Help!! pixels ruining my life

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by simon garrett, Dec 17, 2002.

  1. simon garrett

    simon garrett
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I originally posted this on the TV section but it's been suggested this would be the right place.

    I have a Sony widescreen non-digital TV which is plugged into a sky box, VHS and DVD players. When a large area of one colour appears on the screen it has a tendency to come over all pixelly. It has been suggested to me there may be some kind of sub-menu thingy which I can access to relieve this. Anyone know how I do this? I would be most grateful.

    Simon Garrett
     
  2. bar

    bar
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    48
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +0
    When does the distortion occur, is it while watching video, analogue or digital?

    If it occurs during analogue or video then there is probably a solution to the problem.

    If it occurs while watching digital then from what i understand there is nothing you can do about it. it is just the nature of digital transmissions.

    I have noticed the problem while watching close ups with lots of detail and fast movement during football matches.
     
  3. simon garrett

    simon garrett
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Dear bar,

    I'm pretty sure it only occurs when watching sky digital transmissions - certainly I'm not aware of it at other times.

    Surely in this technologically advanced world the likes of sky would have ensured their equipment was likely to be compatible with the hardware most often used to access their services?

    ...wouldn't they?

    I'll try getting in touch with their customer services and see if they have an answer - in which case I'll post it here to let people know. Otherwise, any other suggestions still gratefully received.
     
  4. bar

    bar
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Messages:
    48
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +0
    Simon,

    I suffer the same problem but i have DTT rather than sky. Others are reporting similar problems on all digital platforms.

    Look at the thread titled "Freeview, poor quality on ITV1..." for more info.
     
  5. Azrikam

    Azrikam
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've been getting the same thing on Sky Digital. (especially with large areas of white) My signal strength is still high, but I've noticed a LOT more breakup in the recent months.
     
  6. bob1

    bob1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,458
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +131
    Its got nothing to do your equipment it is down to the bit rate for the channel your watching. Some channels will be better than others.The more channels they cram in the worse the piture and the sound will be this is now evident on digital radio as the band is getting fuller the sound is now worse than analoge.Terrestrial tv will get worse first because there is less band width.

    Sorry but it won't get better it can only get worse.
     
  7. Alsproject

    Alsproject
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2002
    Messages:
    169
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Ratings:
    +7
    I get that on both my TVs.

    Its due to the high compression that Sky uses when transmitting the broadcasts.

    Just think about it as a cost cutting exercise by Sky as it uses less bandwidth so they can transmit more channels.
     
  8. KANU25

    KANU25
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I've just upgraded from a 28" Sony Profile(about 20 years old) to a 44" RP - and I've noticed this problem on both my sky and Humax(less on humax).

    Its amazing with all this modern technolgy that we have to live with such problems!!

    I've been told that by buying a Panasonic sky digibox(which apparently has a faster processor) that the problem would be less evident.

    So what is the solution?? Will a smaller TV not sure such distortion?? I guess I might just have to try the panasonic sky box - I'll let you know my findings
     
  9. bob1

    bob1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,458
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +131
    get a lcd 2inch tv you'll never see it:D
     
  10. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,842
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +975

    Somebody must be looking down on me and smiling because I don't get the problems most people are reporting but then I do not have a fancy w/s TV or a model with digital picture enhancments just a plain old 50hz Sony RPTV.
    The differnce between the digibox and your Humax is probably down to the superior specification of the humax that has to survive in an open market where as the digibox is most definetly made to a budget.
    People have reported differences in picture standards across the digibox range but I would put money on the main culprit in picture problems as the conflict between digital sourced picture being displayed on TV's which also have digital picture processing.
    This only seems to be overcome when the TV is fed from a far superior digital source, namely DVD whose bitrates and mastering aset the standards for mpegII encoded material.

    Re the Panasonic, yes it has a fast processor although other manufacturers have caught up and that will allow fast display and scrolling of the menus. The main processor does not have an influence on the mpegII decoding and signal conversion of the satellite input and so will not influence the final picture output.
     
  11. jim.rae

    jim.rae
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I have both Sky Digital and Freeview driving a variety of TVs, mostly through SCART leads.

    I very rarely see pixel problems even though the largest TV is a 42" back projection job.

    You need to make sure that the basic brightness/contrast/colour settings are OK - certainly not the factory pre-sets - and any digital picture facilities are switched off.

    After that, it's down to reception quality from your dish or aerial.

    The weaker the signal, the more picture break up you'll get...

    As the hippie computer buffs used to say - "Garbage in - equals garbage out...."
     
  12. Kearney

    Kearney
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2002
    Messages:
    85
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    11
    Location:
    Wiltshire
    Ratings:
    +4
    Modern technology often brings newer problems with it! Some Sky digital channels are of appalling quality, but digital video requires huge amounts of bandwidth to look good like when watching a DVD you can view the variable bit rate that sometimes goes up to 10.0 MBPS.

    Digital video is harder to make look good than an analogue signal but you could only get 5 analogue channels, where as now you can get loads of Mostly Junk and adverts
     
  13. drew

    drew
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Messages:
    77
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    North Surrey
    Ratings:
    +0
    jim.rae
    you wrote:-

    .....................................................................................................
    After that, it's down to reception quality from your dish or aerial.

    The weaker the signal, the more picture break up you'll get...

    As the hippie computer buffs used to say - "Garbage in - equals garbage out...."
    .......................................................................................................

    I used to think that with digital via aerial you either received the signal and a picture or, if the signal wasn't strong enough you simply didn't get a picture. I'm sure I've read that somewhere on the Forum.

    Yet on some of my channels, eg Sky News, History, I'll receive the picture one day but next time it breaks up and goes to a red dot in the middle of the screen. So I guess that you're correct Jim.

    So I need a better aerial? I've wired CT100 from the loft straight into the back of the Pace DTR 735. Can't think what else to do. And, what's the bets the roof will start shedding tiles after they've been up there? :rolleyes:
     
  14. jim.rae

    jim.rae
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Like so many things in life, l the answer is yes and no!

    It's true that digital reception is like a cliff face - it's generally either on or not on, whereas analogue can give poor reception like ghosting and grainy pictures, but you can still see what's going on.

    If you are getting bad picture break up and the dreaded red dot - the DTT one, not the Sky interactive one - that means you are just at the edge of the cliff and your reception on some days is marginal.

    That could be for all sorts of reasons, but at the end of the day the signal at the end of the aerial wire is just not strong enough for everyday stable reception.

    If you don't want to take the aerial out of the loft to an outside position, a video amplifier might help - you can get them from Argos etc for not a huge investment.

    Or it could be worth temporarily putting your VCR in the circuit before the Digibox as it will mildly amplify the signal for its own use - just as an experiment.

    If that helps, then a proper video amplifier might help too.

    A bit of trial and error I'm afraid.

    You can check the signal level received by your box in the technical menu and make a comparison - keep us posted on progress...
     
  15. bob1

    bob1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,458
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +131
    Having a better reception wont get rid of the pixels (will get rid of digital break up)and i very much doubt that a better box will help because the bit rate is to low on some of the channels and only happens when they is a lot of information on the screen (flashing lights is a good )one people that have seen it know what i mean.Went in to currys the other week looking at plasmas oh dear connected to their own digi box i had a play and the piture was no better than a web broacast so its everywere.


    The future is bleek the future is digital
     
  16. Paul G

    Paul G
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Exactly what I've been thinking. Some people suggesting you need a better aerial to improve a poor quality low bit broadcast made me think I was going bonkers.
    As Starburst says there are no basic guidelines for digital broadcasting unlike analogue. Which means we just have to live with low bit - blocky digi pictures. 'Like it or lump it' as the old saying goes.
     
  17. jim.rae

    jim.rae
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I agree we seem to have a confusion here about what the word "pixel" means...

    I was trying to answer the question about the red dot and blocking which was asked, which on DTT, is quite simply due to poor quality reception for whatever reason.

    But other people are talking about a pixelisation effect - for example when pictures fade up and down or cameras move quickly which is due to lack of bandwidth on that particular transmission.

    And that's not to be confused over the different trouble people have with dead pixels - eg on a plasma screen.

    Life gets more complicated by the day.

    I still prefer watching digital pictures to analogue most days of the week and I have strong reception from both...
     
  18. drew

    drew
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Messages:
    77
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    North Surrey
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hi Jim Rae

    I'm going to check my signal strength again.

    Did it a few weeks ago and got "good" (green) bars on four UHF's and "variable" on the other two. The on screen meter is a horizontal bar that goes about half way across the scale, actual readings on "good" were about 2.8, though one was down at 2.2 The other two "variable" readings were at 1.9 and 2.6.

    So, although 2.6 is higher than 2.2 it got "variable". If quality isn't simply signal strength then what is quality? BTW, I've got a Pace DTR735 receiver.

    I'm on the Crystal Palace transmitter and have been told by Pace that I receive UHF frequencies 25, 22, 32, 28, 34, 29. He gave them to me in that order, - don't know if that's relevant. I suppose the channels that are giving me problems will be clustered on a particular frequency?

    I'm using an exterior roof aerial, on a chimney pole. I cut the old coax as soon as it came into the loft and replaced with CT100 (sat grade coax). The join is proper F plugs, and the other end goes straight into the back of the Pace, so no wall plates or other potential interference in the way. For a week or so the picture was fantastic, but now it's grainy.

    Particular problem last few days has been wobble/pulse on any horizontal lines in the picture. A slatted blind in the shot with the camera panning in or out would be a nightmare, but it happens on anything light coloured that forms a horizontal line in the picture.

    Any suggestions or even chat would be appreciated.
     
  19. bugman

    bugman
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Messages:
    42
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    South Staffs
    Ratings:
    +3
    sky digital picture quality used to be fairly acceptable in the early days but has gone down the pan of late,i recently sent an email to them regarding the [email protected] quality.below is a transcript of their reply.

    while we try to provide the best quality viewing experience we can,a balance has to be struck between the cost to the consumer and the amount of bandwidth allocated to channels.The cost involved in broadcasting a channel is determined by the bandwidth we require from the satelite operators.From a financial standpoint we have to set the picture quality at a level which is acceptable to the majority of our customers while still being affordable at the current level of subscription.we have only begun generating positive free cash flow this year,some 4 years after launching the digital platform.Paying for higher quality pictures(more bandwidth) would have to be funded from somewhere.We also have to take into account the ever increasing number of channels keen to join the platform.
    end...

    like everything else these days,things will only get better if you tell them your not happy,time and time again,so give them your feedback answers on their own website

    bugman
     
  20. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,842
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +975


    Do you believe the picture quality has dropped across the whole range of channels carried on the SKY D platform and if so was your email sent just to SKY or each of the channel broadcasters in turn?

    Quite a reply if it came from SKY, makes a change from the usual form type response.
     
  21. bob1

    bob1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,458
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +131
    Hi Drew

    Why did you cut your old coax it would have been better to replace the lot ,did you spend a lot or was this cheap stuff i was going to replace mine but couldn't find anything better than the stuff i was using its about 15 years old and still going strong.Is the problem your having just on digital? if its analouge it could be co channel interference when air pressure rises the range of uhf singles is longer and you could be receiving other stations on the same channel.Signals will go up and down all the time they will not be constant unless you are very local to the transmitter it could have been a good day when you changed things and now have gone back to an average signal
     
  22. bugman

    bugman
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2002
    Messages:
    42
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    8
    Location:
    South Staffs
    Ratings:
    +3
    yes i do believe sky,s broadcast quality has gone down the pan
    and if youre viewing sky on a large screen tv (100hz) your problems are worse,the e-mail i sent was via the feedback section on their own website.It confirms that the more channels join sky,s platform,the worse it will be,it also confirms that they are content with broacasting poor quality pictures and still taking your money-with a rise in price also this month

    bugman
     
  23. Starburst

    Starburst
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    17,842
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Ilkeston
    Ratings:
    +975
    That's what puzzled me:)
    A SKY employee answered your email but neglected to mention or was unaware that SKY doesn't set the bitrates for the vast majority of channels that are on the SKY D platfrom.
    You wouldn't get very far complaining to SKY about the bitrates used by the BBC for example or the many other channels within SKY's subscription packages that buy/rent transponder capacity directly from SES or Eutelsat.

    Additional channels will not make a blind bit of difference to any other channel as there is spare capacity on the satellites but if a broadcaster chooses to add a channel without aquiring more capacity then yes that will mean a drop in the average bitrate across their channels, it will not effect anybody elses though.


    All this is scepticism/doubt is due to my inabilty to see the problems many people report(I believe they are reporting what they see). There are indeed some channels that transmit at very low birates (motors tv) but if asked I couldn't say there had been a noticable drop in SKY1 quality (Fading gets a blocky as it ever did on The Simpsons 4 years ago)and Shrek on premiere w/s was a beautiful picture but as a premium channel that obviously is in different catagory to the mainstream channels.

    I suppose I should be happy and not question the matter:)
     
  24. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    7,545
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Near London.
    Ratings:
    +208
    I'm certain that it's not just about it being a premium channel. I've been watching the pool fairly religiously (which we won!! :D ) and it's been regularly and often breaking up into large blocks of colour, losing sound or just freezing in points. This is on Sky Sports 2 and gets very annoying when a crucial shot's being played and it all stops working properly for those few seconds.
     
  25. bob1

    bob1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,458
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +131
    elivjhon2 the problem you have is digital breakup this is due to a poor signal your dish might need repositioning. Try checking your signal strength somewhere in the setup menu on your box this should tell you if you have a good signal or not.
     
  26. bob1

    bob1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,458
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +131
    Did digital start off bad and get better with advance in technology or has just been the same all the time they seem to be pushing the technology to the limits and we suffer a poor service
     
  27. eviljohn2

    eviljohn2
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Messages:
    7,545
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Near London.
    Ratings:
    +208
    bob1, having checked the strength this morning, both relevant bars are consistently in the top quarter of the range. Surely that's a pretty good signal when I here people talking about there's only filling up half?

    Or do different channels arrive from different satellites and hence different directions? That seems pretty unlikely to me but I'm certainly not too knowledgable when it comes to these things!
     
  28. drew

    drew
    Standard Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2002
    Messages:
    77
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    6
    Location:
    North Surrey
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hello bob1

    I've been away a couple of days, and looking in today there appears to be two separate conversations going on in this thread. The other one seems to be a lot more useful so I'll close my problem down by biting the bullet and accepting that I'll have to go and spend some more money, - and uprate my aerial.

    I wanted to avoid having people clambering on the roof because past experience in a previous house indicates that this will lead over the following months to roof tiles answering the call of gravity :rolleyes: .

    BTW, re your question on the coax - I cut the old cable in the loft, just under the ridge, as near to the aerial as I could without having to go outside and up on the roof. The original coax was old and brittle but wasn't being used until I kicked NTL cable into touch and bought a Pace box. With that set up the picture was miles better than NTL but it has now drifted back to something like analogue standard. The new cable was Raydex CT100.

    I've noticed the picture is better early evening and gets worse later, on analogue and digital. Output from the video, playing original tapes, doesn't have the same picture problems and variabilty. So it isn't the telly. Must be the aerial then.

    Or.........:confused:
     
  29. bob1

    bob1
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2002
    Messages:
    4,458
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ratings:
    +131
    Hi eviljohn2 just checked mine both bar graphs past halfway picture quality one further on than the other cant say that i have ever had break try looking at the thread for "sky reception problem"i think they have the answer.
     
  30. Fernsehman

    Fernsehman
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Do you mean that you've joined CT100 to the existing TV aerial cable? Definitely not a good idea. You should have a single run of double-shielded cable with no joints. If you *have* to make joints, be sure that they are fully shielded by using "F" connectors into a "threaded barrel" to minimise the "discontinuity". Choose a suitable "group" aerial for the digital transmissions. These are often spread so far apart that you'll need a wide band aerial. Certainly don't rely upon your existing 10 year old bunch of sticks.

    Just to emphasise what Jim Rae said, pixellation can be caused by a TV set with, for example, 100Hz and "digital enhancement". Try turning off this feature as it's generally incompatible with Sky Digital. Read Jim's post carefully. He knows his stuff.

    Fman
     

Share This Page

Loading...
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice