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Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by Pecker, Aug 9, 2006.

  1. Pecker

    Pecker
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    This is a complex one, and only a little to do with projectors, but this forum generally attracts the more knowledgeable replies, so here goes.

    Room 1 = Cinema Room
    Room 2 = Living Room

    Cinema Room contains (or will contain):
    - Themescene HD72i projector
    - Denon 2900 DVD Player (SDI Moded)
    - Denon 7.1 Amp (NOT HDMI in)
    - Sky HD Box

    Living Room contains (or will contain):
    - Pioneer 436SXE Plasma (think I've got the number right - the one WITHOUT the seperate Media Box)
    - Pioneer 7.1 Amp (NOT HDMI in)


    These rooms are quite away apart. The idea is to connect the Sky HD and DVD player up to a Lumagen Scaler in the Cinema Room, take the OUT from this and put it in a splitter. The signal for the Living Room will have to be converted to go down a CAT% lead, then converted back in the living room.

    So, I end up with an HDMI out in my Living Room carrying the signal from the Sky HD Box and the Denon, which goes straight into my Plasma.

    Question:

    How do I get Dolby Digital and dts from the Cinema Room to the Living Room?

    I know it'll be carried in the HDMI lead, but that goes straight into the Pioneer, not the A/V amp.

    Does the Pioneer have a digital sound out?

    Can the picture and sound elements of the HDMI signal be split?

    Cheers.

    BTW. just to confuse things, initially there'll be no SDI mod on the Denon and no Lumagen in the Cinema Room.

    Steve W
     
  2. NonPayingMember

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    Previously Liam @ Prog AV

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    I wonder if you are at risk of trying to be too clever. BEfore you go ahead I highly advise you think about who will use this system and how they will go about it. Is it a good idea to have a single Sky box feed two very important rooms? Gonna really wind someone up if they can't go into the lounge and watch a bit of footy because someone else is busy watching HD on the projector. At the very least, it's pointless having the DVD feed the lounge. Just buy another one, even a low budget one since the cinema room is where all the mission-critical viewing will be done.

    With the Lumagen in place this will be even worse. If someone is watching Sky in the Lounge, then this is all they will be able to watch in the Cinema room too. (and vice versa for the DVD) I recommend only using the Lumagen in the Cinema Room.

    HD over CAT5 is another interesting one. It won't run over a single run. Indeed I seem to remember most devices wanting 4 CAT5's to do this reliably. Have you any possibility to run fresh cables?? I would recommend analogue component and audio from the Sky HD box, leaving HDMI out to the cinema room.

    You're not going to be able to use HDMI for audio since you have no HDMI audio devices to extract it (or indeed nothing to embed it in the case of the DVD player) and the Pioneer only outputs digital from it's internal freeview tuner - not from a HDMI source.

    If it was me, I would have the Cinema room with the 2900 SDI and Sky HD box HDMI, into a Lumagen and up to the projector. The Living Room would have it's own DVD player, and a component and digital feed from the Sky HD box which combined with the Freeview in the Pioneer should give you enough functionality. The Sky HD box will need a optical 1:2 splitter to send DD/DTS to both rooms. You will also need to send control signals from the Living Room into the Cinema Room
     
  3. Pecker

    Pecker
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    ** UPDATE ** PLEASE SEE POST BELOW ""




    I largely agree with your ideas, but there are still some problems:

    PROBLEM 1:

    The living room is one floor below the cinema room, with the cinema room being at the back of the house and the living room at the front.

    I think the distance from the Sky HD Box to Living Room Plasma will be c.15 meters.

    Will Component & digital sound cables (phono or optical) run this long?

    PROBLEM 2:

    What happens if/when the film companies (etc) insist Sky start using HDCP on their broadcasts, and Component no longer works?

    PROBLEM 3:

    I didn't mention this this morning, as the initial post was complex enough.

    We intend to have 1 HD box feeding 4 (four) rooms: Cinema, Lounge, Master Bedroom & Kitchen. We will also have an SD box running alongside the HD box and sending signals (un-Lumagened) to all 4 rooms. The idea is that We will never be watching TV in 2 of these 4 rooms at once, and the chances of us wanting to watch 2 HD programmes at once is very minimal indeed.

    In short, wanting to watch HD in the cinema room and something else in HD elsewhere is not really a big issue.

    Digital surround sound isn't a problem with the kitchen and Master Bedroom as there'll be no 5.1 set-ups in these rooms - the HDMI lead will just run into the TVs.

    Having thought about it, I'd be happy leaving the SDI'd Denon and HD box running through the Lumagen and going solely to the projector. But can I get Component leads that will go 15 meters to the living room (and maybe 25 to the kitchen!) and can I get some sort of component splitter/amplifier?

    I'd like HD in both Bedroom & kitchen if I can get it (no rude comments, please :D ).

    Your help/advice very much appreciated.

    Cheers.

    Steve W





    ** UPDATE ** PLEASE SEE POST BELOW ""
     
  4. Pecker

    Pecker
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    Well, after discussions with she who must be obeyed, I've come to the following...

    All rooms to be SD/stereo apart from Cinema & Living Room.

    Cinema to be 'Main HD Room'.

    Living Room to be HD via Component & 5.1 via Optical cable...

    ...if possible...

    ...so that's the key question:

    Can I run (A) a component cable and (B) a digital optical cable from the Cinema Room to the Living Room - approx 15 meters (50 foot).

    Anyone?

    Oh, and any comments about component out from Sky HD Boxes being worthless at some point in the future?

    Steve W
     
  5. NonPayingMember

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    Component will run 15m distance no probs if you are using decent cable. With a big distribution amplifier at source (for the four zones) it should drive the longer cable runs too.

    Component will eventually be disabled I reckon, but by which point surely it will be easier to upgrade your Sky multi-room agreement to a second HD box?

    I assume now the Lumagen is now purely attached to the projector? Otherwise it would be a case of whatever is being watched on the projector, is also being watched on every other screen attached to the processor i.e. watch a DVD in the cinema room, every other TV has to watch a DVD too!

    So how about forget DVD, assume each room has it's own player for a start. But even still, you are making this very difficult for yourself with these requirements. Personally I would distribute HD to both Cinema and Living Room (HDMI to one, Component to the other), install the regular Sky box in the kitchen and distribute to the bedroom with RF2 output going to all other aerial points in the house.

    What you really need is a whole-house AV system like Living Control or a Crestron controlled setup which will route HD to all displays in the home, and can also be a multi-room audio solution. You would have a touch-panel in each zoned room, and can select to view Sky HD, Sky+, the main DVD, or another source. Each zone can view a different source independantly, or the same source as another zone is watching. This via composite, s-vid or component. The touch panel would also deliver distributed audio into ceiling speakers in each of the zones (independant of the audiovideo on the display if requested) either from a dedicated server or a carousel system (cheaper!). It's an expensive solution (5 figures) but is the only way you are going to get the kind of HD-everywhere solution you want without resorting to an absolute mess of random distribution amps, uncontrollable wires and zones not having access to certain sources etc. It will also cater for IR control of the various sources, DAB radio, more expensive configurations will even let you select Sky TV by channel name from the touchpad!
     
  6. Pecker

    Pecker
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    Cheers, it looks like we'll be going for HDMI out from the Sky HD Box to the projector (eventually through the Lumagen) and component out to the Living Room.

    All other rooms will be SD with their own SD multi-room boxes. Hopefully we'll upgrade these when Sky go HD Multi-Room.

    Question - will having both Component/HDMI outs connected cause problems? In other words, will it happily output both HDMI and Component at once? If not will I have to unplug cables, etc to switch from one to the other?

    BTW, I'm also thinking of having the installer run an additional (initially unused) HDMI cable alongside the Component one. Then, when I get the Lumagen I can add an HDMI 2 way splitter to the Lumagen's output.

    This has the advantage that we will have the choice to watch the Plasma in the Living Room using either the Lumagen, or if someone's watching a DVD in the Cinema, through Component.

    Sadly, suggesting the 5 figure multi-room solution is more than my life is worth.

    Steve W
     
  7. NonPayingMember

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    Yep component replicates whatever HDMI is doing i.e. they both get exactly the same feed internally.

    HDMI from Lumagen is good idea in the sense the Living Room will also then have a properley deinterlaced and scaled feed and you have a HDCP path to the room. If having all through the Luma becomes a pain, you could just as easily stick the DA *before* the Lumagen so the SKy HD HDMI output is sent once to the Lumagen, and other to the Living Room.
     
  8. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    Hello Pecker

    I'd agree with Liam re a second DVD player in the TV lounge and the SDI modified player direct to the Lumagen with the Lumagen only feeding the DLP Projector.- saves on arguments :)

    You could achieve what you want re distributing SKY HD as follows.

    SKY HD - HDMI Out to Gefen EXT-HDMI-142 (HDMI Splitter)

    EXT-HDMI-142 - HDMI Output 01 to Lumagen

    EXT-HDMI-142 - HDMI Output 02 to Gefen EXT-HDMI-242 (2x2+ Coaxial)

    EXT-HDMI-242 - HDMI Output 01 to PlasmaTV

    EXT-HDMI-242 - HDMI Output 02 (ignore - for now!)

    EXT-HDMI-242 - SPDIF 'Coaxial' Out to TV Lounge AV Receiver.

    A 15m HDMI cable run is not a problem if you choose a decent quality HDMI cable.

    The second Input on the EXT-HDMI-242 can be used for a local DVD player.

    See http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2514 and http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2757

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  9. Pecker

    Pecker
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    The decision has been made.

    The Sky HD box will go in the cinema room and feed the projector in there via HDMI.

    We are then running a component lead & audio to the Living Room to feed the Plasma.

    We are also installing a HDMI cable to run from Cinema to Living Room for future use.

    Sometime in the near future ** I'll be adding a Lumagen to the Cinema Room. I will probably add an HDMI splitter/amp to the output from the Lumagen, with one feed going to the Projector and the second to the Living Room.

    This will result in us watching day-to-day TV in the Living Room from the superior Lumagen feed, but reserves the component cables for any time when someone is watching a DVD in the Cinema Room and someone else wants to watch TV in the Living Room.

    One final question.

    We are being allocated 2 SD Sky boxes as well as the HD box, one of which will go in our little girl's room, the other will go in the Master Bedroom. We want to link up the Master Bedroom box to a TV in the Kitchen. We have a choice as to how to do this:

    1 - A co-ax cable

    or

    2 - A transmitter

    The co-ax will be...well, just a co-ax feed. The transmitter will transmit in RGB. So, initially the transmitter looks better quality, as RF is the bottom rung of PQ, with RGB being nearer the top.

    However, the Maaster Bedroom is at the front of the house on the top (2nd) floor, and the Kitchen is on the Ground Floor at the back. Will the signal provide a good enough picture, or should I go for the co-ax?

    Cheers to everyone for all their help and advice.

    Steve W

    ** The near future being when I sell my current house (it's on the market, anyone interested?). I can afford the new house and still comfortably pay the mortgage on the old, but won't free up the equity to buy the Lumagen until this one is sold.

    SW
     
  10. NonPayingMember

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    I'd go for coax. Reliable, carries IR control via magic eye, and the kitchen is hardly mission critical viewing.
     
  11. Pecker

    Pecker
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    You haven't seen me cook :D

    I'll have chance to check, anyway. The instalation will take place in several phases - phase 1 will not include wiring the Kitchen up, so I'll get one of the transmitters and see how it works. If it's no good/unreliable I'll go ahead with the co-ax. If it's okay, I won't bother.

    Steve W
     

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