Help need for upgrading home theater receiver

[EastBayBob]

I already posted this in the Denon 3313 thread but then I realized would be better here.
Hi,
I am planning to buy a 2019 Sony TV. What would be a good upgrade from my Denon 3313ci. I have 5.1 system set up as my main and also have tv and two speakers in bedroom. I probably will add speakers to my main room for Atmos. I can spend up to $2000 but $1500-$1600 would be better. I would be watching Direct TV, and I have an Apple TV for Netflix, Amazon, iTunes. I listen to music via Apple Music and sometimes Cd's.
The local expensive store recommends Anthem 720 which is more than I want to spend but I could if it is really worth the extra money.
One local home theater installer recommends Yamaha.
Another says Marantz
I have read that the Denon 4500's are great
Would I need to spend the money on a 9.1 receiver if I am planning on adding two speakers for Atmos along with the two I use in the bedroom.
Would Atmos work with the 5.1 system I have
Thanks,
Bob

 

[dante01]

Atmos will not work via a 5.1 setup. The minimum requirements for Atmos would be a 5.1.2 speaker configuration. This would however still leave 2 channels with which to power your second zone speakers with if you've a 9 channel receiver. The 2 channels used for the second zone would however probably be better utilised powering another pair of Atmos speakers or back surrounds in the main zone if you've the space to accomdate them?

 

[EastBayBob]

sorry this is new to me. What is 5.1.2 configuration? I have 3 front ceiling speakers, 2 rear ceiling and sub. I would be buying new receiver. Would I need more speakers for Atmos?

 

[dante01]

sorry this is new to me. What is 5.1.2 configuration? I have 3 front ceiling speakers, 2 rear ceiling and sub. I would be buying new receiver. Would I need more speakers for Atmos?

A conventional 5.1 floor layout plus 2 Atmos speakers:

You may find this guide of interest:
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technol...tmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf

 

[Deleted member 24354]

Yes you would either need 2 (or more) overhead speakers or you would require upward firing Atmos speakers that would reflect sound off the ceiling

 

[EastBayBob]

Thanks, that's what I thought. It's going to be expensive to switch to 4K tv. I will have to upgrade everything

 

[Deleted member 39241]

Thanks, that's what I thought. It's going to be expensive to switch to 4K tv. I will have to upgrade everything

You could connect your 4k video sources directly to the TV for video, then run another cable to the amp for audio, or pass the audio through the TV.

 

[gibbsy]

sorry this is new to me. What is 5.1.2 configuration? I have 3 front ceiling speakers, 2 rear ceiling and sub. I would be buying new receiver. Would I need more speakers for Atmos?

If you have all your 5.1 speakers, apart from the sub, in the ceiling then, unless you are prepared to move them all to the conventional positions in a floor layout, then Atmos would be an impossibility for you.

 

[EastBayBob]

Is this right, I can't have Atmos with 7 ceiling speakers? It won't work for me to change my system to floor standing speakers. If that's the case then there is no need to upgrade to a 9.1 receiver. I might as well buy an Anthem 520 for a 5.1 system that is in place and use an amp to run zone 2 ceiling speakers in the bedroom for that tv. Does this make sense

 

[dante01]

Is this right, I can't have Atmos with 7 ceiling speakers? It won't work for me to change my system to floor standing speakers. If that's the case then there is no need to upgrade to a 9.1 receiver. I might as well buy an Anthem 520 for a 5.1 system that is in place and use an amp to run zone 2 ceiling speakers in the bedroom for that tv. Does this make sense

You'd ideally what the 5 conventional speakers at your seated head height with only the 2 Atmos speaker on the ceiling. You'd most definitely want the Atmos speakers and associated audio to be eminating from above the other channels of audio and not from the same plain.

I'd suggest not having your 5 speakers on the ceiling even if not intending to add another 2 to facilitate an Atmos setup. You're not hearing the audio as it was intended to be portrayed. Ceiling speakers are okay in lifts or public spaces, but not very effective at portraying stereo or surround sound at home. You tend to diminish the ability to localise audio if eminating from a source higher than 30° above the horizontal. This makes it very dificult to depict stereo imagery and or surround effects via speakers mounted on a ceiling.

 

[gibbsy]

Is this right, I can't have Atmos with 7 ceiling speakers? It won't work for me to change my system to floor standing speakers. If that's the case then there is no need to upgrade to a 9.1 receiver. I might as well buy an Anthem 520 for a 5.1 system that is in place and use an amp to run zone 2 ceiling speakers in the bedroom for that tv. Does this make sense

Atmos creates a bubble of sound but there must be a good separation of the layers of sound. The sounds that you are portraying from your current set up all comes from above, adding another two into the ceiling and feeding it with Atmos just portrays that sound on the same dimension. There will be no separation, no bubble of sound.

Even just bringing your set up into a standard floor arrangement will have a big impact on the quality of the sound. Sound will be reaching your ears from a horizontal perspective which is how the human brain is designed to detect sound. In nature there are very little sounds reaching you from above, a walk in the forest will probably be the best place to go to be surrounded by ambient effects as well as thunderstorms. Most sound we here above are now man made.

Bring your speakers down to ear level, I'm pretty sure you'll be delighted.

 

[EastBayBob]

Years ago we had our house renovated and had home theater installed with the 11 ceiling speakers installed in our house. That's the way it is, too late to go back to floor speakers. So would it not work at all or just not be optimal to have 7 ceiling speakers for Atmos

 

[EastBayBob]

Looks like it does not make any sense to have Atmos system given the realities of my setup. There is no way I would be able to have 5 floor speakers. I guess the best I can do is make it the best 5.1 system I can given the limitations of my room

 

[Dean]

It would take some work and money to get conventional speakers at listener level space permitting, but as others have said, it definitely would be worth it if you're building a serious home cinema.

 

[Deleted member 39241]

There are in-wall on on-wall speakers that you could have at base layer, and use your existing ceiling speakers for the atmos / height layer.

Something like this:

 

[gibbsy]

I bet that layout has been done by some home designer with little or no thought to how it's going to sound. Great big granite slab and marble floor. Take more than Dirac to sort that lot out.

Red cushions! Who uses red cushions?

 

[Deleted member 39241]

I bet that layout has been done by some home designer with little or no thought to how it's going to sound. Great big granite slab and marble floor. Take more than Dirac to sort that lot out.

Red cushions! Who uses red cushions?

You don't like my new home cinema then?

 

[dante01]

I like the cushions

 

[THX1138UK]

Th

sorry this is new to me. What is 5.1.2 configuration? I have 3 front ceiling speakers, 2 rear ceiling and sub. I would be buying new receiver. Would I need more speakers for Atmos?

The issue you face is that you have a very unconventional speaker layout.

Dolby surround (5.1) was never intended to use ceiling speakers. It was always designed for speakers at ear height (with elevated surrounds) facing towards the listening position.

Dolby Atmos keeps this conventional layout, but augments this with two or more downward-firing ceiling speakers designed specifically for height effects.

I really don’t think you will gain any improvement by trying to implement Dolby Atmos into your existing layout - actually I think you’ll make it sound worse, as the real Atmos speakers will compete with your other speakers and I suspect it will sound muddy.

You could use four of your existing ceiling speakers as Atmos speakers, and then supplement these with new ear height speakers, but it’s sounds like this is a path you’d rather not travel.

5.1.2 means 5.1 with 2 *additional* dedicated Atmos speakers.

5.1.4 means 5.1 with 4 *additional* dedicated Atmos speakers.

7.1.2 and 7.1.4 are also options depending on the AVR.


Regards,
Janes.

 

[Zigourney]

I like the cushions

me too

 

[EastBayBob]

I think I will have to stay with what I have. I just can’t buy new speakers and my wife would never agree to 5 speakers set up on the floor.
I’m planning to buy a 65” 2019 Sony so I want to keep the speaker layout I have and buy a new receiver. In addition to the 5 speakers I use two more in the bedroom for zone 2.
Since I’m not adding speakers would it make sense to buy Anthem 520 as the local AV store recommended? I have a Parasound Zamp/zone amp that I can use for zone 2 if it has enough power.
For a little more money I could buy a Denon 4500, would that be better for the set up I have.
Thanks

 

[wozrokka666]

I want red cushions! No, I really do!