a 24 port network switch with various things connected to it (hue, heating, hikvison cctv). I’ve also got a Texecom ricochet alarm which also is connected. so there is a lot going on!

So the question is how and what can help with the signal? I’ve also got the router on a glass tv stand, is this ok? If I was to move it to another room what would I need to do?

TIA
 
You need to consider adding wireless access points in the rooms you use a lot (ideally wired back to your network if you ethernet cabling available). If you want a good value but comprehensive option then consider a system such as Ubiquiti Unifi, although it does need a certain level of knowledge and experience to get it set up most effectively. Their AC Lite units offer the best value and are well suited to most domestic installations, but their is a huge choice if models should you wish to look at the whole range.

If you have cabling available then I would also suggest using wired connections instead of wifi as much as possible, including for Sky Q boxes, so that you leave wifi for devices that cannot run wired network connections. This will ensure you get better performance for your wireless clients, but will still not help your signal issues when trying to use a single wifi access point for the whole house. Deploying additional access points, even if these are basic stand-alone units rather than “managed” systems like Unifi, will then help fix the wifi problems.

In my own setup I have 5 Unifi APs around my house (plus more units in my detached garage and for outdoor use) as I have concrete block walls and a concrete beam/block first floor, and this gives me excellent coverage. I also have an extensive wired network, and go as far as turning off wifi in my Sky Q boxes (in the installer menu) and in my Sonos units as it is not required, therefore preventing their wireless output from creating interference with my wifi system.
 
If you cannot get network cables to mount the APs on the ceiling Ubiquiti also do a nice range of inwall APs that could be installed at plug-socket level. I know that you can mount the circular APs on the wall vertically but their radiation patterns are not optimised for this alignment.

https://www.4gon.co.uk/ubiquiti-unifi-apaciw-in-wall-access-pointubiquiti-unifi-ac-inwall-access-point-uapaciw-p-6920.html

I do prefer these to the ceiling ones actually as they sit nicely next to sockets. Is there a difference in performance?
 
You need to consider adding wireless access points in the rooms you use a lot (ideally wired back to your network if you ethernet cabling available). If you want a good value but comprehensive option then consider a system such as Ubiquiti Unifi, although it does need a certain level of knowledge and experience to get it set up most effectively. Their AC Lite units offer the best value and are well suited to most domestic installations, but their is a huge choice if models should you wish to look at the whole range.

If you have cabling available then I would also suggest using wired connections instead of wifi as much as possible, including for Sky Q boxes, so that you leave wifi for devices that cannot run wired network connections. This will ensure you get better performance for your wireless clients, but will still not help your signal issues when trying to use a single wifi access point for the whole house. Deploying additional access points, even if these are basic stand-alone units rather than “managed” systems like Unifi, will then help fix the wifi problems.

In my own setup I have 5 Unifi APs around my house (plus more units in my detached garage and for outdoor use) as I have concrete block walls and a concrete beam/block first floor, and this gives me excellent coverage. I also have an extensive wired network, and go as far as turning off wifi in my Sky Q boxes (in the installer menu) and in my Sonos units as it is not required, therefore preventing their wireless output from creating interference with my wifi system.

Thanks for the in-depth reply :)

We're starting a large extension in a few weeks time so will certainly provision for running new CAT cables (that was always the idea behind getting the switch in the cellar).

Also the mini box that is currently upstairs will likely move to the new extension so can certainly hard wire this, their will be a TV on the wall so the main Q box is too big to go behind the TV.

Do you need a particular switch for the Unifi APs?

Similar to yourself we're building a detached garage so will need to run cable in there, i've currently got powerline adapters to the shed and then using a sky wireless booster but it's not great if i'm being honest.
 
I do prefer these to the ceiling ones actually as they sit nicely next to sockets. Is there a difference in performance?
Their patterns are slightly different as they are designed to radiate out from the walls but the performance is very good indeed
 
Do you need a particular switch for the Unifi APs?

I don't use Unifi, but I doubt it. A network switch is just there to route ethernet traffic between devices and everybody implements ethernet the same way, so you should be able to plug any ethernet devices into any ethernet switch without having to concern yourself that they are "compatible." The "smart" stuff of managed Wi-Fi systems is done in software of the AP's and/or their management platform.

However, if you are contemplating deploying multiple Wi-Fi AP's' especially if they are Power Over Ethernet (POE) capable, you might consider obtaining a POE capable switch to avail power to all the AP's instead of using a load of POE injectors or power "bricks." It's a bit of a aesthetic and value judgement depending on the type and number of AP's you intend to deploy, versus cost of a new POE capable switch.

If contemplating running in new cabling, we should probably rehearse "AVF Mantra #2" to "always run at least two cables along any given route." It's highly unlikely that a UTP cable will fail in service, but if one does and there is an alternate in situ, you can get back up and running again fairy quickly, whereas if you have a single cable, you are off the air until you rip and replace. It's also surprising how often one finds a use for "just one more" later on. Cable is cheap compared to the hassle and time required to install it.
 
However, if you are contemplating deploying multiple Wi-Fi AP's' especially if they are Power Over Ethernet (POE) capable, you might consider obtaining a POE capable switch to avail power to all the AP's instead of using a load of POE injectors or power "bricks." It's a bit of a aesthetic and value judgement depending on the type and number of AP's you intend to deploy, versus cost of a new POE capable switch.

Really good point, I looked into this when I installed the Hikvision CCTV, ended up using some adapters for this.

If contemplating running in new cabling, we should probably rehearse "AVF Mantra #2" to "always run at least two cables along any given route." It's highly unlikely that a UTP cable will fail in service, but if one does and there is an alternate in situ, you can get back up and running again fairy quickly, whereas if you have a single cable, you are off the air until you rip and replace. It's also surprising how often one finds a use for "just one more" later on. Cable is cheap compared to the hassle and time required to install it.

Completely agree, where i've run new cables to date, I've ran extra ones :)
 
@neilball has made a valid point. Are there AP's with power supplies or do I need to invest in a POE switch?
 
Most Ubiquiti APs will ship with a POE injector (the multipacks dont) which you will use to power each device. I have 4 Ubiquiti APs in my house and 4 POE injectors in my comms cab. I prefer POE injectors over POE switches as they are not a single point of failure for my wifi network. I find POE switches have a higher failure rate than non POE switches.
 
Most Ubiquiti APs will ship with a POE injector (the multipacks dont) which you will use to power each device. I have 4 Ubiquiti APs in my house and 4 POE injectors in my comms cab. I prefer POE injectors over POE switches as they are not a single point of failure for my wifi network. I find POE switches have a higher failure rate than non POE switches.

Cool. I don't think the in wall ones come with them but the AC Lite one does!
 
Do you need a particular switch for the Unifi APs?

No as others have said, however if you do a UniFi then it will integrate into the same management software as the access points. It is worth considering that rather than having multiple different interfaces for control.
 
No as others have said, however if you do a UniFi then it will integrate into the same management software as the access points. It is worth considering that rather than having multiple different interfaces for control.

Sorry for my naivety, i'm not sure what you mean.
 
Sorry for my naivety, i'm not sure what you mean.

Like your ISP router has an admin page where you can configure options. UniFi has a controller app which detects your access points, switches and routers and allows you to control them all from a central web page. The software can run on a number of devices including their own cloud key.
 
Like your ISP router has an admin page where you can configure options. UniFi has a controller app which detects your access points, switches and routers and allows you to control them all from a central web page. The software can run on a number of devices including their own cloud key.
Ah I see yes. I watched a few videos on YouTube earlier.
 
Just catching up with the thread after work...

I have fitted Unifi in-wall HD access points around the house as I already had existing single gang plates with wired ethernet outlets. In my case the back boxes were deep enough to allow my rj45 modules to be in clipped from the faceplates and put inside the back box, with a short patch lead then into the rear of the AP which fixes over the backbox, fully concealing it. I’ve also got some Unifi AC Meah units (usually sold as “external” wifi units) wall-mounted at high level in cupboards as these better suited my fixing location. In my garage I have a ceiling mounted AC lite. In all cases these are powered from a variety of POE switches which are slowly being upgraded to Unifi switches simply for the improved management and configuration options via the Unifi controller software. In my case I have a Cloudkey controller just now.

I prefer to use POE switches rather than injectors as these offer a neater installation and require fewer mains sockets.

Depending on how many POE switch ports you need, and how many require POE or SFP/SFP+ then Unifi switches go from relatively good value to quite expensive by residential standards. Compare them with enterprise grade gear from the major brands and they begin to look like seriously good value!
 
I'm now in a bit of a predicament, I upgraded my Sky router a couple of weeks ago but not really seeing much benefit so debating whether to just send it back.

I had drop outs over WIFI but I also get the same with the TP Link, i'm thinking it's down to my office being on one side of the house and the router being on the other.

I had some powerline adapters knocking around which are connected to the switch down in the cellar, so using them in the office right now with the old sky router hooked back up.

I'm thinking that I should invest in some APs as you guys suggested. My office is currently the babies room so it's not permanent, we'll be converting the loft eventually so i'll be running CAT cable up there from the switch.

As mentioned we'll be starting an extension in a few weeks time and i'll be looking to have mainly wired connections along with an AP in certain rooms.
 
The laws of physics do not change. Changing one brand of wireless router for another generally does very little to improve the wifi as they all operate on similar power levels (without getting into beam forming and 4x4 mimo) and on the same frequencies. More expensive wireless routers have these technologies but they only help a little bit, they are actually designed to increase data throughput or to provide better time-sharing for connected devices

The only 3 ways to really improve wifi are:
1. Increase the power levels - Cannot as these are set by law
2. Put up much bigger or directional aerials - not really practical indoors or for mobile devices
3. Increase the density of the number of places that can provide wifi (Access Points) - this is what we do. Either using mesh or wired APs.
 
The laws of physics do not change. Changing one brand of wireless router for another generally does very little to improve the wifi as they all operate on similar power levels (without getting into beam forming and 4x4 mimo) and on the same frequencies. More expensive wireless routers have these technologies but they only help a little bit, they are actually designed to increase data throughput or to provide better time-sharing for connected devices

The only 3 ways to really improve wifi are:
1. Increase the power levels - Cannot as these are set by law
2. Put up much bigger or directional aerials - not really practical indoors or for mobile devices
3. Increase the density of the number of places that can provide wifi (Access Points) - this is what we do. Either using mesh or wired APs.

Makes sense.

Many people have complained about the stability of the Sky routers but I guess with extra AP's this should be resolved.

I have noticed when switching the routers back and sitting in the same place, the speed over WIFI drops by around 10MB for some reason.
 
People "complain" about every router under the sun, especially the ones their ISP's provide, not being "stable," "dropping the signal," "having known issues" and so on, but largely these are Barnam Statements and so on made by people who are well meaning, but literally have little to no understanding of the basics of how it works, let alone the intricate complexities of the technologies involved.

Of course it's the nature of such things that you only hear from those having difficulties and you hear nothing from the 95% of people for who it all works just fine.

Fortunately in this forum, there are a few "old lags" who've been implementing these sort of systems for a very long time and understand how it (really) works in nauseating levels of detail and hopefully we can steer you right more often than not.

Wi-Fi is particularly fickle and fundamentally unstable and unreliable. (Lay) people especially do tend to rather obsess over the "strength" of radio energy transmissions from AP-to-client (and never the other way around) as if it's the only factor that matters. It's not, it's arguably not even the most important factor (signal to noise (SNR) could be argued to be more important.)

As Mushii points out, much more succinctly than I manage to do, Wi-Fi transmit power is limited by law and most kit is and always has been at or close to the permitted max. (it's only a 1/10th of a watt or so - by design it's deliberately quiet.) I've been using sound as a metaphor or late, so just like sound if communicating peers A and B are already shouting as loud as permitted and cannot have a conversation with saying "pardon, can you repeat that" a lot, speaking slowly (to improve diction) then there's no other option but to get them closer together so they can hear each other better. This is what we achieve by putting up additional AP's closer to where the clients are - we effectively move the communicating peers closer together.

As ever, the "trick" is how we achieve the backhaul links between the AP's and the rest of the (much more reliable and faster) wired network. "Proper" wired ethernet backhaul are fastest and most reliable. If ethernet backhauls cannot be achieved for any reason, then there's other alternatives using things like HomePlugs, Wi-Fi, Lasers (yes really!) and so on, but they tend to be "less good" than ethernet backhauls.
 
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Router stability compared to wifi stability are 2 different things, which are we talking about here ?

Drop in speed maybe down to individual aerial configuration and the patterns of radiation.
 
I think this thread has taught me that WIFI isn't the primary solution and that where possible devices should be wired.

I've been doing plenty of tests since I put the old router back in and actually using powerline adapters i'm getting not far off what is going direct into the router. We had the house rewired so that could be the reason.

As mentioned, more longer term i'll install some AP's and run new cable. I've read the CAT5e should be more than sufficient.
 
I think this thread has taught me that WIFI isn't the primary solution and that where possible devices should be wired.

Indeed. Better still, the more stuff we can get off Wi-Fi and onto wired, the more "air time" it leaves available for the remaining devices that are more convenient to use on Wi-Fi - the phones, tablets, laptops, etc.

Way back when Wi-Fi was fairly new, a few corporate "bean counters" got very excited about Wi-Fi because they mistakenly thought it meant they could have networking "without the expense of the cabling and all the network switches." Until is was pointed out to them that we'd still need lots of cabling and switches to connect up all the Wi-Fi Access Points - often "new" cabling as the ideal place for the Wi-Fi AP's (e.g. the ceilings) didn't have any incumbent wires. And the performance hit would be horrific back in the days when state of the art Wi-Fi was 54mbps (I tested it, it was dreadful.)

Presently in "office" type deployments we still try to get as much as possible onto the wires - essential everything that doesn't "move" (and/or where reliability and/or speed is important,) - the servers, printer/copiers, phones, desktop PC's, fire alarms, CCTV, etc. etc. and leave Wi-Fi for the mobiles, laptops, tablets, eftpos terminals and so on where it's most useful.
 
I went to add some extra sockets into my main switch at the weekend and to my disgust found it FULL. How did that happen? I have about 40 devices hanging off my wifi as well. Time for a strategy rethink
 

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