Help Me Decide!!

[NPM108]

Guys am lost here, wanting to replace my Yam 630RDS with either one of the following as they are all in a similar price bracket (at least based on the prices I have):

Yam 2500
Denon 2805
Pioneer 2014
Marantz SR7500

My main priority is Home Cinema Multi-channel, I don't really bother with CD playback.

Room is fairly large, 46m2 and speakers are KEF AV Package, Q7, Q9c, Q2ds

I find the Yam very soft and awfull at low volumes with my current setup, especially from the centre speaker!

 

[Kazman]

To be honest, any of those would suit your requirements. They all will have a different 'house' sound though, so it depends on which 'sound' you prefer. There is very little in it. The Marantz probably has the most refined sound, and the Pioneer the most in your face sound, with both the Yamaha and Denon taking the middle ground.

Amplification is also important, and in my opinion, the Marantz and the Pioneer have the more stable amps, these will be important considering the speakers you are going to be running with them.

 

[Jackam]

the Marantz and the Pioneer have the more stable amps,

...just wondering what you mean by 'stable'?

 

[Kazman]

Able to deliver a higher power for a longer period, important when you need to run difficult to drive or high end speakers.

The Yamaha and denon amps are good, don't get me wrong, but the Marantz and Pioneer are better at this.

 

[Kazman]

Should also add that the Pioneer and Marantz have better power handling with all channels driven, something many AV amps find difficult to do.

 

[Jackam]

Able to deliver a higher power for a longer period

The Marantz and Pioneer specs dont look to be class leading when driving an 8 ohm load (the Pioneer looks positively weedy, quoting only DIN figures on their web site). Just wondered what you base your comments on? The Yamaha (on paper) is by far the most powerful (ignoring DIN / high THD figures).

 

[Diamond]

Pioneer 1014 can match with Denon 3805 so there are different classes mixed.. I'd take Pioneer 1014/2014 for AV, for the good reputation spread here and other forums. It also looks very nice. Marantz would be for music instead..

 

[Kazman]

The Marantz and Pioneer specs dont look to be class leading when driving an 8 ohm load (the Pioneer looks positively weedy, quoting only DIN figures on their web site). Just wondered what you base your comments on? The Yamaha (on paper) is by far the most powerful (ignoring DIN / high THD figures).

This link might prove to be a bit of an eye opener: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Hollow/3401/ratevsac.htm

I saw a test on a german site which gave the readings of the efficiency of the internal amps, the SR7400 (upon which the SR7500 and SR8500 are based) and the Pioneer 1014 (upon which the 2014 is based) outperformed the Yamahas and Denons in the same class. Manufacturers own figures should always be taken with a pinch of salt I can't remember the link of the german site, but there have been references on this very forum, if you do a search you should find it.

The most shocking thing in the link above is the Sony stance

 

[Diamond]

The most shocking thing in the link above is the Sony stance

Or that Marantz... Shame there is no current models!

 

[Kazman]

Or that Marantz... Shame there is no current models!

Indeed, but thankfully the Marantz models from the x300 series upwards have been superb. I find it unbelievable that none of the Sonys would register a result with all channels driven

In real world terms though, all of the amps mentioned so far are more or less equal, it all depends on the sound one prefers.

 

[tpc3416]

I've owned all but the Marantz. The Pioneers are bright but powerful, the Yamaha's sound like the loudness is automatically on but are known for excellent sound, and the Denon's are pure - they seem to play the music like it was recorded. A friend of mine swears by Marantz. They are like the Denon's, but more attractive and built like a tank. So straight out of the box, if you like a little more highs and added bass, go with the Pioneer or Yammie. If you like pure music, the Denon or Marantz is a better choice. I'd take the Marantz 8500 if money were no object, but I'm hearing great things from the new Denon 4806. Everyone has a preference in sound. Home cinema is very dynamic, so any of the amps you listed will work just fine. The difference is musical taste.

 

[NPM108]

To be honest, any of those would suit your requirements. They all will have a different 'house' sound though, so it depends on which 'sound' you prefer. There is very little in it. The Marantz probably has the most refined sound, and the Pioneer the most in your face sound, with both the Yamaha and Denon taking the middle ground.

Amplification is also important, and in my opinion, the Marantz and the Pioneer have the more stable amps, these will be important considering the speakers you are going to be running with them.

Hi Kazman, Thanks for the info. I read through your posting on the Marantz amps and am pretty interested in the SR7500 but its available locally in Malta. I've never owned one before and my only hesitation is that they occasionally don't fair so well in reviews. I know magazine reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt but I tend to trust Home Cinema Choice as a good reference source. So far I don't believe the 7500 has been reviewed yet but the comments I read on this site are certainly promising.

The Pioneer 2014 I would source from Germany as the local Pioneer agent is charging crazy prices.....

I just want to make sure I get it right. The 630 I have at the moment always gave me the impression of being soft and I find dialogue from the centre speaker to be bad, just not clear and crisp. First I had a Paradigm CC-350 centre which I always liked but when I got the Yam it seemed to drop out. I then went through changing to the KEFs but kept the Paradigm centre...eventually reaching the conclusion that the tonality of the system wasn't matched so I got the KEF Q9c, which if anything didn't sound as good??!

I've invested in decent speaker cable, there's some Monster stuff and some THX approved cable as well in my system and just spent a fortune on interconnects as well, QED P75, QED QNect for Optical etc.

My current player of choice is the HD935 from Samsung, but I don't think thats the sound culprit though perhaps slightly??? Was running a Tosh SD220E before and it seemed to sound better.


You mention the Pioneer has having the most in your face sound..... does it still have good steering and is it still clear or would it be similar to comparing a sub running in Slam or Depth mode (in the case of my REL!) to understand this better?

One last question as both of these amps have auto setup function..... my seating position is around 6m away from the screen/receiver. Do I need to put the mic in the seating position area and if so is the cable long enough.

Thanks everyone for helping with this.....

 

[Kazman]

Hi Kazman, Thanks for the info. I read through your posting on the Marantz amps and am pretty interested in the SR7500 but its available locally in Malta. I've never owned one before and my only hesitation is that they occasionally don't fair so well in reviews. I know magazine reviews should be taken with a pinch of salt but I tend to trust Home Cinema Choice as a good reference source. So far I don't believe the 7500 has been reviewed yet but the comments I read on this site are certainly promising.

Home cinema choice have reviewed the previous generation (upon which the SR7500 is based), and awarded it a solid 4 stars, and commented on how well it draws you into a movie, especially with its dialogue presentation. The SR7500 is even better it also has the slam that was missing from the SR7400, auto setup and THX certification.

The Pioneer 2014 I would source from Germany as the local Pioneer agent is charging crazy prices.....

I just want to make sure I get it right. The 630 I have at the moment always gave me the impression of being soft and I find dialogue from the centre speaker to be bad, just not clear and crisp. First I had a Paradigm CC-350 centre which I always liked but when I got the Yam it seemed to drop out. I then went through changing to the KEFs but kept the Paradigm centre...eventually reaching the conclusion that the tonality of the system wasn't matched so I got the KEF Q9c, which if anything didn't sound as good??!

The Q9c is a very good centre, I'm wondering if it is more difficult to drive than the paradigm, hence the difference? Someone else probably has more knowledge on this than me though. The dialogue presentation on the Marantz is truly sublime though.

I've invested in decent speaker cable, there's some Monster stuff and some THX approved cable as well in my system and just spent a fortune on interconnects as well, QED P75, QED QNect for Optical etc.

My current player of choice is the HD935 from Samsung, but I don't think thats the sound culprit though perhaps slightly??? Was running a Tosh SD220E before and it seemed to sound better.

Any of the amps you have mentioned will have better DACs than either the Samsung or the Toshie, so use the digital connection and the DVD player will be used as purely a transport.

You mention the Pioneer has having the most in your face sound..... does it still have good steering and is it still clear or would it be similar to comparing a sub running in Slam or Depth mode (in the case of my REL!) to understand this better?

The Pioneer is very direct, and is not embarresed to throw sounds around, to quote what hi fi this month on their review of the Pioneer 814 "It's like having a bull in a china shop", meaning that it isn't exactly delicate. Some people like it, some people find it tiresome, I'm in the latter group . It will give you a massive soundstage, and is probably the movie mans choice. Dialogue 'may' suffer though, you will hear it fine, but it won't be as well defined as the Marantz, whereas explosions will be better defined (but only slightly) on the Pioneer.

One last question as both of these amps have auto setup function..... my seating position is around 6m away from the screen/receiver. Do I need to put the mic in the seating position area and if so is the cable long enough.

It should be fine, I know the Marantz came with a very long cable, and my seating position is about 4m's away, the cable still had a LOT of slack.

Thanks everyone for helping with this.....

No problem , we are here to help

One thing I will throw out though is this, how important music is in movies, if you listen carefully on most amps, you can hear the background music, and it is there for a reason, to enhance the movie, not many amps I've heard so far are able to bring the soundtrack of a film to life more than the Marantz, and I for one, would choose that over a bit of extra slam. The Arcams also do this very well, and the Rotels.

Sometimes, the emotion of a movie is overshadowed by the explosions, the Marantz doesn't let this happen.

One film that really brings this to light is Love Actually, ok, not the best film out there, but it IS a movie which highlights how important music is in a film. Just my 2p And remember, this is all subjective

 

[Diamond]

I find it unbelievable that none of the Sonys would register a result with all channels driven

What do you mean by that? DB790QS was measured 6x 65W 8 ohms rms in some UK-magazine. DB780 has less capable power supply, so the older ones are weaker here too.

 

[Kazman]

What do you mean by that? DB790QS was measured 6x 65W 8 ohms rms in some UK-magazine. DB780 has less capable power supply, so the older ones are weaker here too.

I was referring to the models on that link, again which upon reviewing it again, i missed one of the sonys that DID register a result, oops, sorry....

 

[Diamond]

That's ok.

( I know DE-Sonys have bad rep, but fortunately DB has earned the QS in their name)

 

[NPM108]

Thanks for the feedback and info. I think I will give the SR7500 a go, comments look very positive and never owned one before, price looks right and hopefully will work well with my setup.

Will keep you posted

P.S. Does anyone have a good supplier in Germany for Marantz where the price of the SR7500 would be good?

 

[Kazman]

That's ok.

( I know DE-Sonys have bad rep, but fortunately DB has earned the QS in their name)

Apart from the 795 Although they seem to have worked out that buzzing issue now

 

[mad earwig]

Hi, been reading this with interest. I can vouch for the SR 7500 which is a superb receiver. unlike its predecessor, it is now approved by THX and something to mention is that HCC review of the SR 7400 forgot to mention the component switching. It said it did not have it but it and the new SR 7500 has full composite up to component. the sound compared to the Pioneer and denon is definitely more refined and more 'hifi'.

 

[NPM108]

Thanks earwig, the more posts I see about the SR7500 the more re-assured I am that I'm going down the right route. The Marantz agent in Malta is def far more knowledgable that some of the other agents of choices I was considering and being a small island there only tends to be one shop/agent etc selling a brand.

I will def see if I can get a demo of this amp and am hoping that my existing Yam was having difficulty driving my KEF speakers.

Last bit which is a little off topic.....the Q9c was my last addition to my system and in my haste i just whipped it out the box and plugged it in...a few weeks later settled down to watch Nip/Tuck and heard this weird buzzing sound when each episode starts in the intro. I was like wtf haven't heard this before and went to investigate thinking I had popped the speaker......when I removed the grill I found a plastic protective covering over the speaker cone/dome (not sure what its called) which obviously said remove before use though it would have been nice if it was visible (ie red tab or something protruding outside of the grill).

Hope I didn't damage the speaker.....can anyone confirm?

 

[Kazman]

If it currently sounds fine then you are probably ok mate Your dealer should have told you about those though. I think those bits are there to protect the uni-q drivers during transit.

You will love the Marantz, it will run so well with the Kefs

 

[NPM108]

Heard the SR7500 and it certainly sounds the bomb. It was driving Bose M10 cubes so am hoping will sound better with my KEFs. I noticed they had to crank the system up to like -18db, okay yes was loud but at lower volumes was very subdued.

Is that from the speakers?

 

[Kazman]

Heard the SR7500 and it certainly sounds the bomb. It was driving Bose M10 cubes so am hoping will sound better with my KEFs. I noticed they had to crank the system up to like -18db, okay yes was loud but at lower volumes was very subdued.

Is that from the speakers?

Remember, not all amps measure the volume levels the same way. I have the volume set to about -25db for normal TV viewing, and crank it up to -10 for movies during the day time. At -25, it is fine, and this is with 6ohm Quad speakers.