Help me find my hifis weakest link

upperlacon

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I am looking for some advice on upgrading my system and would like some opinions on which part seems to be my weakest link. Although I am happy with my current system (especially for the amount I've paid assembling it off ebay), I can help but feel that I want more definition in the mids, as at the moment I find them quite messy. Because I listen to such a wide variety of music, I'd like some pretty versatile.

The budget I had in mind to spend was around £300 in total, but I'd be willing to spend a bit more if the component offered a much better sound upgrade.

A couple of ideas so far are: upgrade the amp to a Marantz 6004 or/and buy a DAC such as the Arcam rPAC.

Any ideas / suggestions would be very welcome.

My current system:
Cambridge Audio A1 mk3 SE
Gale Model 2 Speakers
Cambridge Audio Azur 540 CD Player
Project Debut mk3 turntable + Project Phono Box mk2
iMac connected through 3.5mm to phono cable
 
A DAC would be a significant upgrade over using the headphone out on your MAC
 
I'd replace the speakers - What I think you have are pretty basic although I can't find the exact model you quote. I've seen several Richer sounds Gale speakers that have failed and thought they were not too good although not expensive.
 
I think your input devices are fine at this level, I don't think upgrading them would show that much of an improvement.
I can't find much on the "Gale Model 2" speakers, could you find a web link for them by any chance?

The CA A1 mk3 SE (rolls off the tongue!) is not a bad amp by any stretch of the imagination, and it seems to be regarded as "warm".

A few questions for you, on top of the speakers that I can't find much about: how loudly do you listen to music? Do you find anything else lacking other than the mids? ie: punch, bass depth / control, treble, etc. Do any of the lacks show up more on some sources compared to others? I'm asking the last question because the iMac input via headphone-out won't really be that great.

I'm tempted to say that the speakers are probably the weakest link followed by the amp, but we'd need a little more info. Thanks!
 
So I've been searching and I can't find much information on them either. I think they're pretty old, and they were acquired on ebay a while back so I dont know much about their history.

In answer to your questions; I dont listen to music obscenely loudly (I live in a flat which inhibits that), so more raw power is not what i need from the amp at the moment. I notice the highs are much worse from the iMac than the other sources too. I do have lower expectations from this as its mainly used for convenience - but if a £100-200 DAC would make a massive difference I think I will definitely invest. A quick search has me looking at the CA DAC Magic or the Project USB Box. Any thoughts on those, or is there something else i should consider?

So it sounds like the speakers are to be upgraded. The three options that stand out from my research are: Monitor Audio BX2, Dali Zensor 1, or the cheaper Mission MX1.

Then my amp would become my weakest link I guess... Just how much of a gulf in class do you think there is between the CA A1 and something like the Marantz 6004?
 
I'd trawl the classifieds on here/ebay etc and try and maximise your budget. Looking at your system I'd try and get some better speakers for maybe £200 and if possible try and get a DAC for around the £100 mark.

I think Cambrudge Audio's DAC is around that price now or a Musical fidelity one should fit the bill. It'll give you a nice lift in sound over the headphone jack!

Also the last and cheapest option....what file format is your music stored on your Mac?
 
I notice the highs are much worse from the iMac than the other sources too. I do have lower expectations from this as its mainly used for convenience - but if a £100-200 DAC would make a massive difference I think I will definitely invest. A quick search has me looking at the CA DAC Magic or the Project USB Box. Any thoughts on those, or is there something else i should consider?

Any upgrade elsewhere to improve the sound will only show up the mac soundcard output even more so a DAC is worthwhile. You could also look a the MF V-DAC II. Worth keeping an eye out on the bay for s/hand DACs as they are not the sort of item that wears out as long as they are not physically abused. There is unlikely to be a significant difference between any of the DACs you mention or the MF so it is really down to availability and price.

If cost is an issue there is also the budget end
Behringer UCA202
FiiO D3
Cyp AU D3 (also Lindy version - same kit)

These retail for between £25 - £45 and offer very good value for the price. As soon as you go over £250 the laws of diminsihing gains start to apply.
 
OK, that helps a lot.

I think a DAC would be a worthwhile investment, as long as you were to get something with both a USB input and coax/optical. The CA DAC Magic 100 is a great fit from this point of view, since it would take over from the computer sound card and it may be better than the CD player's internal DAC too (you could quite easily try and see - sorry, hear!). There was the TEAC UDH01 too going for cheap, but it's pretty much out of stock everywhere now.. A dedicated DAC may even mean that you use your iMac more, and more so with lossless tracks - unless you're already doing that.

On the other hand, speakers will most likely make a big difference too; the BX2s are well regarded, same for the Zensor 1's. They may well make the biggest difference for your CD and vinyl. I take it you have a budget to stick to for all these?

The amp will become the weakest link if you get a DAC and better speakers, but I reckon it won't be such a huge difference. The Marantz 6004 or the Yamaha A-S500 (there's a even couple of A-S700s for cheap out there too) are all very decent amps and will be better than the CA A1 in terms of dynamics/clarity/etc at least even at "average" volumes, but I don't think that's the biggest hold-back in your current system.

As the others have said, second hand would maximise your budget. Second hand DACs don't really wear out so would be fine, second hand speakers can be just as good as new provided they weren't abused.
 
I think the speakers are the main culprit and first in line to change, A dac will bring some improvement but whether the amp is able to help supply that improvement to the speakers i don't know. So I'm in 2 in minds whether it should be the a dac or amp next after the speakers. Or you could look at stereo amp with digital inputs. Kill 2 birds with one stone

My suggestion to add to the speaker list are these

Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 Standmount Speakers £175

or open boxed for even less

Wharfedale Diamond 10.2 Standmount Speakers £150

In the same league and class as the MA BX2 and rest mentioned and are going for bargain prices
I have a pair used with a Marantz PM7001KI stereo amplifier and can vouch for their warmth and solid performance.
 
Agree with most of the previous comments and suggestions. Speakers and the 3.5mm feed from your iMac are likely to be the weak points. Where you go from here though depends on possible future upgrade plans. Are you just considering this one upgrade or is it merely the start of a longer term, more extensive upgrade process? Thinking about your longer term aim will determine exactly how you go about it, starting now.

If this upgrade is the only one envisaged, then I'd get better speakers and a cheap but good USB DAC.

From limited experience, I'd say there's little to choose sonically between well designed DAC's. The FiiO D3 (around £25) is a cracker (I use one) but it doesn't accept USB input so consider only if your iMac has optical or coaxial outputs. The Behringer UCA202 (accepts USB) is often recommended on this forum and I've only seen good things said about it. Another option is the Epiphany Acoustics EDAC (accepts USB), recently reduced in price to £89 and with improved output connections (I also use one and can vouch for its quality though I can't say it's sonically any better than the FiiO D3). The Epiphany EDAC got a great review on this very site by an in-house AVforums reviewer.

I've no recent experience of passive budget bookshelf speakers but those previously mentioned often crop up as recommendations. Speakers usually make the most difference to the final sound so it would be best to audition them prior to purchase if you can.

If this is just the beginning of a longer term, more extensive upgrade, I'd go with Don Dadda's suggestion of an intergrated amp with enough digital inputs for your sources - just ensure the digital inputs are of the type you need. I'd expect to see more amps with digital inputs entering the market this year. Alternatively, get a multi-input DAC that accepts both analogue and digital inputs (ideally with volume control but these are uncommon) and a separate power amp.

Better speakers will be required but match them to your current (or future?) room size; big speakers in small rooms overwhelm and small speakers in big rooms sound lost.
 
I'd suggest speakers would give you biggest improvement.

Then source; if you use the iMac a lot as a source then a DAC would be a good step.
 
I would say the two weakest links are the Amp and the Speakers. The amp is low power and low cost. For the money, probably fine, but nothing to write home about.

I would guess the closest current equivalent would be the Cambridge TOPAZ AM1 (£80) which only has 20w/ch. That's Ok, but again, nothing special.

The Gale are OK for the money, the problem is, it's not much money.

A DAC could be an improvement, but I don't think it is the priority right now. Amps and Speaker improvement, then when the time is right, consider a DAC.

£300 is a bit lean, but I would look at the Yamaha AS300 (£170, 60w/ch) or the Yamaha AS500 (£230, 85w/ch). For speakers, if you can still find them, you should be able to get a bargain on Diamond 10.2 (6.5", 40hz); priced between £150 and £175/pair. Worst case that would cost (£230+£175) = £405. Best case, (£170 + £150) = £320.

Pushing your budget, but both very good systems that should last for decades.

Alternative speakers would be the Tannoy Mercury V1 (£95/pr), Wharfedale Diamond 10.1 (£130/pr), Diamond 9.1 (£99/pr) (Superfi only), Monitor Audio BX1 (£179), and perhaps a few more.

If you can push your budget up higher, then consider -

SuperFi - Tannoy Mercury V4 (Pair)

Superfi - WHARFEDALE DIAMOND 10.4 SPEAKERS (PAIR)

Few to no Floorstanding speakers can touch these for the price.

In amps, you simply will not get more quality or more quantity for your money than Yamaha. Others to consider are the Onkyo TX-8255, Denon PMA-520, Marantz PM5004, Marantz PM6004, Denon PMA-720; all good, all UNDER £250. The best value though is the Yamaha AS500, highly rated, 85w/ch, very low price.

If you can swing the Yamaha AS500 + Wharfedale Diamond 10.2, you will have a very fantastic system, but you will be about £100 over budget. The Yamaha AS300, which is still a pretty good amp, would bring you in very close to your budget. The Diamond 10.1 will bring you down closer to your budget, but still a bit over. (AS300 + Diamond 10.1 = £170 + £130 = £300)

If you can push up to £200 over budget, the Yamaha AS500 plus either the Tannoy Mercury V4 or the Diamond 10.4 Floorstanding would be an absolutely KILLER system.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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The FiiO D3 (around £25) is a cracker (I use one) but it doesn't accept USB input so consider only if your iMac has optical or coaxial outputs.

The iMac headphone out is also an optical audio digital out port.
 

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