Help with Goo paint, and thinning, also how to apply

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by only4fudge, Nov 3, 2004.

  1. only4fudge

    only4fudge
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    Hi everyone, im new to this forum but am very knowledgable when it comes to video projection. But I lack in the area of projection screens

    I would like to know what I need to apply on my canvas material I use for projecting the image.

    I did some research on what to apply but heres the scenario

    I have a large 72x110" screen, I plan on using 80% of it, and leave the rest on the dark material ( havent found out what I needed yet )

    I plan on painting on 3-5 coats of the " goo " stuff located here
    http://www.mountsandmore.com/prods/...at/Goo-Systems/0C3830/0PGS1001.htm#additional

    Again, its a white matte canvas material, that I plan on painting over, and mounting on my wall. Because I wish to roll this up in the future, and move it around a lot.

    I was also wondering if the " GOO " stuff is flexible/elastic I dont want something solid, and having roll it up, have sheets and shards of it on my carpet.

    I thought about using 3+ coats of uv paint, but not sure if it would be a good idea. White uv, or purple so I dont know, I would like to get some questions or opinions stated before further ado.

    Some advice would be greatly appreciated , I have the materials to mount the screen, but nothing to apply to the screen , so any opinions would be great.

    What I use :
    Benq Q 8220 dlp projector
    1280x700/600 native ( its 1200x something )
    2000:1 contrast
    1200+ lumens i think

    great projector

    Thanks in advance everyone
     
  2. MississippiMan

    MississippiMan
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    Goo will not wear well in a roll Up situation when applied to an absorbtive surface. If you do decide to use the stuff, you MUST seal that canvass surface completely with a "Sealer / Primer".

    Then apply your CRT Base Coat via HVLP Gun. DO NOT attempt to roll or two things will plauge you.

    1.Extreame difficulty getting a smooth, non textured finish.

    2.No way will you have enough if you buy only one Litre of each, Base Coat and Top Coat and 3-5 coats is excessive anyway. Two coats of Base, followed by 2 coats of Top Coat.
    Use of the Primer / Sealer will help prevent the Goo from running Dry.

    3. Unless you do spray, and do it just about perfectly, any build-up will surely Crack if the screen surface becomes compressed at all along a corner area.

    Goo is a good product, but like using a Bently to go Road Rallying, there are better / more affordable choices to consider.

    Remember. SPRAY. Don't Roll, unless you have no other choice, and if then, weep.

    But good luck! And remember to apply every bit of the Goo Base Coat. The Top Coat is very translucent, and serves primarily to up the gain coming off the Base Coat. :lesson:
     
  3. only4fudge

    only4fudge
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    wow that is awful, then I cannot roll up the screen then...

    But do you think its worth applying? ( goo )

    What type of paint primer do I use? Which do you recommend that is

    I ll purchase the goo, if I find that it makes a drastic difference as far as quality is concerned.

    I did plan on moving the screen downstairs and upstairs, so portability is one of my main requests.

    I guess I have but one choice to leave that screen stuck on that wall...

    So its prime, goo, goo, prime?

    I hope that stuff doesnt smell really bad, because my room isnt that well ventilated, The heat caused by the projector itself, sometimes stay inside the room.

    Now that I rearranged the room, the projector sits near the window so it can breathe better.

    So, any list of types of paint primer i should use would be greatly appreciated
     
  4. only4fudge

    only4fudge
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    What kind of paint, or should I Say, material do they use for the pre rolled screens?

    I thought those were cool enough to use, seeing how u can roll them up, and it cannot wrinkle. Also, the back piece, what material is the back black piece do you know?

    Thanks again
     
  5. MississippiMan

    MississippiMan
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    If you can find what is called "Black Out" material at a Fabric shop, that would be far better than Canvass. It has a smooth surface that requires no sealing. It can be streched tightly across a frame you make. Painted properly, it can be rolled, but unless you can do it well, the screen will always be in jepordy everytime you roll it up & move it. On a frame it will move so much better.

    Spraying is worth the effort, no matter what paint you use. Goo is good, but it's properties offen accentuate SDE effect with non-High Deffinition resolution PJs. It does have a slightly increased gain over a 'pure white', but not enough IMO to warrant the cost or application woes. Like many "Sold Complete" DIY screen paints, it all depends on the skill of the user to affect the results so grandly promised by the MFG.

    (BTW Goo? It's a water based latex paint. It won't smell to bad.)

    Once again let me state that Goo IS Good. I personally know the Creator of the stuff, have used it myself, and modeled MississippiMud after Goo CRT White.

    There are no easy DIY screen applications once you progress from "painting a wall". All come with logistics and technical issues of some kind or another. I know how to overcome them all, but seldom care to go down a road were issues become the focus of a project that is supposed to bring joy to one's heart. Oft times, what started out as an "affordable" option.

    If you do not rush into your effort, converse with myself and others within this medium, and make jusdgements based on carefull study of known facts, you should accomplish your goal of getting a great screen for less than Mfg. Do not do this, and you just might wind up posting," This DIY stuff is a waste of time & money!"

    Basically, my presense on the Brit AVS is to accomplish what has been done elseware, educate and help those desiring such. I do indeed have my prefrences and opinions, but rather than foster then on such as you, who already have a course in mind, I prefer to simply help when I can.
     
  6. theritz

    theritz
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    Hi,

    I think you're barking up the wrong tree here.... I'd advise you to make a decision between having a screen that will "roll up", or a fixed screen (whether you use plain blackout cloth, paint it with Goo or any other paint/pixie dust/whatever, or just buy screen material from a manufacturer is neither here nor there). Effectively, if being able to

    is the most important factor, then you are effectively ruling out a diy painted screen surface. If you think you might wnat to move it once (like in a relocation) you might be able to get away with it, but imho it's not a feasible proposition on a regular basis. If you are constrained in budget terms, you could get a roll-up blind made with blackout material relatively inexpesively, or you could just opt for a retractable screen from any of a number of manufacturers to suit your budget.

    If you can accomodate a fixed screen, then away you go - you can have it vanilla blackout material, various composite surfaces (painted or otherwise) you can paint it with Goo or any other of the many diy formulations abounding the net, or you can buy screen material from a manufacturer, whatever.

    Decide the primary factor first - if it has to be rolled up every night or week, then imo diy painting (Goo or anything else) is off the agenda.

    HTH,

    Sean G.
     
  7. only4fudge

    only4fudge
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    Ok,So its confirmed I will leave it stationary, but seeing how I already spent 50+ on the canvas screen, I have no choice but to use it as it is.

    So I can use primer first, then use a few coats of goo right?

    It does tend to move a lot, But I will have it set in stone and brick it to the wall.

    Seeing how I am on a budget, I do plan on purchasing a plastic screen(acrylic) in the near future and paint the transparent paint on one side, and goo on the other. So it would look like a plasma screen. Im sure the quality comes out really fantastic.

    I can put the projector behind the screen, have it project a mirror image, that way, there wouldnt be interference when someone crosses by the projector. I've seen these before, and plan on using them when I can afford it.

    With that aside, back to what I was saying, I will use the prime + goo ( 3+ coats)

    -Scenario -
    -My projection screen material is canvas
    -Bound to 2 wooden rods on each end ( 12' each )
    -Mounted on the ceiling, or wall, I still cannot decide yet
    -2" or so away from the wall/ceiling
    -Projector about 20-26' throw distance
    -Throw image is about 98" diagnal
    -Projection Screen is approximately 26" above ground
    -Reciever,consoles,dvd,vcr, all the devices are located right below the projector ( I had no other place to put it, Well, I did, but this was the best option I had.

    I think thats it, so I will purchase some goo, and primer paint, hope those dont leave a stain in my brain.

    Another question rose up to me, regarding the primer paint, is that the same type of paint they use on the pull down screens?
    I thought that had a really high gain, well it was better than my canvas screen thats for sure. So my question is, would it be best to leave it as primer on the canvas? Or apply some goo?

    So many options...

    MississippiMan : I will follow your guidence to complete this project, and yes, I am in no hurry, the screen is actually the last thing left for me to do, after I complete my audio and video set up. I ll take it step by step, for now I will use the canvas screen, and work on the dream set up later when I win the lottery or something :D:D:D:D

    TheRitz : I also appreciate your input as well, I do like to hear both sides of the story, that way I can get a better understanding as to what I should do. A question about the black out screen, how much would it cost to fit my 110 incher? ( no pun intended ) and does it come in black only? Or grey and other darker colors.

    Thanks for your input guys, I do check this thread regulary
     
  8. only4fudge

    only4fudge
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    I forgot to ask, how do you thin out goo?

    I heard it was a really thick substance, do I just use paint thinner?

    Or how do I make it sprayable via spray bottle, or even a paint gun.

    Coating the screen 3+ means a lot of $$$ to be spent, im sure of it... Hope this is all worth it for a component output projector.

    Does the goo material crack that easily?

    The screen will bend a little ever so often

    cheers
     
  9. MississippiMan

    MississippiMan
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    Use Distilled Water to thin GOO

    NEVER Paint thinner :thumbsdow

    1 part to 5 at most. Or less.

    Power mix it, and use it immediately. If you wait and it seperates, power mix again before use.

    Also, get the paint "warm", that helps a lot with the flow characteristics

    If you spray, cracking seldom will occur. Roll, and it almost assuredly will crack some if over stressed.

    If the paint on the Canvass has effectively sealed the surface and drastically reduced any "weave pattern" use it as your base coat. Goo base coat is really what sets up the reflective properties of any Goo screen, White or Gray. If your current paint has more than 1.0 gain characteristics, it should suffice, or certainly do well as a base for the actual Goo Base coat. :lesson:

    Theritz gives wise counsel, listen to such always.
     
  10. only4fudge

    only4fudge
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    So work on the base first, then start with goo, gotcha

    Distiled water... I Can get that at a local super market right?

    I have a waterfilter at home, I can use that right?

    Its just water w/o any negative charged ions or neutral was it? ( if my chem serves me well )
     
  11. MississippiMan

    MississippiMan
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    :lease:


    Filtered Water IS NOT Distilled Water.

    Buy a Jug.

    The Label should explicitedly read; """Distilled Water"""

    Accept No Substitues

    "There Can Be Only One"
     
  12. theritz

    theritz
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    only4fudge,

    blackout cloth is a material used for lining regular curtains to stop light coming through. It's not black in colour - the stuff used by diy'ers for screen is white, or slightly off-white. You can get this stuff extremely inexpensively from any shop that sells curtain material. you haven't indicated what part of the world you're in, but if you're in the US then I've read that an outlet named "Joannes" would be a good place to try.


    If you're going for a fixed screen, then have a look at the FAQ in the LCD projector forum here, it has links to instructions on how to make a screen on a frame - if for no other reason, having a canvas screen suspended with a weight on the bottom is really sub-optimal, it will move back and forth, making your image go in and out of focus, and is likely to curl along the vertical edges, very undesireable.

    I'm a little concerned by this:

    The projector you've indicated is (I assume) the Benq PB 8220 - if I've got this wrong, then soz...

    For that model of projector, a 20' throw distance will give you an image between 137" and 168" diagonal, (16:9 screen), or 149" to 183" diagonal on a 4:3 screen if Projectorcentral's distance calculator is accurate for that model. If the throw is 26' then a 16: 9 screen will be between 178" and 218" diagonal depending on the degree of zoom used. These figures disagree wildly with the figures you've suggested above. The 8220 is a 1024x768 projector, you've indicated that you believe it to be a 1200x something resolution - the model number may be incorrect.... In any event I wouldn't recommend a screen of the size indicated by the calculations - the projector in question would have the light power ok, but I'd be concerned about the picture quality you'd end up with on a 10ft wide screen, never mind any wider.


    I'd suggest (if you haven't already done so) setting up the projector and the screen in temporary mode and satisfy yourself that you can accomodate an appropriate screen size and projector location for your own circumstances.

    Sean G.


    Sean G.
     
  13. only4fudge

    only4fudge
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    Looks like you are right, I must have read wrong.

    I planned on getting a roll up, but ended up with this stationary screen.

    The screen will not move, it will be bound against the wall, so it shouldnt affect the projection.

    I plan on getting the primer first on the screen, then work my way up.

    I dont plan on spending too much, not looking for the high end, money can buy thing, that can come later when I win the lottery :D

    So, I will start on it this weekend and let you guys know how it turns out, or how satisfied I am, I will take pictures if you are interested. Its not the best show case but its fair.

    I do have a tv sitting next to the projector, hope it wont affect anything.

    I also have a white painted room, and yes, it does bother me, but having a black painted wall in my room is very awkward.

    wan
     

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