Help - Quotes From Richer Sounds and Seven Oaks

Amish

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Hi All

Looking to buy a decent home cinema setup which will mainly be used for movies and sports.

There are existing 6" in ceiling speakers which I think are pretty basic, and the centre channel is oddly not where it should be, think 2-1-2 formation rather than 3-2 as it should be.

My budget for everything is between 2-4k but I really don't need top of the range equipment, nor do I want budget/entry-level.

Here is what I have got back in terms of quotes from both providers:

Seven Oaks
REL T5 subwoofer (do I really need one)
Sony VPL-HW40ES HD 3D Projector
Sony 1050 AV Receiver

As an aside, they also suggested changing the in-ceiling speakers to B&W CCM382 but I think that may tip the budget...

Richer Sounds
Optoma HD50
Yamaha RXV677 AV Receiver

From what I've read, the SevenOaks offering sounds better but is quite a bit more expensive.

I'm not too sure on where I should be focusing my budget here as there is picture quality and sound to consider.

Any advice from you guys on product choices etc.
 
'Looking to buy a decent home cinema setup which will mainly be used for movies and sports.'

'There are existing 6" in ceiling speakers which I think are pretty basic, and the centre channel is oddly not where it should be, think 2-1-2 formation rather than 3-2 as it should be.'


The second sentence makes the first requirement a waste of time/money.

Ceiling speakers are best avoided for a Movie system unless they are A. the only option, B. you install In-ceiling speakers designed for Front LCR duties or C. limit yourself to using them for Surround (or Height channels).

Start out with the room/room layout and work out where the optimum positioning for loudspeakers is going to be and then start thinking about kit selection to suit the room.

Joe
 
For aesthetic purposes and given the limited space, in ceilings really are the only option in this case. I have read a lot of negative things about them to be honest, but to my ears, and I'm no audiophile whatsoever, I've heard some systems sound really very good. Certainly good enough for me.

I am more concerned with picture quality in reality and given I've put up with years of TV speakers, I'm sure this will be an upgrade. Plus, the speakers are already in there for me to use.
 
'I've put up with years of TV speakers, I'm sure this will be an upgrade' - they will be if you lie on the floor directly below downward firing ceiling spks :)

Try turning your Hi-Fi spks through 90' so they are pointing away from you - that is what you are proposing with conventional in-ceiling spks.!

Are you going with a fixed or drop down screen?

I take it this is not a dedicated 'Cinema' room?

In-ceiling - for the Front LCR you want to be looking at a design which directs the Mid and HF towards the listener and keep in mind the Centre channel carries as much as 70% of a movie (its carrying the dialogue).

Atlantic Technology :: IC-6 HT

You need to ensure the speakers work in the room/room layout and then balance the AVR/Spk budgets - there is no sense spending big money on an AVR and partner it with badly positioned, low quality in-ceiling spks.

If you plan to stick with the current spk/spk arrangement I'd go for a budget AVR.

Joe
 
The Richer Sounds quote has no sub which is a significant amount of money so not really comparing the same thing. I would also suggest ditching the sub from both quotes and getting a BK Electronics one instead.
A picture showing your room layout would be good since it is hard to picture where the speakers are in relation to your seating and screen.
By the sounds of it the centre speaker is in towards the centre of the room and not in line with the front L/R. The way the speakers are spaced it sounds like they were designed to give a dispersed sound for background music and not a 5.1 cinema experience.
As Joe has said if the speaker configuration is how I imagine it to be I see little point in spending lots of money as you are never going to get a 'decent' surround sound.
 
Joe

Your post caused me to google in-ceiling and what I've read along with your posts, has really put me off.

I'm not going to use them and instead convince the missus to go with wall-mounted speakers in a 5:1 setup instead, she will not want floor standers and neither do I.

Given that is now the route I am taking, could you (or anyone) advise on a decent speaker package and amp to go with - again, nothing budget, but nothing top of the range either. Something that comes with a sub too?

Also, yes mate, it is a dedicated cinema room.

I have opted for a fixed screen 91".

The only thing I am definitely confirmed on the moment is the Sony VPL-HW40ES HD 3D Projector.
 
The Richer Sounds quote has no sub which is a significant amount of money so not really comparing the same thing. I would also suggest ditching the sub from both quotes and getting a BK Electronics one instead.
A picture showing your room layout would be good since it is hard to picture where the speakers are in relation to your seating and screen.
By the sounds of it the centre speaker is in towards the centre of the room and not in line with the front L/R. The way the speakers are spaced it sounds like they were designed to give a dispersed sound for background music and not a 5.1 cinema experience.
As Joe has said if the speaker configuration is how I imagine it to be I see little point in spending lots of money as you are never going to get a 'decent' surround sound.

Hi mate, I think you're right in relation to the setup. The front L/R seakers are just in front of where the wall mounted screen would be, and then the centre speaker is directly above where the seating area would be. Both Richer Sounds and Seven Oaks found it odd, and suggested I should move it to be in line with the L/R speakers if I wanted to stick with them.

But see above post, I think I am going to forget them and go for wall mounted speakers instead.

If it's still helpful to see a room layout let me know and I can arrange :)
 
A room layout is always helpful as just gives more context.
If looking at on wall speakers then I would suggest looking at the Monitor Audio Radius, Apex and Shadow ranges. There is also the Kef T series which would be worth a listen.
I would buy the speakers individually and still get a BK Electronics sub instead of one from which ever speaker you get as the BK one will be better value for money.
 
'Also, yes mate, it is a dedicated cinema room. I have opted for a fixed screen 91".'

Time to Google 'Acoustically Transparent' (AT) screen and consider In-wall speakers behind the screen - that way the speakers can be positioned n the ideal configuration for your room/seating and no one will ever see them.

Floor plan - yes as PSM1 says will be helpful.

Joe
 
I've attached an image and floor plan of the room if that helps:

mVpu9C9.jpg


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Joe,

I imagine in-wall speakers given the work required etc. may be out of my reach budget wise? Happy to take suggestions mind.
 
From SevenOaks:

Amish,

No quality difference between a B&W MT 50 5.1 satellite speaker system with ASW 608 sub at £ 1089.00 or 5 x CCM382 in ceiling speakers and ASW 608 sub @ £ 975.00

However your speaker cables are not in the correct locations for MT50 and the rears are too far behind your sofa locations.

I would either start with your speakers or change the existing speakers for 5 x new in ceiling speakers (Assuming 8” in ceiling speakers will fit) and reposition the new centre speaker.
 
5.1 Speaker Layout - http://www.dolby.com/us/en/guide/surround-sound-speaker-setup/5-1-setup.html

Install - better to spend a bit on the install to optimise the Sound (and vision) vs. spend more on kit but then 'install' it badly.

Room - we've completed a few 'games' rooms using the Atlantic Technology In-ceiling speakers.

Blackout - what are you planning (if anything) for the window/doors?

Some of the 'best' projectors for use in a 'bat cave' don't fair too well for general purpose viewing if there is much/any ambient light.

Joe
 
The sound quality from the ceiling speakers and the M1s may be the same but the surround sound quality will be a lot different.
 
Confused on what route to go down with the speakers now given what you guys and seven oaks have feedback.

Joe , there's blackout blinds on all the windows now. That picture was quite old.
 
We’ve always had great feedback when supplying/installing the AT IC-6HT and its predecessor ICTS-6 HT.

If the 'screen' in the image is indicative of the actual size another option is to mount In-wall or On-wall cabinets in the 'gap' between the bottom of the screen and the radiator.

You could even consider a single chassis 'passive' LCR driven by the AVR - http://www.atlantictechnology.com/index.php/products/soundbars-wall-speakers/fs-5000/

http://www.artcoustic.com/Product pages HTM/SoundBar SL.html

Another option being something which doesn't 'look' too much like a Loudspeaker - http://www.artcoustic.com/Product pages HTM/Target SL.html

Joe
 
Thanks all for the help thus far, so given the room layout, floor plan and cabling in place right now, what would you guys suggest I do in terms of the audio? Can people layout their options in a simplified way in kind of a top 3 way? Thank you!
 
Audio is deceptively ‘simple’ – you put the loudspeakers in the optimum position to achieve good Stereo and Surround sound at your listening position!

In-ceiling is always a compromise – the Atlantic Technology LCR designs are the best I have come across for use as a Front LCR without getting into big money options!

In-wall can work very well if you can position them correctly and have a well-constructed wall.

On-wall gives you lots of options in terms of the style/look of the speakers – both options linked to earlier work well.

The Passive Soundbar style Front LCR options could work well for you in terms of looks and sound dispersion as your seating is relatively close to the screen so you don't require that 'wide' a sound stage.

Joe
 
Joe

With your product suggestions, would they have to be ordered from the U.S. Can they not be sourced in the UK? If not, are there any suggestions you would have where I can order similar products from here?
 
AT are available in the UK - it's a range we use/supply on a regular basis.

Drop me a note if you want further info.

Joe

PS Artcoustic too - have used them on quite a range of systems.
 
The existing ceiling speakers can be used for ATMOS duties. You could use Monitor Audio Shadow speakers as an on wall option.

You will need a different AV receiver for Dolby Atmos though
 

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