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Help please setting up my i Scan HD+

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by DJW7387, Mar 16, 2005.

  1. DJW7387

    DJW7387
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    Hello

    I am very new to HD equipment and wondered if someone would be kind enough to help me with the correct frame rates and picture setting

    I have the following equipment

    Sky+(S Video), X-box (HD Component lead) and a

    Harmon Kardon 25 DVD player (Component lead) connected to a

    DVDO i scan HD+ upscaler (Analogue to Component for plasma and HD lead for projector) that is connected to a

    Pioneer PDP434HDE plasma screen and an

    Infocus 5700 projector

    I am unsure what settings I should be using on the scaler to get the best picture on my plasma and projector from the DVD, X-Box and Sky+.


    Much appreciated
     
  2. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    for a profeesional set-up try www.homecinemaengineering.com IT does really work............................ or if you want to DIY it..... need to know how it is connected and to what... Model numbers and cables.
     
  3. DJW7387

    DJW7387
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    Connections as below

    All of the below are connected to the DVDO i scan HD+ that is connected to the the pioneer pdp434hde plasma via an Analogue component lead / and the Infocus5700 projector via a DVI cable

    Sky+ - Chord S-video lead

    X-box - HD component lead

    Harmon Kardon 25 DVD player - Chord Component lead
     
  4. Chris5

    Chris5
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    for starters, make sure film mode is set to OFF for sky+,
    secondly, using s-video for sky will degrade the "sky experience"

    also adjust output framerate until no juddering is seen with the 'Judder' test pattern
    adjust size on your plasma untill thr horiz & vertical test patterns are uniformly gray. there is an earlier thread that covers all this very well.
     
  5. Demon00

    Demon00
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    Where can I find the Judder test pattern? DVE or AVIA?
    As well as the horiz & vertical test patterns ?

    Daniel
     
  6. Chris5

    Chris5
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    the test patterns are built into the scaler
     
  7. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Except when watching films on Sky.

    StooMonster
     
  8. Chris5

    Chris5
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    any material from sky will not display properly when I have film mode set to anything but off on my setup, I get judder, (vertically & horizontally) and frame flashes. Things seems worse through SDI which is how I am watching sky.

    I think this is because sky alway output 25 frames per second, but HD+ thinks its 24 f/s film and hence it all goes wrong
     
  9. hornydragon

    hornydragon
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    would be better with a DVi splitter and feed both DVi from HD+ could also consider SDi mod if Sky+ is V1
     
  10. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Works perfectly in "auto" on my setup, which is RGBs out of Sky to iScan HD.

    Perhaps it's a problem with the SDI?

    If you watch with "film mode off" you are forcing "video mode on", which means no 2:2 pull-down and "weave" deinterlacing but simple "bob" (single-field interpolation)instead; which will make film based materials (movies and american tv dramas) look not their best.

    Film mode deinterlacing is one of the things SiI504 chip inside DVDO iScan HD is very good at, and I would rather have that working properly than minor improvement SDI gives over RGBs because it will look better.

    Check http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html and look at the difference between "weave" and "single-field interpolation" near the bottom.

    StooMonster
     
  11. Chris5

    Chris5
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    I can only say that that is not my experience.

    I would also have to disagree about your 'minor improvement' remark, more like Big improvement.
     
  12. StooMonster

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    What's not your experience? Turning "film mode" off and forcing "bob" style detinterlacing for movie and video based content; if you haven't seen SiI504 working in "weave" mode because of your judder problem you could be missing a lot.

    Evidentally you have an issue if film mode is making your SDI input jump and judder and frame flashes. Saying that, the SiI504 does comb video sometimes when it thinks it's film, and it results in weird behaviour; but I haven't seen that in ages. Perhaps you should contact DVDO's technical support?

    Interesting about SDI vs RGBs, how are you connecting to display? DVI or VGA? There was an interesting session at The Event 2 where SDI was compared to RGBs input on scaler from DVD player, and difference was negligible (according to most people); I'm sad to say this is my only experience of comparing the two.

    StooMonster
     
  13. Chris5

    Chris5
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    I assume SDI SKY is so much better than RGB is because of the the poor DACS that pace must be using.

    FYI, I'm going DVI from scaler to TV so have a digitial chain from SKY Studio right the way through to the DLP chip on my TV, Nice!

    The picture is soo much sharper and clearer with SDI, for example when the camera pans across the audiance at a theatre, everyone in the audience is really clear and well defined, not just a gray mush that you get through the scart, also you dont get a funny green tint that you can sometimes get when things are supposed to be gray or off white. wathching a film on sky is like watching a dvd (ie sharp and clear), off course you still dont get as much picture detail as DVD due to skys compression, but it is still very sharp and clean, you can also see the analogue noise in the original recording on some outside shoots that you just dont see with RGBs because the noise floor of SDI is so much lower.
     
  14. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Wonder if SDI would be that much clearer on my kit? I have none of the problems you describe with your RGBs; my RGBs picture is really pixel sharp and clear, no funny green tint either. Good examples are the menus and interactive television screens, because one can see individual pixels; these look like computer connected to screen, no shadowing or colour bleed or ghosting or banding or anything that looks remotely like signal degredation.

    This could be that RGBs output is better on Sky+ v2 as opposed to Sky+ v1.

    Or it could depend on connection between Sky+ and iScan; i.e. how it's cabled up.

    I use a big, fat, solid scart to 4 RCA coverter plug in the Sky+ scart socket; and then four Mark Grant silver component cables for the Red, Green, Blue, and Sync to carry signal to iScan.

    No sign of poor DACs, and iScan works properly so deinterlaces film content with "weave" as it should.

    Although your SDI sounds top notch, there is obviously some kind of problem otherwise you wouldn't have had to turn off "film mode".

    StooMonster
     
  15. Chris5

    Chris5
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    There is no problem with sky RGBs ...untill you see it with SDI. I was using a SQUART cable before SDI.

    I've heard talk on these forums that the HD is not good at deciding what is and what is not film.
    I have a hunch that when film mode is detected by my IScan SDI it outputs the film as 60Hz. I only think this because the judder is very much like how my TV (Optoma RD50) handles 60Hz material (ie very badly, it has to throw away 10 frames). however this does not explain why I get frame flashes on virtually al material when there is a scene change.
     
  16. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Hrm... your posts have tempted me to consider swapping my Sky+ v2 for an SDI modded v1; I just wish one could mod all Sky+ boxes. :(

    It's the Silicon Image SiI504 deinterlacer that is the cause of the problem, and the same thing is true of all other scalers and DVD players that it's in.

    "Not good" is a little unfair, 2:2 pulldown is much harder to detect than 3:2 pulldown, and the SiI504 does well for deinterlacers in it's class.

    Specifically what the problem is that sometimes the SiI504 gets a false-positive, and detects film when it's actually video and you get a combing artefact for a moment or two. That's it.

    If the iScan is outputting a 50Hz SDI signal at 60Hz when it detects film then there is a serious bug in the software; I would complain to DVDO, as they are usually really good at fixing problems like that. You could send a PM to Dale Adams (on this board, he is DVDO's chief engineer)

    StooMonster
     
  17. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Was investigating SDI over in the Sky forums and came across posts saying that Pace Sky+ v1 picture quality via RGBs is inferior to v2 boxes.

    Here's a link to first one: http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195206

    StooMonster
     
  18. Chris5

    Chris5
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    I definitely have a single frame flash on most if not all material from one camera shot to the next (scene change) when film mode is set to anything but OFF.

    Generally mild motion judder is worse with my SDI than RGBs particularly with Mid Summer Murder and Inspector Lyndley type programs.

    If Film mode is not set to OFF then some US originating material will judder in an unwatchable manor, the worst culprit is X-Men tv series on sky one, but interestingly Stargate SG1 (also on sky one) is fine.

    But the improvement to sharpnes and clarity with SGI makes it worth while for me.
     
  19. Vince M

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    ..Shouldnt do..?
     
  20. binbag

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    Generally mild motion judder is worse with my SDI than RGBs particularly with Mid Summer Murder and Inspector Lyndley type programs.

    Thats not judder - it's your tv having a content convulsion! :D

    I went for a V1 box with the intent of eventually upgrading to SDI. Experiences like Chris5's and the onset of HD are giving me grounds to hold on a while. I wouldn't want to spend the best part of £500 to find its only a marginal improvement over what can be a cracking picture (Sky permitting) negated by glitches that we all know you'll notice more than the program being watched.

    Another thing is that I've seen HD in action - is there anywhere with a SDI demo going full time?
     
  21. binbag

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    Going back to the OP, if there is any difference in distance from the scaler to the display, especially over 5m, I'd consider going VGA for the longer as the HD is no slouch at VGA and DVI has issues at longer distances.

    Loan a DVI DVD player and see what you're missing.

    That'll free up a COM socket for RGBs from Sky (need a £6 bit from keene).

    If the 5700 is as forgiving as my 4805 it'll show most of what the HD sends it. Work towards a 1:1 on the chequerboard test page and compare that with the other formats - usually 1:1 is as simple as matching the 'native' resolution with the chart in the 'FORMAT' menu in 'OUTPUT SETTINGS'.

    There are probably thousands of settings in the machine but you'll only need to use a few - the trick is knowing which to use and that is down to preference.
     
  22. StooMonster

    StooMonster
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    Not when it's 50Hz material from Sky digital it shouldn't.

    StooMonster
     
  23. Chris5

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    Infact I have now resolved the filmmode problem (no solution though) There is a 'feature' in the IScanHD that if you have film mode ON and don't have the output Frame rate locked to 50 or 60 Hz, then you do get the nasty tearing effects. Unfortunatly my Optoma RD50 likes 49.83 Hz (else it judders). so i can't lock the output.
     
  24. Jasonjo

    Jasonjo
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    Probs why I haven't seen this issue with my SDI source, as I lock both 50 and 60Hz sources...

    Cheers

    JJ
     

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