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Help needed for Live Sky Football

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by sirees01, May 15, 2004.

  1. sirees01

    sirees01
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    I bought a new Pioneer 434 last thursday.
    Today is my first chance to see how it handles live football on Sky.

    It is awful :eek: jerkiness, very pixely picture nowhere near as good as other sky channels.

    Can anyone help me tweak the settings for sky footbal viewing.

    Bear in mind there is only 19hrs of viewing on this set at the moment, I gather I won't see the best of this set until at least 200hrs+

    Please help or it's going back.

    My current User settings are:

    Con 40
    Bri +7
    Colour -6
    Tint 0
    Sharp -1

    Pro adjust
    pure cinema off
    colour temp mid
    Mpeg NR low
    DNR Low
    CTI Off
    DRE Off
     
  2. Cag

    Cag
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    Have you turned the contrast to Low on your Sky box....may not make a difference but u should do it.
    I've got A Hotachi & must say footy is great.

    Alot of people go for the RGB2YUV convertor which is said to amke a difference to PQ

    Cheers
    Cag
     
  3. loonatic

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    Also try turning off both the MPEG NR and DNR settings as these can sometime case images to look more processed.

    Cheers, Lee
     
  4. sirees01

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    yes I have Sky contrast turned down to low.
    what is a RGB2YUV convertor ? how much do they cost & will it make that much of a difference.
    I have also tried turning off MpegNR & DNR but it is still not watchable.
    any sudden movements of the camera & the picture just goes all blurry & fuzzy (technical terms not used :oops:)
    any other 434 owners experienced this ?

    I also had lip sync problems on BBC1 last night, I have had Sky+ for 18 months & never had it before.
    Otherwise Movies/DVD's are fantastic, but if I can't watch football on it it's no good at all.
     
  5. kwijibo

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    this was covered in a previous thread a couple of weeks ago. Can't find it again though. Can someone find a link to it as I think it solved the problem. Maybe it should be sticky as this is a very popular plasma and is a very common problem
     
  6. sirees01

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    cheers kwijibo :smashin: if anyone can find that link it would be a great help.
     
  7. sirees01

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  8. sponshagga

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    i have found this with plasmas.I dont think they take to a large expanse of green very well when here is had pannnig. the Blockyness was driving me mad. In the end I found lcd more acceptable.
     
  9. symanski

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    Simon,
    which type of 434 do you have? MXE or HDE?

    All the best,

    Dr John Sim.
     
  10. sirees01

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    it is the PD 434 HDE
     
  11. symanski

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    I'm not sure what can be done to help with the HDE. Certainly with the MXE we can offer different route to get the picture to the screen. I've been expecting some feedback from a HDE user to see if using a component converter helps the picture quality.

    Live football is actually one of the most difficult types of image to encode. You've got a mostly similar colour picture, but with lots of texture. So Sky might be part of the problem. On your screen I'd try and turn all video processing option to off, not just low.

    All the best,

    John.
     
  12. sirees01

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    tried swithching all the DP off & it is still poor & unwatchable.
     
  13. sticker

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    Simon,
    I find football is generally poor on mine, but I found the biggest improvement was with a dedicated mains filtering extension. I also found that football on Sky Sports 1/2/3 was better than BBC etc. I'v eput it down to the poor Sky bandwidth as I've watched sport DVD's and they don't exhibit the same problems.

    Regards
    John
     
  14. Graham Sims

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    I have the same problem.
    The problems are to do with the interlaced picture from sky I think, as I recorded some football onto a dvdr, played it back through dvd player using progressive scan and the problems vanish, turned off progressive scan on dvd player and problems reappear.

    Sticker are you playing your dvd with progressive scan?

    Anyone tried this?

    Cheers,

    Graham
     
  15. symanski

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    I think what that's showing is the difference between various different processing solutions for plasma screen. You could probably get similar if you used an external processor. However, as I stated grass is difficult for MPEG (the encoding scheme) to encode.

    All the best,

    John.
     
  16. sirees01

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    someone please tell me if this will get better after the so called 200+ hrs mark :lease:
    no-one seems to be able to offer any positive advice.
     
  17. macdaddy

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    I Can't see what the 200 hour running in period will do to make the PQ any worse than it will/will not be after the 200 hours is up. Surely the decoding will be exactly the same after 200 hours?

    As an afterthought my Panny PW6 is more than fine watching footy on Sky sports especially using the JS RGb-VGA converter. It may be worth a try.
     
  18. sirees01

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    Maybe Symanski from JS technology will let me be a guinea pig for him to try the product mentioned in the first page. If it works i'll keep it, if not I send it back ???
    What do you say John ?

    http://www.js-technology.com/rgb-vga/index.htm
     
  19. PC Nut

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  20. Graham Sims

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    unless the rgb>yuv outputs progressive scan, I don't think it will make a lot of difference, well not on the problems i'm seeing.

    Cheers,

    Graham
     
  21. Omar

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    Well I am using the VGA to YUV converter on my Panny 6 and am having the same issue regarding Sky footy. I am no expert but I dont think the JS box converts interlaced to progressive - I believe that is done in the screen itself !?!?

    I have read quite a few threads regarding Sky Footy and it seems there is no solution to the problem - Or is there ???
     
  22. Omar

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    I thought that the RGB to VGA is the best way to connect Sky direct to the screen, while the RGB to YUV offers the flexibility to connect via the AV receiver.

    Or am I wrong ?!?!?
     
  23. Joe Fernand

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    sirees

    Using an RGB2YUV converter with a PDP-434HDE is not going to help - no matter what quality of RGB converter you employ.

    The football on SKY is very compressed and from talking to various video processing manufacturers and distributors it looks like the Broadcasters actually 'drop' frames when running Sports coverage; which wont help as far as jerky motion goes.

    You also have to understand the Pioneer PlasmaTV has its own video processing and is converting the incoming signal to its own 'native' or favoured refresh rate - again this tends to highlight any jerky motion.

    There is no magic cure for the poor quality of the broadcast signal but you can resolve some of the issues you have using an external Video Processor - though its going to cost near £1K to improve things.

    You may want to try setting the Digibox to output Composite rather than RGB for the football - it'll look softer but possibly less processed.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  24. suzywong

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    One thing I've done is to get a "better" mains cable and a Thor Scart cable. It made a small difference, in that I've now got some texture in the grass, but white lines are still the biggest problem, all jagged during panning.
    And which processor did you have in mind, Joe?
     
  25. symanski

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    Personally, I prefer motorsport to football...

    However, I did talk with one of the people who did the encoding at NDS. Simply put, NDS are the technical company providing Sky's technical services. He told me that encoding football is the most difficult thing to do.

    In the past, we've found that going in via different inputs can sometimes help. Joe, I'm not sure about composite as I tend to avoid this as if it's contaminated with the plague, but I know what you're thinking. It might be worth a try using component instead of RGB SCART to see if it does make a difference. Certainly with other screens avoiding the SCART board has helped.

    As for going from interlaced to progressive, it's important to note that plasma screens already have this built in. My products are intended to get the best picture to the screen, or external processor, so that they can then do their best. Good quality external processors are quite a bit more than the converters I do, and may not give as sharp a picture....

    Simon,
    PM me and we'll see what we can do wrt using you as a guinea pig.

    All the best,

    John.
     
  26. dealmaker

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    Issue sounds to be more related to SKY rather than Plasma's.

    Football when viewed on my Pioneer via Sony FREEVIEW box (Scart RGB) looks very nice indeed!...on a friends similar set-up via SKY looked terrible :confused:
     
  27. Joe Fernand

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    Omar

    Using a JS Technology RGB2VGA converter is an excellent way to get RGB Video into a Plasma Display that only accepts RGB with separate Horizontal and Vertical sync signals (RGBHV) at Video levels.

    Using the same converter with a PlasmaTV (which already has SCART RGB sockets on the rear of the R04 Media Box) is a waste of time - plus the HD15 Input on the Pioneer Media Box only works with RGBHV signals at PC refresh rates.

    You have to choose any converters or processors carefully to match each system - you cant assume a solution that works with one screen will work with another.

    As before its not about having a problem getting an RGB Video signal into the R04 Media Box its about how the Media Box processes what is a relatively poor signal being broadcast by SKY Sports.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  28. symanski

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    Joe,
    Totally agree that you've got to carefully select the right way to connect to your screen. While for some screens, a converter will not be suitable there are screen where a converter will make a big difference. Even if it's already got SCARTs. Not all screens are created equal! Hence, I say I'm not sure about what can be done for the Pioneers with media box, but also suggest there's other screens where we can help.

    Just for clarity, the MXE screen will work with the RGB to Plasma VGA unit, but the HDE screens will display "out of sync" across the picture.

    All the best,

    John.
     
  29. sirees01

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    if we have now established that the blame lies with Sky, which video processor will enhance the pictures on the 434HDE the best ?
    I have to get this sorted before Euro 2004
     
  30. symanski

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    If the blame lies with Sky, there may be nothing that you can do to improve the picture - the information isn't there for an external processor.

    However, there's another section to the group all about scalars and processors. I'm not going to claim to be an expert on such scalars, I've had a look at a couple and have seen some good demonstations. Motion was generally improved, but at the cost of picture detail.

    All the best,

    John.
     

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