Help please - Crossover recap

curtig

Active Member
Hi Gents

Can someone help me with picking capacitors for my Tag McLaren crossovers please as I’d like to recap them.

Can someone tell me what the equivalent would be to these caps as I believe most caps are now measured in UF etc and I can’t find the exact same caps for sale.

I just want the speakers to sound as they intended to sound when they left the factory.

I have jotted down the numbers I can see below:

ALCAP
33MFD
90VNP
+ - 10LL

ALCAP
100MFD
90VNP
+ - 10LL

Expotus 17W 2.2ohm J

Expotus 17W 4.7ohm J

Thank you for your help in advance.

Curtis
 

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Ugg10

Distinguished Member
From what I understand MFD = uF = Microfarad. So you have two capacitors of 33 and 100uF with 90V rating and (maybe) +/-10% tolerance. The also seem to be made by Alcap which is stocked by Falcon Acoustics in the UK. Hifi Collective have an extensive range of capacitors as well.

The two resistors are self explanatory (2.2 and 4.7 ohm and 17w rating) but you may have better luck finding a 20W version again at Falcon or Hifi Collective or possibly Willys Hifi.

Hope this helps.
 

John7

Well-known Member
These capacitrors are Axial (the lead configuration, radial is the other type) Bi-Polar elecrolytics. Voltage can exceed what your present ones are without problem. Tolerance can be 10% or better.

Can't help with a supplier at the moment but you could look here for starters.....

 

Kapkirk

Active Member
You can use these. No need to change the resistors.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Hi,

I am currently figuring out a similar issue, as I am looking to recap a pair of vintage speakers that also use Alcap capacitors. Some of them seem tricky to get hold of now. Maybe Alcap is discontinued and people are selling old stock? I spoke to a guy from a hifi parts retailer who suggested using better quality caps like Jantzen, as Alcap is a sort-of budget brand and while there are other similar brands (eg. F&T electrolytic caps) using better caps may change the sound, but for the better, or, it may just be the same, as long was the MFD (microfarads) is the same and the tolerance is same (e.g. 10%) then you should be fine. Only issue is the size. The Alcaps are small compared to some of the more expensive ones, which can be 2 or 3 times the size. May be an issue fitting it on the board. At least this was his opinion. I am tempted to give it a go too. Good luck to us both :)
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
Depending on whether you buy into the boutique capacitor industry or not here is a good resource that compares a load of capacitors, but you may need to use it as a general guide rather than definitive gospel (Pinch of salt added to taste).


I bought Claritycap PX for my protection caps as they seem to be a good price for a solid brand, Jantzen cross caps are often used in the bass section (likely to be the 100uF unit) as well, Mundorf is another favourite of DIYers, set a price and take your pick. Also if you have space it may be worth looking at two or three smaller caps in parallel to make the 100uF one.
 

FootHealer

Active Member
Depending on whether you buy into the boutique capacitor industry or not here is a good resource that compares a load of capacitors, but you may need to use it as a general guide rather than definitive gospel (Pinch of salt added to taste).


I bought Claritycap PX for my protection caps as they seem to be a good price for a solid brand, Jantzen cross caps are often used in the bass section (likely to be the 100uF unit) as well, Mundorf is another favourite of DIYers, set a price and take your pick. Also if you have space it may be worth looking at two or three smaller caps in parallel to make the 100uF one.
The DIY guy I spoke to recommended Mundorf caps for the LS4a speaker crossover. They seem fairly priced, at least compared to some other brands. I plan to get some Alcaps (the 20MFD and 4.7MFD), but cannot find 8MFD anywhere, so going with a similar sized option. The Mundorf are about 3 times the size of the Alcap and I would struggle fitting it on the board.

I saw a test on Audio Science Review where I guy changed caps in a speaker crossover, using a few different brands, cheap and expensive, and he found no significant measurable difference. Didn't say if it sounded better, but apparently it didn't change the speakers specs all that much...at least when he did it. I am happy for it to sound the way it did when it was made, or at least close to that. At the moment it sounds like someone draped a blanket over the speakers ;)

Anyway, don't want to hijack the discussion. Take care.
 

Ugg10

Distinguished Member
@FootHealer A bit like speaker cable/interconnectors there are those that do and those that don’t hear a difference when it comes to capacitors, however, there is a bit more science in capacitor differences.

In general it seems that more difference may be heard for the series capacitors in the tweeter circuit than the parallel ones in the bass, on a lot of diy designs sold as kits they go up a level in capacitor cost (performance?) for the tweeter circuit. This is born out a bit in the humble Hifi descriptions where clarity and soundstage are often mentioned which tropically comes from the treble end of the frequency spectrum. But as said pinch od salt may be required.

Have a search through Hificollective for the 8uF, there is a Claritycap SA of that value at around £10. Again you can make up the figure using series/parallel circuits but this obviously adds bulk.

Falcon have 8uF alcap in as well as the other two values.

 

FootHealer

Active Member
@FootHealer A bit like speaker cable/interconnectors there are those that do and those that don’t hear a difference when it comes to capacitors, however, there is a bit more science in capacitor differences.

In general it seems that more difference may be heard for the series capacitors in the tweeter circuit than the parallel ones in the bass, on a lot of diy designs sold as kits they go up a level in capacitor cost (performance?) for the tweeter circuit. This is born out a bit in the humble Hifi descriptions where clarity and soundstage are often mentioned which tropically comes from the treble end of the frequency spectrum. But as said pinch od salt may be required.

Have a search through Hificollective for the 8uF, there is a Claritycap SA of that value at around £10. Again you can make up the figure using series/parallel circuits but this obviously adds bulk.

Falcon have 8uF alcap in as well as the other two values.

Thanks...I'm going to order the caps today. Will spend a little more on the caps in the tweeter circuit, as you recommend. It makes sense to me. Thanks...
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
Thanks...I'm going to order the caps today. Will spend a little more on the caps in the tweeter circuit, as you recommend. It makes sense to me. Thanks...
Be careful of changing the original NON Polarized Electrolytic caps for the higher quality Polyester and the even better Polypropylene caps, the Non polarized electrolytics have a much higher ESR which is especially designed into the circuit design and sound modeling, If you change original caps for Polypropylene or polyester type it will screw the sound up, The treble will be at a slightly higher output and will sound thinner. Apart from messing up the crossover they are much more expensive and much larger physically so my not even fit into the X-Over properly.

I know this as I have done many older speaker component upgrades/refreshes and doing this will throw the speakers original spec out, and it will not sound right. When you go from a cap like the original NP electrolytic which has high electrical series resistance to a Polyprop cap where the ESR is much lower it will be most noticeable between the midrange and treble response ie; to bright and too thin, as the circuit actually requires the low ESR of the NP caps to match the resistors and coils of the crossover circuit. the resistance values are quite small but it is definitely audible .

If it was designed with NP electrolytic then use the same type if you can, the Alcap brand were good sounding caps and in actual fact are still found in some really high end speakers today. changing to expensive Polypropylene wont improve the sound compared with the original design.(unless the original design used polypropylene caps in the first place.
If you cant source the alcap brand the next best thing would be to use the mundorf Non Polarized Electrolytics. shown on the willys hifi s web store, as above
 
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FootHealer

Active Member
Be careful of changing the original NON Polarized Electrolytic caps for the higher quality Polyester and the even better Polypropylene caps, the Non polarized electrolytics have a much higher ESR which is especially designed into the circuit design and sound modeling, If you change original caps for Polypropylene or polyester type it will screw the sound up, The treble will be at a slightly higher output and will sound thinner. Apart from messing up the crossover they are much more expensive and much larger physically so my not even fit into the X-Over properly.

I know this as I have done many older speaker component upgrades/refreshes and doing this will throw the speakers original spec out, and it will not sound right. When you go from a cap like the original NP electrolytic which has high electrical series resistance to a Polyprop cap where the ESR is much lower it will be most noticeable between the midrange and treble response ie; to bright and too thin, as the circuit actually requires the low ESR of the NP caps to match the resistors and coils of the crossover circuit. the resistance values are quite small but it is definitely audible .

If it was designed with NP electrolytic then use the same type if you can, the Alcap brand were good sounding caps and in actual fact are still found in some really high end speakers today. changing to expensive Polypropylene wont improve the sound compared with the original design.(unless the original design used polypropylene caps in the first place.
If you cant source the alcap brand the next best thing would be to use the mundorf Non Polarized Electrolytics. shown on the willys hifi s web store, as above
Gosh, thanks for that. Could have wasted a lot of money. I think it will be best to get a professional to do this, since I have basically no experience with this sort of thing. I have been in touch with Wilmslow Audio and will send it to them. May cost a bit more, but at least they know what they are doing...I clearly have no idea 🧐
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
It really isn't difficult as long as you have reasonable soldering skills, it's just a matter of swapping like for like. You only really need to change the capacitors. A good idea would be to take pictures of the components in situ before removing them so you have a reference.
 

curtig

Active Member
Thank you for all the comments and help! So I’ve ordered some caps figured I’d give it a go myself as it looks pretty straight forward. I’m going to leave the resistors as they are.

Can you guys tell me if the values I’ve ordered are ok as they are slightly different.


Originals vs new ones ordered:

ALCAP Vs Mundorf ECaps low loss bipolar

33MFD Vs 33FD
90VNP Vs 100V
+ - 10LL. Vs +-5%

ALCAP Vs Mundorf ECaps low loss bipolar

100MFD Vs 100MF
90VNP Vs 100V
+ - 10LL Vs +-5%
 
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curtig

Active Member
From what I understand MFD = uF = Microfarad. So you have two capacitors of 33 and 100uF with 90V rating and (maybe) +/-10% tolerance. The also seem to be made by Alcap which is stocked by Falcon Acoustics in the UK. Hifi Collective have an extensive range of capacitors as well.

The two resistors are self explanatory (2.2 and 4.7 ohm and 17w rating) but you may have better luck finding a 20W version again at Falcon or Hifi Collective or possibly Willys Hifi.

Hope this helps.
Thank you for your help.

Can I ask if I was to replace the resistors with 20W ones would that mess things up? I’m struggling to find a good quality audio resistor which is 17W and 4.7 ohm’s.
 

dogfonos

Well-known Member
Can I ask if I was to replace the resistors with 20W ones would that mess things up?
No, the result would be the same. A 20W resistor (and any resistor rated above 17W) would simply handle more power. However, higher-powered resistors may get a little bulky. If you can't get hold of the exact resistance value, two resistors of suitable value* (Ohms) could be employed instead, either in series or parallel.

* Falcon, Hifi Collective or any other reputable supplier will guide you as to suitable resistor values.
 

curtig

Active Member
No, the result would be the same. A 20W resistor (and any resistor rated above 17W) would simply handle more power. However, higher-powered resistors may get a little bulky. If you can't get hold of the exact resistance value, two resistors of suitable value* (Ohms) could be employed instead, either in series or parallel.

* Falcon, Hifi Collective or any other reputable supplier will guide you as to suitable resistor values.
Ok perfect, so for example I could use a 20W resistor rather than the original 17W but as long as the resistor is 4.7 ohms the same as the original everything should be fine?

Thank you for your help
 

Kapkirk

Active Member
You really don't need Higher than 10/11w. Tag Mac over specced their gear.
These MOX resistors will work perfectly and will NOT overheat unless you are driving them at insane volume levels for long periods with extremely powerful amplifiers.
 

curtig

Active Member
Hi David, yes it was worth it!

So the Alcap capacitors must have be shot in my bass modules. These alcaps aren’t very good even when new, tag really cut corners with them. So I replaced them with mundorf capacitors and honestly it sounded like a different set of speakers (in a good way) night and day. But hey these Alcaps are 22 years old.

I then decided to change the resistors and the capacitors again to jantzen film capacitors and mills resistors and it’s taken it up another level. These are massive and they only just fit! So I’m going to stick with where I am for the moment but my end goal is to end up with a set of F1’s 😂

The calliopes already have film capacitors so it was just the bass modules letting it down. Film capacitors last alot longer than electrolytic capacitors. The capacitors in the calliopes are made by ICW who make Clarity caps so they are pretty good standard.

Next I’m going to get my AV32R recapped and have my 250x3R upgraded. I plan to send these to Kevin green although my 250x3R will become 250x2R with the extra capacitors!

How’s things your end? There’s a set of F1’S for sale in America $7500 usd. However it’s collection only 😂
 

david1961

Active Member
Hi Curtis

Sounds like a good result

You Guys in the UK are lucky to have Kevin to keep the Tag gear running well

I would like to get my amps done by him but freight is the killer

Those F1s would look great at your place they are a MK 1 spec Mk 2 has 3 screws around the tweeter

Be interested to know how the amps go

David
 

curtig

Active Member
Thanks david!

Is there much of a difference sound wise between the MK1 and MK2’s do you know?
 

vm1451

Active Member
Interested in this, (as I like tinkering!)
My speakers are probably twenty five years, (+), old. I've already played about with them by removing the passive radiators,), which seem to be a complete waste of time. In fact since removing them I have put them back to take some REW measurements and pretty much proved they do ore harm then good. I have thought about buying some drivers to replace the passives, but understand, (from reading), that this could get a bit complex and so I backed off, although I'm interested to hear others views on this. I guess it would need me to build a new crossover?

Regarding the capacitors, would it be worth a change? Or is it possible to test the existing capacitors to understand their condition?
 

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