help setting up vp50 on a ph9 with ps3+skyhd

chris1976

Active Member
hi
just bought a vp50 (first Processor) and its driving me up the wall can anyone tell me how to use it and which settings to use??

I have ps3 and sky hd connected via hdmi to vp50 then hdmi to ph9 audio is coaxial and optical to yamaha amp.

football is unwatchable too much judder as has the info bar on ss news,yet the judder bar test on the vp50 is smooth
what do i set the sky output too, to get best picture??currently 576

on the output setup,it wont display 1024 x 768 (i thought this was the native res of the ph9)
I cant get DD from either sky or ps3,i have read the thread regarding the ps3 about changing the settings but it wont work,not too concerned about these as il just buy another optical lead
i cant get into the deinterlacing menu either

thanks
 

ihan

Active Member
You cant use 1024x768 with the HDMI board, unfortunately the HDMI board is very limited - if you must use the HDMI board, I would use 720p.

Most of us here use the VGA input which will accept 1024x768 @ 50 and 60Hz. This leads to HDCP issues, so use a HDCP stripper like the VisionFC4 (from Lektropacks, AVsales, crtprojectors etc).

With the judder you describe, it sounds like you are outputting at 60Hz. So with the HDMI board, set the resolution to 720p and use the same output frequency as input frequency (50Hz for sky(HD), 50Hz for PAL dvd, 59.94Hz for NTSC dvd, hd-dvd or blu-ray). You can press the info button on the VP50 remote to find out what resolution and frequency it is currently outputting.

In order to get the deinterlacing menu with sky HD (from HDMI port) you have to enable PREP, which is available with v1.01beta firmware. Ensure you have your sky box set to 'auto' for its output resolution.

Hope this helps,
Ian
 

chris1976

Active Member
so in plain english,for a newbie/someone willing to spend the best part of 1500 quid to make their picture look better,its a nightmare,unless you have a degree in AV and a very understanding girlfriend
 

choddo2006

Distinguished Member
Actually it's not too bad, the vp50 is relatively simple to set up, but it's worth spending an hour reading the manual.

Step 1: SkyHD output MUST be set to Auto (I bet the picture on HD channels was bloody awful set to 576)

I think that the vp50 defaults to 50Hz in / 50Hz out so that should be ok but check in the Output config. As Ian says, that's often a cause of judder if a 50Hz source is being converted to 60Hz out to the screen.

You do have the problem that even over DVI, the PH9 will only take 1024x768 @ 60Hz, not 50. Again, I think ihan is right that the HDMI board is even more limited.

I'm surprised whoever sold you the vp50 didn't mention that as it's pretty fundamental. So you've got 3 choices;
a. Use component from Sky->vp50 and analog RGBHV from vp50 to screen.
b. Use a naughty box to convert the HDMI output from the vp50 to RGBHV for the plasma.
c. Use 720p over HDMI. Worth a try as you can do that today. Picture should still be pretty good.


My guess is you don't have the 1.01 firmware installed on the vp50 which is why, combined with the 576 setting on the Sky box, the deinterlacing menu was greyed out. You need 1.01 in order to use HDMI properly for SD channels, as the Sky box will only send 576p to the vp50, not 576i and you need the feature called PrEP on the newer firmware to handle that properly.

Oh, and Sky won't output DD over HDMI. They need to fix that. So you need another optical cable there. Why have you got both coax & optical going to the amp? You should only need one.
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
HDMI WILL take 1024x768 but only at 60Hz the same as the DVI, the spec sheet does not say this, but it does work, I've used it. Not sure if this is better than 720p at 50hz though as I haven't tried it. I have had mine set at [email protected] for the past 2-3 weeks and it's clear as a bell and the judder is not all that bad, although I don't watch sport and the latest firmware update from a few days ago has made it worse.
 

chris1976

Active Member
ok,thanks for the replies,so il get some componant cables and iv just ordered the lead so i can download version 1.01. but whats this vga input? is that the pc input on the back of ph9?
im suprised about the comments about hdmi,so do most people not use these cables with a vp50??thought they were supposed to be the ultimate cable!
ive set sky box back to auto and tried 720p and 1080i @50hz but cant get a picture,nor can i get a picture [email protected] or 50 hz
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
also whats an sdi card?do i need one?

Not for Sky HD or PS3. The standard DVDO SDI input is for SD material and also requires the source hardware to be modified. So a Sky + (SD) box modified with an SDI output or a SD DVD player with a SDI modified output. It's the cleanest path out for SD, but it is closely followed by HDMI @ 576i YCbCr 444, but the HDMI introduces HDCP issues with screens that cannot accept native resolution @ 50Hz via HDMI or DVI. There is an HD-SDI input for the DVDO but I'm not sure if it's official, it costs a fortune and I'm not sure there are that many HD-SDI sources.

IMO I'd save the potential money it would cost for SDI and put it towards a new Panasonic 1080p panel when they come out as your native resoution via HDMI frame rate issues disapear. In the mean time stick to [email protected] or [email protected] whichever suites you best.

Does anyone know if the new 1080p Panasonic TH50PZ700 (http://www.panasonic.co.uk/plasma-tv/th50pz700cab/index.htm) TV's work well with scalers? At around £2500 or less they are looking tempting, but if they are no good with scalers, I tried a PV500 a few years back and it was pants and just wouldn't work well, then I'd be best to either go for a TH50PF9 @ £3300 or wait for a PF10 which I presume will be cheaper than the PF9, I'm guessing around £2500.
 

chris1976

Active Member
so,just to clarify before i order,do i need a componant lead to go from skyhd to vp then componant to vga lead to tv? and can anyone recommend or post a link of which to buy:lease:
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
If you don't want to go the HDMI route (with it's judder at [email protected] or non native at 720p) then with the VP50 and it's PReP you can do SkyHD to VP50 via component and then into your panel via VGA, component or RGBHV (best - TY42TM6Y). To get the best out of your PS3 + Bluray though I'd try and get the HDMI route working, if you haven't already. You can then output the films from the PS3 to the VP30 at 1080p.
 

chris1976

Active Member
hi
the ps3 although ive hardly used it since hooking it up to the vp appears to be fine via the hdmi leads and i have changed the settings on ps3 to output 1080p although when pressing the 1080p icon on the vp the screen goes blank,i guess thats because the screen isnt 1080p??
and no it wont work at native,what i cant get my head around is, if sky is outputting at 50hz and the tv is 50hz why will the vp50 only give me a 60hz picture
 

chris1976

Active Member
if you dont mind me asking (you have the ph8 dont you) how do you have your vp50 and skyhd hooked up??
bearing in mind i know theres not much i can do till i get the 232/usb lead so i can download prep..its just i didnt know i was going to have to order other leads and or naughty or hdcp boxes to get it working properly and want to get the extra kit ordered straight away
thanks
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
For PS3, you want to input 1080p (Bluray native) into the VP50 for films then output [email protected] (TV native) to the TV's HDMI board. This means that neither the PS3 or the TV does any scaling.

For SkyHD for the HDMI route, you want to go into the services menu, 4. System Setup, 1. Picture Setup and set the 'HD Resolution Output' to Automatic, this way your Sky HD box will output 1080i (Sky HD native) for HD and 576p for SD stuff, then in the VP turn PReP on so that 576p is converted to 576i before being processed. Again output to your screen at [email protected]

I know this works as it's exactly my setup. One thing I did just wonder is that if the PH8 (my tv) accepts [email protected]/[email protected] but the PH9 doesn't for some reason, but I do not see why this would be. You do not want to try and output 1080i or 1080p to your tv as the scaler would not be doing it's job.
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
Before PReP I used to have Sky via SCART>RGB+S lead into the VP50 as it was the only way to get an interlaced signal with SD content, with HD content I used to use Component into the VP50 then into the PH8 via RGBHV. Problem with this setup was that when I changed between HD and SD channels I used to have to flick between inputs on the VP.

Now I have PReP I could just use the component instead, but since I use a PS3, Naim DVD player and Panasonic DVD recorder all via HDMI and am trying Sky HD via HDMI too. You do get a little FRC judder on some stuff, but I'm putting up with it for the time being to give it a good try. If I go back to Component for Sky, then I would have to flick between HDMI and RGBHV between the VP50 and panel when switching sources, where as I like the convenience of the HDMI route even though it's not perfect.

I plan to get a 1080p display soon, so when I do that will solve my FRC issue.
 

chris1976

Active Member
just tried the xga route and it says 1024x768 on the front of the vp50 this works on both ps3 and sky but has bars top and bottom but pressing 4:3 on the remote gets rid of them. is this right?? picture looks better on sky although i cant tell the difference on ps3
ps thanks for taking the time to reply to me:smashin:
 

Thatsnotmynaim

Distinguished Member
Cool, sounds like we're getting somewhere. The bars are normal but can be tweaked out. Right first thing to do is get your VP50 and TH9 pixel mapped.

First put/make sure the TV aspect is at 16:9. Now go into the 'Configuration' menu on the VP50, then 'Test Patterns' and turn on the 'Frame geometry' pattern. Now get the plasma remote and press the pos/size button. Adjust the H-Pos and H-Size to get the left and right far most white line border at the very edge of your screen. It should fully fit the screen and any H-Pos adjustment either way by even one pixel should make the white line go off the screen in either direction. Once done for H do the same for V-Pos and V-Size. Once this is done you should be there or nearly there and can be checked by bringing up the Hor. lines test patten, you should see even black and white lines, now tweak the V-Size (yes Hor pattern = V-Size) one or two pixels either way should introduce moire patterns, if you notice that then adjust it back so that the pattern goes back to perfect lines. Now repeat with the Ver Lines and H-Size. Once your happy with all that you are now pixel mapped and never adjust the V+H Size and Pos on the TV.

Now to tweak the lines which are a problem with your source not your VP50 to TH9, go to the source that has the black bars say Sky ensure Sky is set to oputput 16:9, now go into the Input Asp. Ratio menu on the VP50, first set frame AR to 16:9 and Active AR to 1.78:1, now go to Zoom and Zoom by a bit to get rid of the bars. I do 1.053x Hor and none or 1.000x on the Ver. You may also like to tweak the position by Pan to get it central if you have more black bar top or bottom.
 

chris1976

Active Member
git in, finally,gona have to wait till the morning tho,coz thats an awfull lot of commands for a drunk person:eek:
 

Chris5

Well-known Member
with blue ray, doesn't the plasma have to support a multiple of 24Hz to avoid judder (ie 48Hz). I don't know of any that do apart from the expensive pioneer 5000ex. Have I got that right?
 

choddo2006

Distinguished Member
You're right. His PH9 (and our PHD8s) support XGA @ 48 and 72Hz over analog. Don't think so on HDMI, probably not since it won't do 50!

Also; sjameson, you sure about using the plasma's H & V size adjustments to get pixel mapped? That doesn't make much sense to me since you'd be scaling the 1024x768 signal from the vp50? Does the vertical stripes test pattern give you a perfect image with that?

I set mine to XGA and it was a perfect match, just needed pushing a few pixels right.

chris1976, make sure that the vp50 is set to (under input) active and frame AR to 1.78:1 (16:9) and that the output AR is set the same, that should solve the black bars.
 

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