Help - making sense of Audyssey Dynamic Eq and Volume

dante01

Distinguished Member
I cannot make the explanation I've given any simpler.

The measurements you've taken with the tape measure are not meaurements of delay. The AV receiver would measure the time it takes an audio signal to reach the mic. How exatly is your tape measuring calulating this?

Using a physical distance and the speed of sound to calculate how long it take sound to arrive at your listening location is fine, but doesn't account for or add the delay imposed by other factors such as the audio processing onboard an active sub. Your linear measurements are therefore inaccurate because you'd not be able to account for any such additional delay imposed upon the signal.

Why would you measurements result in better results than those resulting from the AV receiver using precise measurements of the actual time it takes the signal to reach the mic?



If you don't understand this then maybe don't tell other people to do it either. You are incorrect in your assumption that using a tape measure will give you more accurate results.



x

Distance​

Seriously, how important can this be? You let auto-calibration take care of this for you, or if you’re feeling particularly hands on, you might whip out the tape measure, right? A word of wisdom: don’t underestimate the power of the distance setting in your A/V receiver. Obviously the primary job of the distance setting is setting a delay relative to your other speakers. Note, the distance reported by your receiver’s auto-calibration will be inclusive of any delay caused by signal processing happening inside the subwoofer (EQ, low pass filtering, etc.), which can add several feet to the distance per your tape measure. Above and beyond this, the distance adjustment functions as a phase control of sorts. Adding or subtracting a couple feet from the distance of your subwoofer is a viable way of getting rid of an ugly peak or dip around the crossover point. Again, to make the most out of this tool, one does need the ability to take measurements. Still, who would have ever thought such an innocuous setting could have that kind of power?
 
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dante01

Distinguished Member
I'm late to this. Is there a sound meter you'd recommend to check each speaker is at 75dB?


You'll never get accurate measurements unless using a pro grade meter and these can be quite expensive. It is better to try ensure all the speakers are the same level relative to your listening location than it is to have them measure exactly 75db reference at 0db master volume. As long as you get it close to this then that would be fine. You can simply use a free SPL meter app on a phone to do this. Concentrate on getting the speakers to an equal level as opposed to getter them to measure exactly 75db.

I do have one of the rated Radio Shack meters, but these are no longer available. Even this wouldn't give you a spot on measurement.

The best way to go about things is to run the AV receiver's auto calibration and then tweak the levels afterward if required.

The Audyssey mic is more likely more accurate than most affordable handheld SPL meters. There's analysis on another board that shows the measurements via an Audyssey mic to be comparable to some rather expensive pro grade meters.
 
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jpn951

Novice Member
I cannot make the explanation I've given any simpler.

THe measurements you've taken with the tape measure are not meaurements of delay. THe AV receiver would measure the time it takes an audio signal to reach the mic. How exatly is your tape measuring calulating this?

Using the speed of sound to calculate hoe long it take sound to travel a distance is fine, but doesn't account for or add the delay imposed by other factirs such as the audio processing onboard an active sub. Your linear measurement are therefore inaccurate because you'd not be able to account for any such additional delay imposed upon the signal.

Why would you measurements result in better results than those resulting from the AV receiver using precise measurements of the actual time it takes the signal to reach the mic?

“THe measurements you've taken with the tape measure are not meaurements of delay.”

Like I have stated numerous times Sir, these physical measurements are only from the speakers relative to the listening position.


“ THe AV receiver would measure the time it takes an audio signal to reach the mic. How exatly is your tape measuring calulating this?”

It’s not. The AV receiver is. The AV receiver applies the appropriate delay the physical measurements.

“Using the speed of sound to calculate hoe long it take sound to travel a distance is fine, but doesn't account for or add the delay imposed by other factirs such as the audio processing onboard an active sub.”

However, if the sub does not have onboard processing (meaning turning it off to have the AV receiver do the processing) then in this case, this does not apply.

“Your linear measurement are therefore inaccurate because you'd not be able to account for any such additional delay imposed upon the signal.”

if all processing is done by the AV receiver, then it should provide the appropriate delay from the linear measurements.

“Why would you measurements result in better results than those resulting from the AV receiver using precise measurements of the actual time it takes the signal to reach the mic?”

Because in my case, the multiEQ did not measure the distance accurately.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
I've explained it to you. No, you've not ended up with more accurate settings by using a tape measure.

Tape measures do not measure audio delay, the AV receiver's auto calibration process and associated mic does.

end of.
 

jpn951

Novice Member
You'll never get accurate measurements unless using a pro grade meter and these can be quite expensive. It is better to try ensure all the speakers are the same level relative to your listening location than it is to have them measure exactly 75db reference at 0db master volume. As long as you get it close to this then that would be fine. You can simply use a free SPL meter app on a phone to do this. Concentrate on getting the speakers to an equal level as opposed to getter them to measure exactly 75db.

I do have one of the rated Radio Shack meters, but these are no longer available. Even this wouldn't give you a spot on measurement.

The best way to go about things is to run the AV receiver's auto calibration and then tweak the levels aftward if required.

The Audyssey mic is more likely more accurate than most affordable handheld SPL meters. There's analysis on another board that shows the measurements via an Audyssey mic to be comparable to some rather expensive pro grade meters.


You'll never get accurate measurements unless using a pro grade meter and these can be quite expensive. It is better to try ensure all the speakers are the same level relative to your listening location than it is to have them measure exactly 75db reference at 0db master volume. As long as you get it close to this then that would be fine. You can simply use a free SPL meter app on a phone to do this. Concentrate on getting the speakers to an equal level as opposed to getter them to measure exactly 75db.

I do have one of the rated Radio Shack meters, but these are no longer available. Even this wouldn't give you a spot on measurement.

The best way to go about things is to run the AV receiver's auto calibration and then tweak the levels aftward if required.

The Audyssey mic is more likely more accurate than most affordable handheld SPL meters. There's analysis on another board that shows the measurements via an Audyssey mic to be comparable to some rather expensive pro grade meters.

I use the UMIK-1 with REW.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Just because I say so?

Distance

Seriously, how important can this be? You let auto-calibration take care of this for you, or if you’re feeling particularly hands on, you might whip out the tape measure, right? A word of wisdom: don’t underestimate the power of the distance setting in your A/V receiver. Obviously the primary job of the distance setting is setting a delay relative to your other speakers. Note, the distance reported by your receiver’s auto-calibration will be inclusive of any delay caused by signal processing happening inside the subwoofer (EQ, low pass filtering, etc.), which can add several feet to the distance per your tape measure. Above and beyond this, the distance adjustment functions as a phase control of sorts. Adding or subtracting a couple feet from the distance of your subwoofer is a viable way of getting rid of an ugly peak or dip around the crossover point. Again, to make the most out of this tool, one does need the ability to take measurements. Still, who would have ever thought such an innocuous setting could have that kind of power?
 

jpn951

Novice Member
I've explained it to you. No, you've not ended up with more accurate settings by using a tape measure.

Tape measures do not measure audio delay, the AV receiver's auto calibration process and associated mic does.

end of.
 

jpn951

Novice Member
Have I gotten rude with you, try to make you feel stupid because I’m not agreeing with you?

No. I’d appreciate you keep your feelings to yourself. Thank you.
 

jpn951

Novice Member
I didn't mean to take this discussion and trample the main question. I should have just messaged that individual person my opinion.

I apologize to all of the forum members.
 
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darrenhaken

Active Member
I'll try an SPL meter on Android then and see if each speaker is the same volume. I have a physical meter (I was testing noise pollution in an old house) but when I used that against the constant tone the dB was flying +/- 4dB.

Each speaker was about the same volume though.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
I didn't mean to take this discussion and trample the main question. I should have just messaged that individual person to my opinion.

I apologize to all of the four members.
When you use Dynamic EQ do you find the rears are too loud or is that just me?

I can't believe someone could have their AVR at reference at a home! 75dB is pretty bloody loud.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
When you use Dynamic EQ do you find the rears are too loud or is that just me?

I can't believe someone could have their AVR at reference at a home! 75dB is pretty bloody loud.
That's the point of Dynamic EQ. It enhances the sound at lower volumes which gives the effect of being louder.

I have tried all the dynamic settings and still find myself adjusting them every time I watch something.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
That's the point of Dynamic EQ. It enhances the sound at lower volumes which gives the effect of being louder.

I have tried all the dynamic settings and still find myself adjusting them every time I watch something.
Adjusting them how?
 

gibbsy

Moderator
Adjusting them how?
Some models of Denon can, via the option button on the remote, adjust individual channels on the fly. Personally I don't use DEQ and it's usually a poor soundtrack that needs adjusting for dialogue which again can be done via the option button. An example of a disc with a poor dialogue is Wind River on blu ray disc. The options revert to your default when shut down.
 

darrenhaken

Active Member
Some models of Denon can, via the option button on the remote, adjust individual channels on the fly. Personally I don't use DEQ and it's usually a poor soundtrack that needs adjusting for dialogue which again can be done via the option button. An example of a disc with a poor dialogue is Wind River on blu ray disc. The options revert to your default when shut down.
My Denon allows me to adjust the centre channel on the fly via the option button.

To make sure I understand, once the Denon turns off it resets it?

That might be an excellent way to go.

@gibbsy do you ever use Dynamic Volume? I've been using it on Light to gain the dialogue but I'm not sure if to increase my centre instead.
 

DavidT

Well-known Member
Adjusting them how?
On my older Denon I can turn DEQ on/off and adjust the reference level 0dB/5dB/10dB/15dB, DVol can be either off/light/medium/heavy.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
My Denon allows me to adjust the centre channel on the fly via the option button.

To make sure I understand, once the Denon turns off it resets it?

That might be an excellent way to go.

@gibbsy do you ever use Dynamic Volume? I've been using it on Light to gain the dialogue but I'm not sure if to increase my centre instead.
Never use it. No kids, thick walls so neighbour doesn't hear a thing.
 

gibbsy

Moderator
I just imagine you listening at reference for everything - very loud 😂
Usually around -20dB to -15dB depending on source. I have to be able to hear and instantly respond to the 'put the kettle on' order. Yes Domina, at once Domina. She's never been the same since she watched HBO's Rome. Bloody Attia of the Julii.
 

jpn951

Novice Member
I'm late to this. Is there a sound meter you'd recommend to check each speaker is at 75dB?
At first I used an Android DB Meter. Its better then nothing lol. Then I purchased the radio shack DB Meter. You can still find them on eBay (Where I purchased mine) You sit at you listening position with the meter at ear level, set the RadioShack meter to 70db, then adjust each speaker to 75db.

After doing a bit of research however, I ended up purchasing a UMIK-1 with a long USB C Cable. The mic comes with a short stand that worked better for me as opposed to the microphone stand I purchased.

I use REW, (free software) with the UMIK-1. And use the DB Meter in REW. In my opinion, this setup worked way better for me then the RadioShack DB Meter in my setup in my room.

Personally, I know very little about REW however from what I understand, you can tweak your speakers as well as your subwoofer (with MiniDSP) to your specific room to make it sound better.

Please don't quote me on that, this is MY opinion only and you should do your own research to do what's best for you.
 
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darrenhaken

Active Member
At first I used an Android DB Meter. Its better then nothing lol. Then I purchased the radio shack DB Meter. You can still find them on eBay (Where I purchased mine) You sit at you listening position with the meter at ear level, set it to 70db, then adjust each speaker to 75db.

After doing a bit of research however, I ended up purchasing a UMIK-1 with a long USB C Cable. The mic comes with a short stand that worked better for me as opposed to the microphone stand I purchased.

I use REW, (free software) with the UMIK-1. And use the DB Meter in REW. In my opinion, this setup worked way better for me then the RadioShack DB Meter in my setup in my room.

Personally, I know very little about REW however from what I understand, you can tweak your speakers as well as your subwoofer (with MiniDSP) to your specific room to make it sound better.

Please don't quote me on that, this is MY opinion only and you should do your own research to do what's best for you.
The UMIK-1 looks pricey!

Did you find the results to be superior?
 

jpn951

Novice Member
That's the point of Dynamic EQ. It enhances the sound at lower volumes which gives the effect of being louder.

I have tried all the dynamic settings and still find myself adjusting them every time I watch something.

I use Dynamic EQ and for the most part,
The UMIK-1 looks pricey!

Did you find the results to be superior?

On my current setup, yes. However,
at the time when I was using the Android app, then upgraded to the Radio Shack meter, I had different speakers.

Once my speakers were upgraded, I decided to get the UMIK-1 & use REW. (Room EQ Wizard with a MiniDSP)
I did not purchase the mic just to use the DB meter in REW. Most likely, if there was not a db meter in REW, I would have used my RadioShack DB meter to set my speakers to 75db.

I feel that using the mic/REW meter, compared to the App and The RadioShack meter, I got closer to 75db then the others. But I cannot compare since I did NOT use the Android app or the Radio Shack meter on my new setup.

The RadioShack meter I purchased was the same meter Gene Desala from Audioholics used in the video I watched on how to set my speakers to 75db properly. I figured, if it's good enough for Gene, it's good enough for me 😁👍🏻

When I initially used the RadioShack DB meter, I felt it did a much better job then the Android app however, a few weeks went by and I rechecked my settings and found they were off? I don't remember by how far, but they were. I went ahead and changed the battery to a new one, ran it again. At that point, I don't recall if the settings stuck or not. I upgraded weeks later.

You can always hop on eBay and purchase yourself a RadioShack DB meter. If you don't like it or it doesn't work out, your not in it for $100+

l believe I got mine for less then $30 USD
 
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Tingo

Active Member
Hi, as you have the app have you considered creating a house curve. My post calibration is designed for vocals. I use dv light for vocals. My curve has no bass boost so I use deq to add it. In my curve I have a small cut in the mid bass primary for vocals but appears to be helping reduce the deq boost in that area. I added 4db to the sw trim and deq offset 10 which gives great rumble without being overpowering in the bass. I Like the increase in the rears but with my denon x3500h I can adjust individual speakers and have the option to reduce them by the 1db per - 5 deq adds. As I have a 4db boost in the curve at high frequencies to add clarity and presence to vocals I have added 4db to the centre. My centre is only rated to 68hz so I set my crossover at 100 as it sounded clearer than 80. Vocals sound to me like being at the cinema with my bass rumbling away when needed.
 

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