Help! please. What to purchase for new HT in new house?

Kayan

Novice Member
Hello, we are closing on our new home this coming Thursday! It's been a long journey and we are soooo excited!! Here is what our new living room is going to look like when finished and with seating, mostly. I have quite a few questions and need some advice and/or direction desperately. Seating is the back blue line and towards the front wall on both the left (bumping almost into the molding of the fireplace) and the right where the line is. Left to right is 145", left side to fireplace is 100", and right side forwards is about 67". My wife has agreed to a nicer HT setup, and this will be used 90% movies (Sci-fi, action, fantasy, and everything else in between, except horror) and games/10% music. Our seating is between 12-13 ft back from the front wall. The blue line on the wall is the width of a 77" TV, and the red line is for an 85" TV. We don't have anything as of now. The room behind our seating is totally open to an eat in kitchen and kitchen behind it. The width of the room is about 19ft, but the depth is about 40 ft. We have 9 ft ceilings.

I think we'll be sliding whatever TV to the right between 1-1.5 feet, on the front wall to give us space for speakers - which leads me to my first question:

1 - What size TV should we get? My wife wants to stick with a 77" oled - C1, G1, or a90j; but I feel like, due to our distance from the screen, maybe a 85" Samsung q90a would be better. Thoughts? We have 4 windows here, but they will have blackout curtains on them.

2 - Do bookshelves put out enough sound to comfortably fill this space with sound, or should we be focusing on towers? We have 3 small children (2.5 - 6 years), so whatever we get should be sturdy and not easily tipped over.

3 - Due to the open space behind the seating, I don't think we can do a traditional 5.1 system, so we'll probably have to go with a 3.1.2 setup. The TV will eventually be wall-mounted. Are the ceilings too tall and seating too far away to make use of up-firing Atmos speakers? We'll probably start with a 3.1, and expand into Atmos later, if it would even work for us.

4 - Speaker suggestions are welcome. We (read as mostly me, haha) have been looking at lots of different things on Amazon, Crutchfield, and Best Buy. We both really dig the look of the KEF Q950s, R3s, Polk Reserve 700, Monitor Audio Silver 500, and Focal Chora 806D. We can't listen to any of them before buying, unfortunately. We tend to like slightly warmer sound signatures, and we're both sensitive to overly bright things. We don't like Klipsch or Elac, we listened to these before we moved.

TV budget is right around 4k. Speaker/sub/AVR budget is probably around 4k as well, though this may be able to be stretched a tad if there's a good reason.

Thanks in advance for the help and suggestions. I want to buy stuff right after closing on Thursday!


Living room TV.jpg
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
The recommended watching distance for 4K 85" tv is 7,1 - 10,6 feet so i think it´s safe to say it would be the ideal pick if wife agrees. :) The larger the better for more cinematic feel. Eyes will get used to it in week and going for the smaller only gives buyers remorse for most folks. If possible keep the couch little bit closer so 12feet if that is minium as you don´t want to sit too far from the speakers either which i assume will be placed between (inside) the fireplace and the right side window?

The room is quite nightmare though. You have the fireplace, the window, the opening all just in the way. Also it´s a huge room with opening to another space.

I think floorstanders are safest bet due to kids running there so no bookshelf speakers on stands to knock down. There is few things to consider. Q750 only fits your budget i tell you later why, the Q range is said to be more brighter/forward sounding to R-serie which is more warmer and laid back but also out of your budget (R5/R7 or even R3 + R2c), however for home theater lot of people prefer that little extra brightness. The Q range is very popular for home theater. It´s always risky to buy blind so make sure you can return if not happy. Also they don`t have rear ports so you should be able to keep them bit closer to wall which i assume you would wish and then rely on room correction (av-receiver) to bring the excessive bass down so it won´t muddy the overall sound too much. Another good thing with the Q range is the large center channel Q650c which would be important as that one puts out even more than your main speakers (60-70% of movies soundtrack), often said as the most important speaker in your home cinema system. Q650c is large and you really want to think about the tv height. I would say as high as is comfortable to view without looking up. You just don´t want to put the center channel too low shooting peoples knees and don´t even think about hiding it inside cabinet! Find some good compromise and then you can angle the front of it to shoot higher toward peoples ears, couple rubber door stoppers under it works fine for pocket money. Consider some large rug in front of speakers on the floor between tv and couch and just generally soft furnishing, bookshelfs etc. in the room.

Dolbys guide for 3.1 speaker placement, forget the subwoofer placement though.

I`m not sure how good the upfiring would work, there is sweet spot and if you can´t move couch/speakers it may not wow you. Also your ceiling would need to be flat and made of an acoustically reflective material (drywall, plaster, hardwood, or another rigid, non---sound-absorbing material). However there is another choice and that would be buying white Kef Q50a and placing them high up on front wall about same distance apart as your main l/r speakers. Typically just below ceiling and as they are angled downwards then it does the trick. Q50a has keyholes in the rear so two screws are needed only. White finish due to blending better with your walls. Then you can buy something like below to hide white speaker cable runs. However don´t buy Atmos gear yet cause your budget is not good for it. You need to build strong base system first.
Amazon product
It`s bit tricky where to buy as i remember some guys talking that Crutchfield has good return policy, but if you would buy speakers (Q750, Q650c) + av receiver from a hifi shop then you would get some discount so more like a package deal. Below prices from Crutchfield:

1800$ Q750
750$ Q650c
1500$ Denon X3700H
-------------------------
4050$ without subwoofer, so this is going to be problem

Another issue might be finding the X3700H as it seems that most receivers are unavailable due to covid and there was fire in one factory so they are out of parts. However check Amazon, i don´t live in US so i can`t see it (google shows in stock but i have my doubts) , it doesn´t let me change the shipping country without logging in.

"this will be used 90% movies (Sci-fi, action, fantasy, and everything else in between"

And finally one of most important par of your system, subwoofer which can make dramatic difference or if saving going for wrong product it can let your system down totally. As mentioned that room is quite a nightmare as it´s so large and also opens to upstairs and you have basically only the left side of fireplace to place the subwoofer, then you need to get the wiring cleanly back to av-receiver too. Sadly the placement matters, it can sound really poor in X place and much better in Y place. The general recommendation is not to place it near any opening and sadly you just have the stairs there so i would stick with left side. The sad news (for wife) is that the subwoofer needs to be quite large to have any business filling that type of room with decent impact and especially your usage type of movies requires lot. The best performance for low buck comes from HSU VTF3 Mk-5. It would be absolute minium i would consider. It´s also very popular, there is like hundreds of threads of it. Sadly it´s on back order so you need to contact the company when it´s available for order.




What ever you decide in the end don´t cheap on the woofer. Heck start with 2.1 system first if you have to and buy the center channel later. You aren´t going to be blown away with small box there. If you can somehow magically up your budget or you get the speakers + receiver in a good package deal then there is the soon to be discontinued model on sale from Monoprice with free shipping. It`s big and heavy though so for the subwoofers show some youtube videos of these models i have mentioned here so it won´t come a total shock. I feel the videos can give you good idea of the sizes in room. Anyway the model below is superb for the price:



For speakers some basic OFC wire 50ft roll, 12AWG or 14AWG, no need to be fancy brand from hifi shop as they would milk money out from you:

Subwoofer cable check the length if you have to move the sub so you have long enough cable, so rather take bit more than curse later..



Long post but at least we get little bit forward. Tell me your thoughts. Biggest worry is the budget and also the speakers if you can´t listen them before buying, i would check all local hifi stores, best buys if you got some shop you can visit to get some idea.
 

Kayan

Novice Member
The recommended watching distance for 4K 85" tv is 7,1 - 10,6 feet so i think it´s safe to say it would be the ideal pick if wife agrees. :) The larger the better for more cinematic feel. Eyes will get used to it in week and going for the smaller only gives buyers remorse for most folks. If possible keep the couch little bit closer so 12feet if that is minium as you don´t want to sit too far from the speakers either which i assume will be placed between (inside) the fireplace and the right side window?

The room is quite nightmare though. You have the fireplace, the window, the opening all just in the way. Also it´s a huge room with opening to another space.

I think floorstanders are safest bet due to kids running there so no bookshelf speakers on stands to knock down. There is few things to consider. Q750 only fits your budget i tell you later why, the Q range is said to be more brighter/forward sounding to R-serie which is more warmer and laid back but also out of your budget (R5/R7 or even R3 + R2c), however for home theater lot of people prefer that little extra brightness. The Q range is very popular for home theater. It´s always risky to buy blind so make sure you can return if not happy. Also they don`t have rear ports so you should be able to keep them bit closer to wall which i assume you would wish and then rely on room correction (av-receiver) to bring the excessive bass down so it won´t muddy the overall sound too much. Another good thing with the Q range is the large center channel Q650c which would be important as that one puts out even more than your main speakers (60-70% of movies soundtrack), often said as the most important speaker in your home cinema system. Q650c is large and you really want to think about the tv height. I would say as high as is comfortable to view without looking up. You just don´t want to put the center channel too low shooting peoples knees and don´t even think about hiding it inside cabinet! Find some good compromise and then you can angle the front of it to shoot higher toward peoples ears, couple rubber door stoppers under it works fine for pocket money. Consider some large rug in front of speakers on the floor between tv and couch and just generally soft furnishing, bookshelfs etc. in the room.

Dolbys guide for 3.1 speaker placement, forget the subwoofer placement though.

I`m not sure how good the upfiring would work, there is sweet spot and if you can´t move couch/speakers it may not wow you. Also your ceiling would need to be flat and made of an acoustically reflective material (drywall, plaster, hardwood, or another rigid, non---sound-absorbing material). However there is another choice and that would be buying white Kef Q50a and placing them high up on front wall about same distance apart as your main l/r speakers. Typically just below ceiling and as they are angled downwards then it does the trick. Q50a has keyholes in the rear so two screws are needed only. White finish due to blending better with your walls. Then you can buy something like below to hide white speaker cable runs. However don´t buy Atmos gear yet cause your budget is not good for it. You need to build strong base system first.
Amazon product
It`s bit tricky where to buy as i remember some guys talking that Crutchfield has good return policy, but if you would buy speakers (Q750, Q650c) + av receiver from a hifi shop then you would get some discount so more like a package deal. Below prices from Crutchfield:

1800$ Q750
750$ Q650c
1500$ Denon X3700H
-------------------------
4050$ without subwoofer, so this is going to be problem

Another issue might be finding the X3700H as it seems that most receivers are unavailable due to covid and there was fire in one factory so they are out of parts. However check Amazon, i don´t live in US so i can`t see it (google shows in stock but i have my doubts) , it doesn´t let me change the shipping country without logging in.

"this will be used 90% movies (Sci-fi, action, fantasy, and everything else in between"

And finally one of most important par of your system, subwoofer which can make dramatic difference or if saving going for wrong product it can let your system down totally. As mentioned that room is quite a nightmare as it´s so large and also opens to upstairs and you have basically only the left side of fireplace to place the subwoofer, then you need to get the wiring cleanly back to av-receiver too. Sadly the placement matters, it can sound really poor in X place and much better in Y place. The general recommendation is not to place it near any opening and sadly you just have the stairs there so i would stick with left side. The sad news (for wife) is that the subwoofer needs to be quite large to have any business filling that type of room with decent impact and especially your usage type of movies requires lot. The best performance for low buck comes from HSU VTF3 Mk-5. It would be absolute minium i would consider. It´s also very popular, there is like hundreds of threads of it. Sadly it´s on back order so you need to contact the company when it´s available for order.




What ever you decide in the end don´t cheap on the woofer. Heck start with 2.1 system first if you have to and buy the center channel later. You aren´t going to be blown away with small box there. If you can somehow magically up your budget or you get the speakers + receiver in a good package deal then there is the soon to be discontinued model on sale from Monoprice with free shipping. It`s big and heavy though so for the subwoofers show some youtube videos of these models i have mentioned here so it won´t come a total shock. I feel the videos can give you good idea of the sizes in room. Anyway the model below is superb for the price:



For speakers some basic OFC wire 50ft roll, 12AWG or 14AWG, no need to be fancy brand from hifi shop as they would milk money out from you:

Subwoofer cable check the length if you have to move the sub so you have long enough cable, so rather take bit more than curse later..



Long post but at least we get little bit forward. Tell me your thoughts. Biggest worry is the budget and also the speakers if you can´t listen them before buying, i would check all local hifi stores, best buys if you got some shop you can visit to get some idea.

Thanks for your reply :).

My wife doesn't want to go 85 because it would take up so much space on that wall, that it would be overpowering, in her opinion. There's only a 6.5-7.5" difference between the two sizes, width wise, so that may sway her over eventually. We both really love OLEDs, as my PC monitor now is the 48" OLED, and the quality difference for the 85/86 is slight, but noticeable. You're correct, about the speakers being placed in between the TV and fireplace on one side, and the TV and side window on the other.

I got to go in and look at it again today, and the layout isn't conducive to many fun things, but it was a good deal in this horrid housing market here. There's a single hi-fi dealer in the area: he has Golden Ears and some others, but both of the times I stopped by, all he would demo for me were GE, and the wifey didn't care for them as much as I did. The closest KEF dealer is 3+ hours each way, which isn't feasible. Monitor Audio is about the same. Polk sells at Best Buy, but they are all the lower lines (T and S series - speaking of which our old 3.1 system was S15 for LR, and a S35 center). We liked the sound of these, but the constant volume up/down for dialogue was bonkers. So, as you can see demo'ing is largely out of reach, sadly. Polk does sell direct from their website, and they do have free returns. After some more research today, I'm thinking that the MA Silvers are probably out of the equation. Basically everyone says how bright they are, and we really don't like overly bright sound signatures.

Crutchfield and Best Buy both have good return policies here in the US, and outside of floor standing speakers Crutchfield is cheap to return to. Best Buy has free returns all around. I can order the Q750/950 and R3s from either place, Polks as well, but the MA Silver is either Amazon or Crutchfield. I don't really want to play speaker roulette and the return game, but it may be necessary. What you said about the R3 sounds enticing about it being warmer, but I am concerned about their ability to fill the room with sound and safety with my children.

1 - We don't need the TV sound to go all the way back to the kitchen at high levels or anything. Honestly probably only 15ft from the TV wall back into the room, but my search engine skills are failing me as I can't seem to find the info I'm looking for with that. Would the R3 and R2c be able to do that comfortably?

2 - I think I'm good starting out with a 2.1 system first, and adding a center in a month or two. It also seems as though Atmos is going to the back burner for now. My ceiling is slightly distressed. It isn't like popcorn ceiling, just some slight texture or distressing on it. The ceiling fan is also in the way of the Atmos bouncing, so I think we'd have to go with something mounted near the ceiling, but that's something for another time.

3 - As far as subs goes, I 've seen a lot of people recommending two subs for the size space we have, but I don't think it's very feasible right now given the room constraints. The sub you linked seems like it would be great, but good Lord it is massive. I think to have a sub, it would have to be either in between the TV and tower speaker, or the tower and the fireplace. I realize it isn't ideal, but I'm not sure I can get the ok to move it to the other side of the fireplace. Is this going to seriously hamper it's ability to provide us with a good sub system? What about using a SVS 3000 micro or 2000 Pro - they're both around the price of what you listed?

4 - The x3700h is starting to come back into stock sometimes here in the US at various sellers. Would it be worth buying a cheaper holdover AVR and get a full 3.1 system first, or would it be smarter to get a "future-proofed" AVR first and build the speakers around it pieces at a time? Is Denon the best bet? We have two 4k/120hz sources (PS5 and Xbox X). I'd like to run everything through the AVR, because unless we get the LG OLED the other TVs only have 1-2 HDMI 2.1 ports. We also have one or two other sources for streaming and maybe a 4k player.

I have leftover speaker cable, some nice 14 gauge and I kept my subs' cable as well. So I'm set on that front.

If we go with one of the 77" OLED TVs for either 3300 (C1) - 3500 (a80j), we could spend the extra from this on a higher speaker budget. What do you think?

Again, thank you for your reply!
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Which ever feels more important picture quality or more optimal size for the viewing distance. I wouldn´t hesitate with the 85", but i know there is lot of people who loves the OLED so go what feels right. Best would have been to wait until black friday cause that is the day when you will get probably best price of the year. Sadly long way to go for that one if you moving soon.

R3s are bit more demanding, but i`m more worried about the speakers being so close to stairs and if kids run/play there. Then the extra cost for stands etc. I almost forgot you have one very good option which i would strongly consider. It´s touted as one of the best speakers in that 2000$ price class. No harshness. I have also read that you may get good deals from dealers so you should ask around if intrested. High gloss black and white finishes available.


As you probably haven´t heard these earlier then check some reviews. Revel is one of those brands that are very much equal to Kef and other big names. They are designed under Harman which has one of the best technologies to design speakers and they use certain double blind testing robots, they have competitor speakers on robot that changes the speakers super quick and listeners (hobbyists and newcomers) they give their thoughts on each speakers and Harman then use that information what type of sound people prefer. You will find lot more information why they are so good option for both movies and music. Anyway below is few reviews to get you started.


I would buy something like the X3700H instantly if you can afford it and then add the center channel later. Sadly the Denon only has one full 8k 2.1 hdmi input and two outputs. The rest are the spec 2.0, but they do support some features for gamers i believe. Another option that has more (all) hdmi inputs of the new would be the upcoming Yamaha RX-A4A if you are ok with 7.2 receiver. Very good option no doubt! These new models come with 5year warranty aswell.

For sure there would be benefits for dual subwoofers to get smoother bass response for more than one seat. So with one sub it may end up sounding fine in one spot and different in others. You will put the sub in the front if that is the only place to go. The 3000 Micro would be total waste of money for that size space. SB2000 is ideal for 1,500 ft^3 to 3,000 ft^3 room. You don´t get much of help from the room and your use leaning toward action movies ported sub should be considered also as you are you stuck with just one sub, so largest one you can fit basically. I know this is very hard thing to accept, but believe me it makes such different for those type of movies when you go larger. What you make of the PB2000 Pro or PB3000 models from SVS? Click the models and under spec there is dimensions with/without grille. They aren`t small either and will come out to room some so measure that. Is that finish ok or do we need to look something better looking?

It´s tricky call with the tv. I hate doing compromises. :) Trust your instinct. Maybe visit the store again to compare 77" vs. 85". Keep in mind that you are going to keep the tv long time so you need to be sure. I usually keep at least 10years as i don´t run after new stuff. I don´t think the Samsung picture quality would be bad either and just considering the massive room you have.
 
Last edited:

Kayan

Novice Member
Which ever feels more important picture quality or more optimal size for the viewing distance. I wouldn´t hesitate with the 85", but i know there is lot of people who loves the OLED so go what feels right. Best would have been to wait until black friday cause that is the day when you will get probably best price of the year. Sadly long way to go for that one if you moving soon.

R3s are bit more demanding, but i`m more worried about the speakers being so close to stairs and if kids run/play there. Then the extra cost for stands etc. I almost forgot you have one very good option which i would strongly consider. It´s touted as one of the best speakers in that 2000$ price class. No harshness. I have also read that you may get good deals from dealers so you should ask around if intrested. High gloss black and white finishes available.


As you probably haven´t heard these earlier then check some reviews. Revel is one of those brands that are very much equal to Kef and other big names. They are designed under Harman which has one of the best technologies to design speakers and they use certain double blind testing robots, they have competitor speakers on robot that changes the speakers super quick and listeners (hobbyists and newcomers) they give their thoughts on each speakers and Harman then use that information what type of sound people prefer. You will find lot more information why they are so good option for both movies and music. Anyway below is few reviews to get you started.


I would buy something like the X3700H instantly if you can afford it and then add the center channel later. Sadly the Denon only has one full 8k 2.1 hdmi input and two outputs. The rest are the spec 2.0, but they do support some features for gamers i believe. Another option that has more (all) hdmi inputs of the new would be the upcoming Yamaha RX-A4A if you are ok with 7.2 receiver. Very good option no doubt! These new models come with 5year warranty aswell.

For sure there would be benefits for dual subwoofers to get smoother bass response for more than one seat. So with one sub it may end up sounding fine in one spot and different in others. You will put the sub in the front if that is the only place to go. The 3000 Micro would be total waste of money for that size space. SB2000 is ideal for 1,500 ft^3 to 3,000 ft^3 room. You don´t get much of help from the room and your use leaning toward action movies ported sub should be considered also as you are you stuck with just one sub, so largest one you can fit basically. I know this is very hard thing to accept, but believe me it makes such different for those type of movies when you go larger. What you make of the PB2000 Pro or PB3000 models from SVS? Click the models and under spec there is dimensions with/without grille. They aren`t small either and will come out to room some so measure that. Is that finish ok or do we need to look something better looking?

It´s tricky call with the tv. I hate doing compromises. :) Trust your instinct. Maybe visit the store again to compare 77" vs. 85". Keep in mind that you are going to keep the tv long time so you need to be sure. I usually keep at least 10years as i don´t run after new stuff. I don´t think the Samsung picture quality would be bad either and just considering the massive room you have.
Sorry for the delay in replying to your helpful posts. Yes, Black Friday would be ideal, but we can't go 3 months with a 48" TV.

My wife went to the local Best Buy to look at TVs, with a tape measure, and stood 12ft away from a 65, 75, 77, and 85. She came away acknowledging that the 65 was definitely too small, and that the 77 or 85 were good. Of course the Samsung qn90a 85" is sold out everywhere right now....We may get a 77" OLED due to sales and it actually being available right now, but we'll see what is available come Thursday after closing or Friday.

I'm still undecided on the speakers though. We spoke at length last night about towers vs bookshelf, and she would prefer the look of bookshelves, even with the stands and possibility of being tipped over. She also admitted to being perfectly happy with our old gear (Polk S15s and a s35), but understood and was ok with the fact that I want something more for HT. Another selling point for bookshelves is that they are a lot cheaper to return to somewhere like Crutchfield (10/pair vs 75 each for towers). Maybe the R3s or Polk Reserve 200s, or something else. I really don't know; however, I do know that for the WAF bookshelves may be the safer route even though they aren't technically safer....

We listened to those Revels via Crutchfield's virtual speaker compare and neither of us liked the sound. As far as subs go, I was recommended 2 X 1000 Pro Subs, but was hoping the 3000 Micro would work (even though I kind of knew it wouldn't). That being said, the PB-2000 would work, or even the SB-3000, as long as it fits. I think the PB-3000 is too expensive for right now.

I was looking at the Yamaha models, specifically the A4A, but the ship dates have completely disappeared and I'd like to get more than just TV speakers. I'm so angry at myself for selling my old receiver now, but when I sold it AVRs weren't hard to get ahold of. Not like they are today. I don't think I need anything more than a 5.1, or 3.1.2 setup, so an AVR with 5 or 7 speakers hookups should be fine. I don't see myself ever being able to install rears in this house.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Sorry for the delay in replying to your helpful posts. Yes, Black Friday would be ideal, but we can't go 3 months with a 48" TV.

My wife went to the local Best Buy to look at TVs, with a tape measure, and stood 12ft away from a 65, 75, 77, and 85. She came away acknowledging that the 65 was definitely too small, and that the 77 or 85 were good. Of course the Samsung qn90a 85" is sold out everywhere right now....We may get a 77" OLED due to sales and it actually being available right now, but we'll see what is available come Thursday after closing or Friday.

I'm still undecided on the speakers though. We spoke at length last night about towers vs bookshelf, and she would prefer the look of bookshelves, even with the stands and possibility of being tipped over. She also admitted to being perfectly happy with our old gear (Polk S15s and a s35), but understood and was ok with the fact that I want something more for HT. Another selling point for bookshelves is that they are a lot cheaper to return to somewhere like Crutchfield (10/pair vs 75 each for towers). Maybe the R3s or Polk Reserve 200s, or something else. I really don't know; however, I do know that for the WAF bookshelves may be the safer route even though they aren't technically safer....

We listened to those Revels via Crutchfield's virtual speaker compare and neither of us liked the sound. As far as subs go, I was recommended 2 X 1000 Pro Subs, but was hoping the 3000 Micro would work (even though I kind of knew it wouldn't). That being said, the PB-2000 would work, or even the SB-3000, as long as it fits. I think the PB-3000 is too expensive for right now.

I was looking at the Yamaha models, specifically the A4A, but the ship dates have completely disappeared and I'd like to get more than just TV speakers. I'm so angry at myself for selling my old receiver now, but when I sold it AVRs weren't hard to get ahold of. Not like they are today. I don't think I need anything more than a 5.1, or 3.1.2 setup, so an AVR with 5 or 7 speakers hookups should be fine. I don't see myself ever being able to install rears in this house.

If you have dreamed of the OLED long time then perhaps you should go with that so you won´t get buyers remorse. And if you get good deal for it then the better. Nice jump from 48" surely and you have bit more money for speakers/sub/receiver.

Virtual Speaker compare is like deciding which speakers to buy while listening youtube music demo of speakers with some crappy pc speakers or cheap headphones. And i wouldn´t put any weight how they would sound through that. If we look the objective data for R3 they are top class speakers by engineering. Also the general feeling is that they are more warm sounding and laid back than in your face, so if that is what you prefer... Get some speaker stands that can be filled to make them more heavy (check top plate size vs. R3 width and depth) and then you have to think is some blutack under any help or do you have to buy the two "things" that goes over and under the speakers + stands. I don´t know what it´s called, soft material with sticker so it keeps the speaker from falling off from stands, then just make the stands heavy and you need to keep the speakers fairly close to wall. R3 comes with two type of port bungs half and full so you can play with those cause rear port + very close to wall not best combination.

I don´t know who made that recommendation for subs, but that is just silly also cause you said you can´t place the 2nd sub anyway optimally and that is massive room with full stairs opening to upstairs. So going with one sub i say it again, go as large as you can afford cause that is massive space and small sealed sub just doesn´t work there especially if you place it middle of front wall where it sounds even more bass light! If you go with PB2000 Pro then for the sake of wife do some cardboard mock up with the dimensions. This only so it won´t come as suprise. Show her some youtube videos where the size is seen in living room! SVS has 45day home trial period with free return shipping, but still it´s painfull to send products back so make sure you don´t break the boxes too much when you open them. Anothe option would be the SVS PC2000 Pro cylinder, takes low floorspace but is taller so might not work.

Try to get Denon X3700H, you can´t really go wrong with it considering what it offers! I wouldn´t buy any lower range with R3s especially! Even if you go with Q range the cheaper model isn`t as effective flattening the room response for speakers and especially subs. Also as you keep speakers close to wall so the bass is boosted and the XT32 version is lot more effective in this range compared to XT (X2700H). There is reason why this is one of the most sold Denon model hitting the sweet spot typically.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Layout - centering the TV between the fire and window and sticking to a 2.0 system would seem an obvious option to go with.

Source Devices - I may have missed it! What are you planning to use?

Amplification (with Room correction) - you could either go with a two or multi-channel AVR, if there is little likelihood of you adding additional loudspeakers (other than possibly a sub) at a later date you can put more money into optimising on a two channel system.

Amplification (no room correction) - there are also options for stereo amps with a digital Input and use the TV as the ‘Hub’ of the system.

Processor + Active speakers - may be another option to consider.

Passive speakers - have a look at the Atlantic Technology AT-3, you may get away without the need for a Sub. Though simple enough to add in one (or two) Subs at a later date. AT are based in Norwood, MA, they have a dealer network or you can purchase factory direct. The website seems to be going through a big update so best to see them on FB.

Joe
 

Kayan

Novice Member
If you have dreamed of the OLED long time then perhaps you should go with that so you won´t get buyers remorse. And if you get good deal for it then the better. Nice jump from 48" surely and you have bit more money for speakers/sub/receiver.

Virtual Speaker compare is like deciding which speakers to buy while listening youtube music demo of speakers with some crappy pc speakers or cheap headphones. And i wouldn´t put any weight how they would sound through that. If we look the objective data for R3 they are top class speakers by engineering. Also the general feeling is that they are more warm sounding and laid back than in your face, so if that is what you prefer... Get some speaker stands that can be filled to make them more heavy (check top plate size vs. R3 width and depth) and then you have to think is some blutack under any help or do you have to buy the two "things" that goes over and under the speakers + stands. I don´t know what it´s called, soft material with sticker so it keeps the speaker from falling off from stands, then just make the stands heavy and you need to keep the speakers fairly close to wall. R3 comes with two type of port bungs half and full so you can play with those cause rear port + very close to wall not best combination.

I don´t know who made that recommendation for subs, but that is just silly also cause you said you can´t place the 2nd sub anyway optimally and that is massive room with full stairs opening to upstairs. So going with one sub i say it again, go as large as you can afford cause that is massive space and small sealed sub just doesn´t work there especially if you place it middle of front wall where it sounds even more bass light! If you go with PB2000 Pro then for the sake of wife do some cardboard mock up with the dimensions. This only so it won´t come as suprise. Show her some youtube videos where the size is seen in living room! SVS has 45day home trial period with free return shipping, but still it´s painfull to send products back so make sure you don´t break the boxes too much when you open them. Anothe option would be the SVS PC2000 Pro cylinder, takes low floorspace but is taller so might not work.

Try to get Denon X3700H, you can´t really go wrong with it considering what it offers! I wouldn´t buy any lower range with R3s especially! Even if you go with Q range the cheaper model isn`t as effective flattening the room response for speakers and especially subs. Also as you keep speakers close to wall so the bass is boosted and the XT32 version is lot more effective in this range compared to XT (X2700H). There is reason why this is one of the most sold Denon model hitting the sweet spot typically.

Layout - centering the TV between the fire and window and sticking to a 2.0 system would seem an obvious option to go with.

Source Devices - I may have missed it! What are you planning to use?

Amplification (with Room correction) - you could either go with a two or multi-channel AVR, if there is little likelihood of you adding additional loudspeakers (other than possibly a sub) at a later date you can put more money into optimising on a two channel system.

Amplification (no room correction) - there are also options for stereo amps with a digital Input and use the TV as the ‘Hub’ of the system.

Processor + Active speakers - may be another option to consider.

Passive speakers - have a look at the Atlantic Technology AT-3, you may get away without the need for a Sub. Though simple enough to add in one (or two) Subs at a later date. AT are based in Norwood, MA, they have a dealer network or you can purchase factory direct. The website seems to be going through a big update so best to see them on FB.

Joe
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. We ended up getting the 77" TV because the 85" would have taken a month to get to us.

We also went with a 2.1 bookshelf system for now, with the understanding that we'd get a center soon. We went with the Monitor Audio Silver 100s. It was cheaper and allowed us to the SVS 4000 sub, lol, I can't believe the wifey was on with that. Our last sub was 200w....I grabbed a cheap stand-in AVR that will be replaced when we can get a full (or at 3 inputs) hdmi 2.1 avr.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Thanks for all the help and suggestions. We ended up getting the 77" TV because the 85" would have taken a month to get to us.

We also went with a 2.1 bookshelf system for now, with the understanding that we'd get a center soon. We went with the Monitor Audio Silver 100s. It was cheaper and allowed us to the SVS 4000 sub, lol, I can't believe the wifey was on with that. Our last sub was 200w....I grabbed a cheap stand-in AVR that will be replaced when we can get a full (or at 3 inputs) hdmi 2.1 avr.

Congrats! They are good speakers hope you like the MA sound, i have always liked them. Give them some space if you can cause they are rear ported and not small so spread them apart good amount and push little bit forward. Hope you got some 23,6-24" speaker stands. Atacama SLX600 are very sturdy if you look something that won´t be easily knocked, however you need to "fasten" the speakers to stands somehow if you are scared kids will knock them down. When you add center channel try to buy the Silver C350 over the C150. It will make big difference to movies and will be worth every penny. You need to have bit more space for it though due to height.

Hope you got discount from the Silver 100s cause they just announced new Silver range. If you didn`t then return them and buy from somewhere else who gives discount cause you shouldn´t pay full price!!! Notice you need to buy the center channel quite soon if you want to have the same range cause it will be discontinued soon!

This is the new range which will be out in stores very soon:

This is the old range which you most likely bought:

Which av-receiver model you bought? Yamaha RX-A4A should be available around november/december if further delays won`t be coming. It will have full set of hdmi 2.1 inputs/outputs and the firmware upgrade should be put out soon when they are available.

Is that SVS SB4000?
 
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Kayan

Novice Member
Congrats! They are good speakers hope you like the MA sound, i have always liked them. Give them some space if you can cause they are rear ported and not small so spread them apart good amount and push little bit forward. Hope you got some 23,6-24" speaker stands. Atacama SLX600 are very sturdy if you look something that won´t be easily knocked, however you need to "fasten" the speakers to stands somehow if you are scared kids will knock them down. When you add center channel try to buy the Silver C350 over the C150. It will make big difference to movies and will be worth every penny. You need to have bit more space for it though due to height.

Hope you got discount from the Silver 100s cause they just announced new Silver range. If you didn`t then return them and buy from somewhere else who gives discount cause you shouldn´t pay full price!!! Notice you need to buy the center channel quite soon if you want to have the same range cause it will be discontinued soon!

This is the new range which will be out in stores very soon:

This is the old range which you most likely bought:

Which av-receiver model you bought? Yamaha RX-A4A should be available around november/december if further delays won`t be coming. It will have full set of hdmi 2.1 inputs/outputs and the firmware upgrade should be put out soon when they are available.

Is that SVS SB4000?
Hey, thanks! I planned on placing them pretty far apart (at least I think so) at least TV width distance. I hadn’t heard about the new line, grrr. The place we ordered has a 60 day in-home trial/return though, so if the new ones come out and they have good reviews (and we like the MA) then maybe we can upgrade to the new line. We didn’t get a discount on them, but I’ll keep my eye out for sales.

Thanks for the tip about buying the center soon! I didn’t even think about that. Though that being said, we had discussed getting it within a month.

The stands I ordered were 26” (Sanus SF26), they were recommended when I ordered the speakers.

Yes, the sub is the SB4000. I’m super excited to hear that thing! The reason I picked the sealed one is because the seller advised that while it doesn’t punch as low as the ported one for movies it was still very good and musical, my wife liked the design better, it was cheaper, and it was smaller. It was a debate between the ported 3000 and the sealed 4000.

The speakers and stands are set to deliver on Monday. The sub is due Friday. The TV is due Saturday, so I’m sure we’ll be listening to some music this week, before the TV comes in.

I picked up a Denon S540BT. It was cheap and in-stock. Since the sub budget was blown waaaay out of proportion I had to cut back elsewhere, so the center and receiver were downgraded. I also really didn’t want to spend 1500 on an almost perfect receiver when I can hopefully get the Yamaha a4a soon, which looks like it should check off all the boxes for us.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
You should return them for the new range without doubt or find dealer that gives noticeable discount. The 7G is fully new design so you don`t need to wait for any reviews, it is better but also will be out in US in fall what ever that means. Also the new center channel called C250 is bit more compact which is likely helpfull in your situation! However if you stick with the "old" range then buy the C350. I will try to find out discounted prices for you. Shame you couldn´t wait.

You should have checked the top plate size with the speaker stands! Why they recommend something with such small top plate as Silver 100 is not small speakers? You should never trust blindly on business man as they clearly are selling what they benefit the most without checking what would be most optimal product.

Sounds like the SB4000 was good compromise. It won`t do what the PB3000 does with movies and you aren`t getting any help from the massive room so you are losing lot especially in the deep bass region, but will surely please wife more and huge step up from the 3000 Micro you considered earlier. Not sure how it was cheaper unless some ex-demo unit as PB3000 costs 1400$, but i think you would have gotten it close to 1100$ as one member said who lives in US. Also SVS is having sale day tuesday so low prices for outlet products, but if you feel the SB4000 is largest you can fit then stick with it no worries!

This feels bit rushed. I hope you can return the Denon later? It`s really low model, crap if i may say straight. At least don´t make any decisions regarding speakers with that unit. It´s made to run cheapest budget speakers.
 

Kayan

Novice Member
You should return them for the new range without doubt or find dealer that gives noticeable discount. The 7G is fully new design so you don`t need to wait for any reviews, it is better but also will be out in US in fall what ever that means. Also the new center channel called C250 is bit more compact which is likely helpfull in your situation! However if you stick with the "old" range then buy the C350. I will try to find out discounted prices for you. Shame you couldn´t wait.

You should have checked the top plate size with the speaker stands! Why they recommend something with such small top plate as Silver 100 is not small speakers? You should never trust blindly on business man as they clearly are selling what they benefit the most without checking what would be most optimal product.

Sounds like the SB4000 was good compromise. It won`t do what the PB3000 does with movies and you aren`t getting any help from the massive room so you are losing lot especially in the deep bass region, but will surely please wife more and huge step up from the 3000 Micro you considered earlier. Not sure how it was cheaper unless some ex-demo unit as PB3000 costs 1400$, but i think you would have gotten it close to 1100$ as one member said who lives in US. Also SVS is having sale day tuesday so low prices for outlet products, but if you feel the SB4000 is largest you can fit then stick with it no worries!

This feels bit rushed. I hope you can return the Denon later? It`s really low model, crap if i may say straight. At least don´t make any decisions regarding speakers with that unit. It´s made to run cheapest budget speakers.
I got the Silver 100s hooked up last night and listened to 2 songs. Holy crap they sound good! During the second song I tried to cut my finger off with a box cutter while opening up the sub... that cut the fun short, and instead of listening to some more music with great bass added, I went to get stitches.

I got the sub hooked up today, and it sounds good, great even! It's much more impactful than my old one, but I need to tinker with it. The wifey said, "Well, is big, much bigger than our old one, but this one looks much better." She approves!

I set up the AVR last night, before the finger attempted to flee.... the setup was so basic, and kind of cheap feeling, but it works for now. We'll see how it integrates with the TV when it's delivered Saturday. I'm not thrilled with it, but I know it's only temporary until the true 2.1 ones release.

I'll post pictures once I figure out some kind of basic placement.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Great man! It´s only getting better when you get the higher quality receiver which is going to affect both on speakers and sub. Yamaha has support for wireless surround speakers (Music Cast 20) if you get the bug to get the effects flying in room, however you need to have wall sockets near by for each (power), but no speaker wires to hide!
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Front LR speakers - you ideally try and form an equilateral triangle between the main listing position and the speakers, you don't want them too close together or too far apart.

I can't get over excited about Subs (vs. the rest of the speaker system) - 99% of a movie is dialogue so skimping on the Front LR or LRC to enable a larger Sub makes no sense to me!

AVR - be wary of 'checking all the boxes', those boxes don't guarantee a sound you like! That said I have been installing Yamaha Stereo and AVR systems for 35 years and they deliver a decent sound and are very reliable.

Joe
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Front LR speakers - you ideally try and form an equilateral triangle between the main listing position and the speakers, you don't want them too close together or too far apart.

I can't get over excited about Subs (vs. the rest of the speaker system) - 99% of a movie is dialogue so skimping on the Front LR or LRC to enable a larger Sub makes no sense to me!

AVR - be wary of 'checking all the boxes', those boxes don't guarantee a sound you like! That said I have been installing Yamaha Stereo and AVR systems for 35 years and they deliver a decent sound and are very reliable.

Joe

I don´t feel he skimped on speakers that much, although the original plan changed some it seems but the Silver 100s are far from budget speakers and they are quite large & capable for standmount speakers (8" mid-bass drivers) so decent compromise to fill that large room, you can check AVF review below if not familiar. He is buying Yamaha Aventage receiver later when they available, that cheap Denon is not acceptable partner. Agreed Yamahas are very reliable and sound great. The new models are finally arriving in 1-2 month time so the Denon is just to get started. :)

 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'I tried to cut my finger off with a box cutter while opening up the sub...' - hope the finger recovers, if it's not your finger you have to be careful not cutting the speaker cabinets and some cardboard boxes are pretty sharp too.

Joe
 

Kayan

Novice Member
Front LR speakers - you ideally try and form an equilateral triangle between the main listing position and the speakers, you don't want them too close together or too far apart.

I can't get over excited about Subs (vs. the rest of the speaker system) - 99% of a movie is dialogue so skimping on the Front LR or LRC to enable a larger Sub makes no sense to me!

AVR - be wary of 'checking all the boxes', those boxes don't guarantee a sound you like! That said I have been installing Yamaha Stereo and AVR systems for 35 years and they deliver a decent sound and are very reliable.

Joe
This receiver I got is God-awful. It doesn't work right, and I'm not sure if it's an issue with the AVR or the AVR just sucks. We got our TV yesterday, yay! But the source inputs are not working. Some I get sound but no video, but when I plug directly into the TV it works.

Would you recommend the A4A line of receivers or an Onkyo RZ50?

Also, yup, we need the center. I confirmed that watching a movie last night. I kind of already figured that though.
I don´t feel he skimped on speakers that much, although the original plan changed some it seems but the Silver 100s are far from budget speakers and they are quite large & capable for standmount speakers (8" mid-bass drivers) so decent compromise to fill that large room, you can check AVF review below if not familiar. He is buying Yamaha Aventage receiver later when they available, that cheap Denon is not acceptable partner. Agreed Yamahas are very reliable and sound great. The new models are finally arriving in 1-2 month time so the Denon is just to get started. :)

I am thoroughly amazed at the sound these Silver 100s put out. They fill our space with fantastic sound, and even have decent bass without the sub. The sub takes it to another level, however I wish I'd settled on the SB3000 instead.
'I tried to cut my finger off with a box cutter while opening up the sub...' - hope the finger recovers, if it's not your finger you have to be careful not cutting the speaker cabinets and some cardboard boxes are pretty sharp too.

Joe
I got 4 stitches. It hurts a lot, but it will heal.
 
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Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
This receiver I got is God-awful. It doesn't work right, and I'm not sure if it's an issue with the AVR or the AVR just sucks. We got our TV yesterday, yay! But the source inputs are not working. Some I get sound but no video, but when I plug directly into the TV it works.

Would you recommend the A4A line of receivers or an Onkyo RZ50?

Also, yup, we need the center. I confirmed that watching a movie last night. I kind of already figured that though.

I am thoroughly amazed at the sound these Silver 100s put out. They fill our space with fantastic sound, and even have decent bass without the sub. The sub takes it to another level, however I wish I'd settled on the SB3000 instead.

I got 4 stitches. It hurts a lot, but it will heal.

Just wait until you get the new receiver everything will sound even better. But i still feel you should have got much better pricing or wait for the new model arrive as we are getting close for the arrival. Don´t forget they have new wood veneer finishes also and the center channel is physically bit more smaller but they have kept the 3-way design still which is important. Dimensions below:


(Including Grille and Terminals (H x W x D))​


Old model C350:

(91/4 x 221/16 x 105/8")



New model C250:

(87/64 x 1816/64 x 1045/64")



Onkyo RZ-50 really needs laptop pc for you to get the most out of the Dirac Live software plus there is learning curve what to do so it´s not as "plug and play" as example Yamahas basic YPAO setup and i would also buy the higher quality Umik-1 microphone which adds cost about 80$ to get most accurate results! The machine will be shipped with cheaper mic.

I don´t think you would be disappointed with the upcoming Yamaha A4A either. 30th September was the date they should be in stock, but i fear it`s pushed bit more forward. You can pre-order it though. This will make the Denon feel like a toy afterwards. :)

If we forget the size difference SB4000 is better choice for your large open space! The placement will be critical though. You can do some testing now if you have few spots available there, just run the setup again with mic held at seated ear height. Boom arm mic stand would be recommended purchase which ever receiver you decide to buy to get best results when running the setup in multiple spots (within 1-2feet keeping the mic at same height on each), but i think you will need some small adapter for the mic if not opting for the clip.

Amazon product
 

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Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Stiches - hopefully heals soon.

AVR - could be faulty or it may be settings in the AVR or Source which is creating the 'no audio' issue, you can also have issues with individual streams if you get things wrong. A quick search on these forums and you will see that AVR's are complex beasts with all sorts of potential for hassle no matter which brand or model you go with.

Room - your open space is going to be a challenge if you are hoping to create any form, of 'surround' sound. Given the ability to try it out it would be interesting to test a 2.0/2.1 system vs. a 5.1 (or larger) system where you spend the same monies on the two systems!

Loudspeakers - I would be wanting to try out a set of floor standing full range for your Front LR.

Joe
 

Kayan

Novice Member
Hello to those who helped me out with all of this. Here's my mostly finished setup:
20210928_220217.jpg


We ended up getting the matching center, because... well frankly it sucked with the phantom center - at least for movies. It sounds really good. I'm still a bit concerned about the L&R being knocked over, but my wife decided we'd keep the bookshelf sides.

Thanks to everyone who helped. It sounds much better than our last 3.1 system.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Hello to those who helped me out with all of this. Here's my mostly finished setup:
View attachment 1581195

We ended up getting the matching center, because... well frankly it sucked with the phantom center - at least for movies. It sounds really good. I'm still a bit concerned about the L&R being knocked over, but my wife decided we'd keep the bookshelf sides.

Thanks to everyone who helped. It sounds much better than our last 3.1 system.

Great man, did you get the Yamaha receiver already? I see Best Buy has been shipping them to customers in US, where other shops having issues getting them.

You also bought the latest Silvers it seems, they look great and i bet sound amazing.
 

Kayan

Novice Member
Great man, did you get the Yamaha receiver already? I see Best Buy has been shipping them to customers in US, where other shops having issues getting them.

You also bought the latest Silvers it seems, they look great and i bet sound amazing.
Oh yeah, I forgot. I returned the crappy Denon I got. It didn't work correctly. I got the Yamaha a4a from Best Buy. It's great, even though none of the gaming features are turned on yet. I've got the Xbox and ps5 plugged into the TV directly and then audio through arc. This is the first receiver that just works (gaming features withstanding).

I didn't want to get it so quickly, as the budget ballooned, but I guess we are at least set for now.

The speakers are the Silver 100s and c350.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Oh yeah, I forgot. I returned the crappy Denon I got. It didn't work correctly. I got the Yamaha a4a from Best Buy. It's great, even though none of the gaming features are turned on yet. I've got the Xbox and ps5 plugged into the TV directly and then audio through arc. This is the first receiver that just works (gaming features withstanding).

I didn't want to get it so quickly, as the budget ballooned, but I guess we are at least set for now.

The speakers are the Silver 100s and c350.

Nice! To make sure as you have ran the YPAO setup with the mic, AFTER did you change speaker for Small for all three and checked the crossovers for speakers? I would set them at 80hz for starters. In most cases you need some manual tweaking. Would be nice to see which settings you have now there.. Don`t go correct anything that you don´t know, example subwoofer distance if it shows further etc.
 

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