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help please!! beginer with a budget of 2k..

Discussion in 'TVs' started by davei, Mar 6, 2005.

  1. davei

    davei
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    hello,

    :lease:
    I am new to buying dlp's, plasmas etc so I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice?

    I have a budget of 2k and there are 3 sets i have seen and like:

    1)Sony KE42TS2 42" plasma (on offer in a shop for 2k as it is the last one - but i believe it usually retails for more??)
    2) sagem axium 50" dlp rear projection
    3) JVC GMV42 (on offer in r sounds for 1.5k including feet and speakers)

    It will be connected to sky plus digital and either a new home cinema system or hi fi speakers

    I know the axium is hdtv ready - and the sony isnt. I dont know about the JVC. Obviously it would be nice to get this one and save 500 pounds, but i still want the best for my money.

    could anyone give me any advice? thanks v much!!

    dave
     
  2. Les

    Les
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    Check out the Toshiba DLP models also. The 52" is about £1850 ish depending on where you look. I have one and have had none of the commonly reported problems such as screen door, rainbows, oil pintings, sparkly pictures. I use it mostly for Sky and DVD's - pictures all good.
     
  3. davei

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    thanks for that, going to comet later so will have a look at the tosh then.

    so would you opt for dlp before plasma then? The only problem i seem to think with the a lot of the dlp sets is the viewing angle and the darkness of the screen when you move to certain angles. as my front room is pretty big this could be an issue....
     
  4. mistycat

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    Hi, I hope this helps you as I am about to write a research paper on the intro of HDTV. I have also spent the last few months studying the DLP market.

    1. Do not go for the Sagen 40. If using Sagen go for the 45.

    2. Aviod plasma. There is a new generation of plasma around the corner, which tries to address the tradition problems of plasma. To gain the same pq with a plasma of a current generation DLP, one needs the equiv of 1920 by 1080 lines or greater.

    3. Do not purchase based on contrast ratio, as this is really a sales gimic. A friend of mine who does research into the human eyes tells me contrast is subjective. For example, have a look at the picie at Currys between a 10000:1 plasma verses CTV. How much differentiation can your eye distinguish? The intro of HDTV will not change this and set top boxes will have their own contrast setting (see the Australian and BBC white papers on STB and BBC 2004 white paper into their testing of STB (Toshiba).

    4. Forget the difference between 1080i and 720p. Both technology is future proof. The choice is personal. 720p is proven tech. without the pic problems of 1080i. Again, I refer you to research on the human eye. Definition of picture will become a non-issue, and is subjective. Number of lines will not make a big difference in the next 10-15 years. This timespan exceeds the life of a plasma, and the serviceable life of a DLP (although you can keep a DLP running for ever if you get a good one).

    5. Due to political considerations around licence fee negotiations and EU harminisation of standards, HDTV, outside of Sky, is unlikely to occur in this licence fee period, and is likely to form part of the political negotiation on the part of the BBC, in 2006/07, with a roll-out of ten years. This will happen due to the way in which the public/private broadcast ownership occurs in the UK. The BBC would prefer to wait for either 1.EU standards (five years off), 2.Political pressure of subscribers occurs to assist with licence fee negotiations, or 3.The 1080i issues are solved, alongside bandwith issues. They do not wish to go for a quick 720p solution, unless political pressure forces this. The likely outcome is going to be SKY subscribers and licence holders forcing political pressure and the standard being set by SKY (who are recommending to their partnership broadcasters to go for 720p, unless their is a substancial benefit going for 1080i, for specific formats). Therefore, the benefit of a future of 1080i is unlikely to be seen outside Australia for the next 10 years (Australia private broadcasters are broadcasting 1080i but have had no real benefit in this, they are just trying to future proof as a broadcaster due to the cost ratio of Australian broadcasting).

    5. Therefore, a good deal on a DLP (which gives much better pic depth on a large screen (see American research studies) than plasma, combined with 720p technology is futureproof for 10 years in real terms (by the way, even with 1080i in HD, the pic in 720p is supurb, but not as good as native 720p due to 1080i issues).

    6. Therefore, it is a personal choice as to which DLP. Personally I chose the Sammy 50 after seeing all the available models, including seeing some in the States, which should hit Euro shores in the next six months. Part of my decision was based on styling, most on pic quality, and part on future-proofing.

    I hope this helps.
     
  5. mistycat

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    By the way, the Sammy at Unbeatable.co.uk (highly recommended site) is roughly 2400 with delivery. If you are in Essex, it is on display and you are welcome to test at Currys Basildon, A127. I took many DVDs in and played them to study the rainbow etc. effects. I could not find any.
     
  6. mistycat

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    Ensure HDCP compliance. Even the BBC make comment on this. Ask here what you want to know about it. I found this website very useful as I was a latecomer to knowledge on this subject and the guys helped me with it.
     
  7. davei

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    thanks v much for your comprehensive reply.

    i am swayed towards the sagem 50 dlp, and am nipping to comet later where they have it for 1,999. the 5 year warranty is roughly 300 - but would you say an extended warranty is money well spent. have heard that they are often a rip off. (although i my girlfriend is pretty clumsy so i suppose it does cover accidental damage... )
     
  8. mrmoo

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    The Sagem 50" does not have HDCP and will be limited in the future. Your main source of HDTV will be Sky and this set is not compatible without an upgrade, that as yet does not exist.
     
  9. philip41

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    Why go for the HD 50, Comet have the HD-d45 at the same price, and it is HD ready.
     
  10. mistycat

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    I do have some bad news for you. The Sagen 50 is no good as the BBC begins HD broadcasting due to not being future proof. It does have a great picture but Comet has stopped showing it with HDTV on screen as it will not work in the UK with HD.

    HD is like going from black and white to colour and is about to take off in the UK. Next year HD DVD will replace standard DVD. Blue-ray, another system of HD will also.

    My best advice is to not make a snap purchase for 2k and do not listen to salesmen (who know the truth about the Sagen and the intro of HD). They are told to sell everything this year, as Curry/Comet have a lot of stock to sell off until the re-stock HD later this year. Unless they can sell, they are left with millions of useless stock! Even Sky is trying to sell of useless stock, that will be no good for their own HD system next year. Be very careful. They have targets to get rid of the non-HD compliant stock. SAGEN THEMSELVES SAY THIS WILL NOT WORK IN UK. There will not be an upgrade in the UK for the 50 to get HDCP, regardless of what Comet say! This will take High Court action. This is why they do not have HD plugged in.

    The pic quality is better on the sammy 50, and better on the Sagen 45, which was intro'd as their first UK HD compliant DLP.

    Regardless, and if you are not worried about future proof, then do not pay more than 1600. This would test Comet! I am sure you will find someone who will be happy to sell you theirs for 1600 on this website, as they made a mistake by buying it. See threads on the topic.

    Remember, buying the Sagen is like buying a B and W TV, when they were at their best, twelve months before colour came out.

    If you want the Sagen 50, wait three months and people will be selling them for 1k to get rid of them. Comet will withdraw them but is hoping to sell them off in the meantime.

    Do not be fooled by a nice pic (I almost was last year and almost bought the Sagen 50)
     
  11. mistycat

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    My mistake, I said do not go for the Sagen 40. This was a typo. I meant the Sagen 50
     
  12. St_ve

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    If you are after HDTV steer clear of the Sagem Axium 50" as it does not at present have HDCP & if this is not resolved you would be unable to have Sky hidef in 2006.
    I have only seen the Tosh with a poor source & compared to the other sets near it in Comet gave the worst picture they were all showing a Bruce Springsteen concert & faces lacked contrast oil painting look.When the picture changed to Shark Tale the Tosh had the better picture in comparision with the other sets although it was still a poor picture.
    The LG DLP is the cheapest DLP at present but it does suffer a lot from reflections.
    Be carefull of the Sammy's the cheaper models only have the HD3 chip & a lot of people prefer the HD2 or HD2+
    The Optoma RD50 has a very good picture but is unable to display NTSC region one DVD's without juddering unless you use a PC.
    Check out the link for a comparision of Plasma's LCD's & DLP's
    http://www.displaymate.com/ShootOut_Part_4.htm
     
  13. mistycat

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    Good advice Steve. That is why I went for the Sammy 50, now that they have solved the screen condensation problems.
     
  14. St_ve

    St_ve
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    I take it you have the Sammy with HD2+
    lovely looking set & would have been my first choice if it cost the same as my Optoma RD50 however
    Davei has a budget of £2k
    How did they solve the screen condensation issue?
     
  15. mistycat

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    Yep. As to the screen issue, not sure, but a friend of mine who works in a uni tech dept said Samsung changed something between batches on the prodn line. Not sure what they did. I know, rumour, but he is a wiz and is really into this stuff. I will see what I can find out this week.
     
  16. hornydragon

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    Mistycat i would be very interested in the research you are doing , but i also have to question a few of the points you have made...you seems to have a real downer on 1080i....why? its is currently being broadcast in Europe HD1, Australia and the US and i think the MUSE system in Japan......on MPEG 2 and being planned by Sky on MPEG 4. I also hope you are going use properly calibrated sets and correct ambientlight conditions for you research....(or is this going to be a theoretical paper written from other theoretical papers)
     
  17. davei

    davei
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    Thanks everyone for all your help - we were just getting ready to go out to comet to buy the sagem axium when we came back to the comp and saw the posts. eeek.

    so if we are now looking at the best dlp - and the most future proof - what would we be best with - the sammy 50 or the sagem 45?

    thanks again for the knowledgebale posts people!
     
  18. mistycat

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    Good points. No downer on 1080 but am considering the political and technical problems. Research based on Austn reports, American user reports, Austn and British enquiries, and my knowledge of the polical process in this matter as a lawyer and academic. Remember the 1080i Euro channel is private. Also, take a look at the Austn Govt backed sites on 1080 v 720. I think 1080 will poss become a world standard but this will take more years than I will own my Sammy.

    Will reply more fully when I have a moment
     
  19. mistycat

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    Personal Pref Dave. I can only comment on Sammy 50, as I am unsure of all the features of Sagen 45. Sagen fits your price range and Sammy is a stretch. See Sammy website or http://www.unbeatable.co.uk and input into search engine 'samsung 50' then follow bottom of two links. This has a good pic of the Samsung. They do have credit facilities if the extra 400 pounds is a stretch, and it is interest free. Currys cannot match Unbeatable. Tried this through a friend.

    Basically, as far as my eyes saw it (I have perfect unaided vision) both are pritty equal on picie. The Samsung is larger and sits on a pedistal. The Sagen can sit on a table. Ask st_ve about Sagen.
     
  20. davei

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  21. mistycat

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    Davei, same telle. The first link is the link with fuller details and no stand I think. Yes, this is one spectacular future proof telle. It is the choice of many here, and those with a bit extra have tended to go for the Sammy or Omtomo or something like that. Check the sammy to on Unbeatable.
     
  22. mistycat

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    Please Note My Prediction On Comet. Davei Saved You Some Cash!!!! 500 To Be Precise. Lol Sagen 50 Is Rubbish Without Hd Lol
     
  23. St_ve

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    As to picture quality of the Sagem HD d45 i havent seen it but have heard of problems with a speckled screen effect so would advise a demo before buying this set.
    Any demo in the Comet near me would be useless as regards the picture quality through sky, freeview broadcast TV ect as the source they use is so bad i advise going somewhere where they can give you a proper demo.
     
  24. mistycat

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    Cheers, I will. Thanks for the info. Note that today Comet has started a garage sale on the Sagen 50 (I had no idea!). My research led me to this conclusion. I would now recommend an easy to win class action against Comet for their representation of the 50 in HD! I hear they will swap!
     
  25. mistycat

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    Hi Steve! :hiya: Maree, Mistycat.
     
  26. pdundas

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    To summarise, many things are already known about HDTV:

    1. The EBU have recommended progressive formats for transmission, starting with 720p and moving towards 1080p as technology develops. This is a recommendation, not enforcable, and private broadcasters are entitled to do what they want.

    2. Sky, and most other European broadcasters, will be using MPEG4 compression. US broadcasters currently use MPEG2 but some will switch to MPEG4 before too long.

    3. HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will launch in the next 12 months. The data will probably be stored as 1080p on the disc and, depending on the individual player specifications, will probably output 720p, 1080i or 1080p user selectable via a HDCP equipped HMDI interface. There may be 1080i analogue outputs on some players but this looks unlikely at the moment.

    4. For any of the forthcoming HD services or formats it is best to assume a HDCP equipped display device will be required.

    5. The Sky boxes will support 720p and 1080i transmission making tt a broadcaster's choice. Which is better is a tricky argument. 720p is probably better for sports coverage but 1080i has a higher horizontal resolution and in theory can be inversed telecined to 1080p on film based material (much as the way DVD's are inverse telecined to give a 480p or 576p output). As in the USA, both will probably be supported by virtually all receivers and displays so most viewers will probably not know what they are watching except for maybe a short re-sync moment when channel hopping.

    6. In the USA at the moment both 1080i and 720p are used. ABC and Fox use 720p whilst virtually all other channels (free and pay) use 1080i

    7. It is safe to assume all European based channels and probably HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will be 50Hz based.

    8. The BBC will pick what the broadcast platform allows. Basically, as Sky will be the initial platform, they will have a choice between 720p or 1080i.

    9. Sound formats for Europe are not known on the broadcast side. MPEG 2-channel with an add on Dolby Digital 5.1 track are the most likely.

    10. HDCP is likely to be required for most pre-recorded and broadcast HDTV services. If you are remotely interested in HDTV do not purchase a display device without such a feature.
     

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