Help - I've been rather foolish

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by tenohfive, Feb 11, 2018.

  1. tenohfive

    tenohfive
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    I returned a faulty soundbar today and was offered store credit. I made a (sort of) impulse buy - the Denon AVR-X2400H was on my wish list as the basis for a whole new TV/speaker/AVR setup, but a good few months in the future. So having no 'proper' speakers, in the short term I figured I'd just connect it up to some old Logitech PC speakers, figuring it'd still be an improvement on the onboard sound on my 9 year old Panasonic plasma.

    As you've probably already worked out, I can't connect even them. I'd naively assumed the X2400 would have a 3.5mm output.

    Long term my setup was always going to be towards the budget end of things, but I don't think I can stretch to even £500 for a set of speakers right now. So far as I can see, my options are either to live without the X2400 until I've got some speakers, buy a half decent centre speaker and add the rest later, buy an HS2 (which I'd always planned to get for multi-room) or two...or is there an option 4?

    I'm completely new to home cinema and totally out of my depth so if anyone can offer some advice I'd be grateful.
     
  2. wiz

    wiz
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    I'd get a centre speaker and take your time getting the rest. Have a look in the classifieds!
     
  3. Rambles

    Rambles
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    Can you afford these?

    Tannoy Speakers Per Pair

    About as inexpensive as you can get for floortanding speakers, should get you up and running, and you can add additional speakers as and when.
     
  4. tenohfive

    tenohfive
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    Cheers for the prompt responses.

    I can probably stretch to £150 (any more and SWMBO will kill me) - part of the reason I've considered the HS2 is that I can get £15 cashback through Denon. Not a deal breaker mind. And I can't find any examples of anyone using one as a centre speaker (even short term) so I'm thinking it's probably not the best move.

    I can't fit floorstanders space wise into my current setup, but a centre speaker could work.

    I may have done my own legs however; I found a 3.5mm headphone adapter, so I do have sound. Even if it bothers me having the clean lines buggered by the ouput from the front. I'm seriously considering messing with the settings to ruin GoT sound quality in order to swing the addition of something past the wife.
     
  5. kinggo

    kinggo
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    IMO, any cheap soundbar (again) is better buy than some speakers that for whatever reason you won't be able to use later on.
     
  6. Rambles

    Rambles
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    The problem with a centre speaker is that you will only get mono sound with all the dialogue, music, effects etc being mixed down to 1 speaker by the AVR, so it might not sound very exciting.

    If you can't fit in floorstanders, some entry level bookshelf speakers, connected to the Denon, and configured in stereo mode, should give a much better initial set-up than one centre speaker would. You would at least have some stereo imaging going on, which should fill the room better, and the AVR will create a 'phantom' centre from this stereo image, for the dialogue.

    You could then maybe use those as your surround speakers when you are ready to upgrade and get some better speakers for the front, ideally with a matching centre.

    Here are some entry level speakers:

    Wharfedale Speakers Per Pair

    Mordaunt Short Speakers Per Pair

    Mordaunt Short Speakers Per Pair

    These look a great bargain:

    DALI Speakers Per Pair

    Q Acoustics 2010i Bookshelf Speakers
     
  7. dante01

    dante01
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    An AVR cannot be configured to use only a centre speakers and requires at least a left and a right front speaker in order for you to be able to use it.

    You need to be looking at a pair of stereo speakers to get yourself started with. Maybe then add a sub and some surround speakers followed lastly by a matching centre speaker. Try to buy front speakers that will match the other speakers that you will be adding at a later date.

    I'd suggest the following pair of speakers as being a very good value for money option:
    Q Acoustics Speakers Per Pair

    I'd suggest this sub as being better than Q Acoustics' sub:
    Gemini

    Here are the surrounds that would accompany the front pair:
    Q Acoustics Speakers Per Pair

    and finally the matching centre speaker:
    Q Acoustics Single Centre Speaker


    When it comes to adding additional height, upward firing or ceiling speakers then this will depend upon which option you decide is best for you and the room the speakers will be housed in?
     
  8. tenohfive

    tenohfive
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    Okay, a pair of speakers it is. That does make sense and I'm happy to get started - I just want to make sure whatever I get now to tide me over will function well later as part of a wider setup.

    I shouldn't focus too much on what works now when the whole setup will be moving soon, but the Zensor 1's are about 10mm too big to fit on the mantlepiece right now. The Pico's would fit if they're any cop? As would the Q 3020's.

    I could stretch to the 3020's at £200 and they're eye candy, but having seen that they were on sale for £119 less than two months ago, it would bug me to pay full price now. If they're worth it mind, I will. On researching them I'm seeing some reviews suggesting the Mission LX-2's are a better alternative? Although they wouldn't fit the current setup (they'd have to go on the floor instead.)

    Cheers for the replies though, I appreciate your patience.
     
  9. dante01

    dante01
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    The Mission speakers are a good option and perform well, but aren't as asthetically pleasing as the Q Acoustics speakers. If you can live with the looks of the Mission speakers then there's no real reason not to choose them rather than the Q Acoustics option. You may have issues sourcing a matching centre for the Mission speakers at a later date though depending upon how long it is before you are ready to add a centre speaker to your setup?
     
  10. scoobysmiff

    scoobysmiff
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    Wharfedale diamond 220 from Richer Sounds. £119 per pair and good speakers to boot from what I can see. Well recommended. A matching centre is available and is not silly money either. Good luck
     
  11. mcarpe

    mcarpe
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    The Denon sys2020 is a basic 5.1 sub sat package available for £150 down from £300 here. The customer reviews aren't half bad.

    Might be a good starter then upgrade the fronts / centre as time and funds allow?
     
  12. yoskiwoski

    yoskiwoski
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  13. tenohfive

    tenohfive
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    It will probably be a few months before I add a second. I do prefer the aesthetics of the Q's, no doubt - they're gorgeous. Do deals come up on them particularly often?

    Would I get away with using the 3010's as fronts in the short term, whilst holding out for a discount on the 3020's?

    The Diamond 220's did catch my eye too.

    Missions, Zensor 1's, 3010/3020's, Diamonds - are they all around the same quality level, with budget and looks the differentiators?
     
  14. tenohfive

    tenohfive
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    I'm open to second hand, I just don't know what I'm looking for. I can Google, and I can say, "ahhh, that looks purrrrdy..." but that's the extent of my ability to spot a worthwhile deal. (I am trying to learn mind.)
     
  15. John7

    John7
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    Get a pair of JBL Control 1’s for around £80.00 to tide you over.
     
  16. yoskiwoski

    yoskiwoski
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    There are loads of options, but as you've invested in a decent surround amp I would personally get a 5.1 package, if you putting the fronts on a mantlepiece i'd have thought you want fairly small speakers
     
  17. tenohfive

    tenohfive
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    In the short term they'll be on a mantlepiece, but long term they'll be in a dedicated room where I can place them appropriately. And I don't want to buy twice. So I'm happy buying a half-decent pair to use as fronts, but which will become my surrounds later on if need be. Or just buy decent fronts. Either way, I want to get something that I'll keep for the eventual ideal setup.

    I'm ruling out the Diamond 220's - the reviews are great, but there are better looking options of the same quality.
    Q3020's or 3010's I like the look of (aesthetically and reviews wise.)
    Spektor 1's or Spektor 2's - what's the view on them? Both options look pretty good to me. Although I still can't quite work out whether I love or loathe their appearance.
    LX-2's, as stated getting everything matched up later could be a bit tricky.

    If it swings anything, the priority is decent audio for films and Netflix etc. It sounds like all will do a decent job of that though?
     
  18. dante01

    dante01
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    You could use 3010 speakers at the front, but the need for a sub then becomes slighly more important bacause of the speaker's lesser ability to portray lower frequencies. The advantage gained by using 30120 speakers at the front is marginal though.

    Frequency response of the 3010 speakers: 68Hz - 22kHz. Rated respomse of the 3020 speakers: 64Hz - 22kHz.


    Both ultimately require a sub, but the 3020 speakers slightly less so.



    Also note that most of the smaller sat speakers are dependant upon a sub for their bass. The smaller the speakers then the more likely it is that you'd need a sub to handle the frequencies that they cannot portray.
     
  19. Rambles

    Rambles
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    I'd favour the Dali's personally. I have a pair of Pico's on my desk and they sound great. Also there are a lot of Dali's to choose from so you could easily match them when you are ready to expand to a surround set up.
     
  20. jimster99

    jimster99
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    There IS a headphone socket, it's on the front. It's a 6.5mm socket so you just need a 6.5mm socket to 3.5mm socket converter, doubtless maplin will sell them, or buy from ebay / amazon.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/3-5mm-6-5mm-Adaptor-Audio-Converter/dp/B003L0S5S0

    Gold 3.5mm Stereo Plug to 6.35mm Stereo Socket Adapter | maplin

    Or you could just buy some cheapo speakers - Edge Mini were £20 a pair (not sure if still available) or Diamond Wharfedale 9.0 at £40/pair from Richer sounds. You also need some cheapo speaker cable (maplin, richer sounds, amazon all have this - I got 30m of 16 gauge cable for around £15 from amazon last year and it's perfect).
     
  21. dollag

    dollag
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    I'd maybe try and source a pair of kef q100's. for stereo imagery, they are hard to beat and if your keep an eye out, can be had for sub £150 a pair. I recently got my Mother and her partner a pair and they are blown away with them. They have a sub with theirs but they go low enough (sub 50hz i believe) for the short term if you cannot get a sub atm.

    Also as size is an issue, look at the MA Radios range links below.

    Monitor Audio Radius 90 Speakers with mounting brackets | eBay

    Monitor Audio Radius 180HD in Piano Gloss Black | eBay

    Due to the frequency response of the MA's, your going to need a sub with these ideally but will still sound miles better than your TV speakers

    Another option could be to source a pair of kef 3005 (again will need a sub) but are a great little speaker and can be used for rears or heights once you can upgrade your fronts. Seen these sell for approx £120 a pair

    For subs, look no further than BK electronics

    BK Electronics XLS200-DF MK2 Powered Subwoofer. Light Oak Veneer | eBay

    Q acoustics are also great and I am sure a pair of these will also yield great results. My Dad is currently running them with the Denon 2400 and is very happy with them. I personally prefer the uniQ of the Kefs but it's a personal thing. maybe try and get some demo's under your belt and see what you prefer.
     
  22. tenohfive

    tenohfive
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    I can't get on with the look of the Kef speakers - egg shaped is interesting and quirky, but I'm not sure I'm a fan.

    Space shouldn't be an issue really - I've thrown in a red herring. But whilst I don't know what size room the eventual setup will go in, it's unlikely to be big and they could end up being wall mounted so it wouldn't do any harm to go for the smaller end of the scale for rears. So it's still Spekter 1's vs. 3000's for me right now. It doesn't sound like there's much between them.

    Sub's are a whole other issue. I'll probably post nearer the time, but £200-ish would be my upper limit. I'm after definition rather than pure output - I want to be able to clearly pick out the intricacies of dialogue in between action scenes, but whilst not being at neighbour-annoying volume levels. A couple of reviews of the Gemini II mentioned a bit of lack of definition?
    I suppose being more hidden away at least the sub doesn't need to match the rest of it all so I've got some options.

    Side issue if someone wouldn't mind humouring me (my Googling will get me an answer later if need be) - cabling. What do I need to connect speakers to the 2400H, having never connected a speaker before?
     
  23. Navvie

    Navvie
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    The 1000 and 2000 series Q Acoustics bookshelf speakers go on ebay second hand for not much money. Not enough to worry about throwing them in the bin (or back on ebay) when you upgrade.

    You'll still want a sub if going with the QA bookshelfs.

    Speaker cable? Lots of recommendation for Van Damme blue, I've used the cable below which worked out a bit cheaper. Unless you have *very* long runs, 2.5mm will be enough.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00KB0JVAE/?th=1
     
  24. Monty Nine

    Monty Nine
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    Buy whatever decent bookshelves for fronts now that you can use for your surrounds next year when you upgrade the fronts.
     
  25. tenohfive

    tenohfive
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    That's what I'm intending to do Monty. Right now I'm inclined to either get Q 3010's, 3020's or Dali Spektor 1 or 2's depending on what comes up as the best deal come payday. All look good (the 3000's especially), get solid reviews and look within budget. If I get Dali 2's for instance, they'll probably stay as my fronts and I'll get either another pair or Dali 1's at a later date for surrounds. Likewise 3020's and 3010's. Although 3020's seem extortionately priced at £200 right now.

    If I start buying cheap seconds now, I'll bottle the whole new plan of making a good head start on the audio setup before I sort the TV.

    I'll want a sub regardless, but I'm just not sure what for £200-250, that'll net me good clear audio without blowing the roof off.. But even with something like 3010's I'm expecting better performance than a 12+ year old set of cheap PC speakers.

    That cable looks fine. Do I need anything else other than a pair of wire cutters?
     
  26. Navvie

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    Understand about the cheap speakers. My QA 1010i bookshelfs (from a 5.1 set) ended up being my rear surrounds when I bought some matching floor standers.

    Some will suggest banana plugs, just base the wire and twist the strands.
     
  27. ShanePJ

    ShanePJ
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  28. stripeyjoe

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    Get yourself a Kef 5.1 system second hand, I had the set with the PSW2010 sub and they were perfectly good for normal listening, my set replaced a pair of Rogers LS7t's which was a big ask. You'll be able to sell then on later if you upgrade with a minimal loss. Pretty sure you could pick up a whole set for £200. also going very cheap are used Mordaunt Shorts, you can probably get 2 bookshelf speakers and the 905c centre for £150 and keep an eye out for the matching surround ones and get whichever sub-woofer you can get away with SWMBO-wise! Also, in Mordaunt Shorts, there are the 908i (I think, look at my sig!), these are floorstanders with side firing 10" sub woofers. Bi-amp them so you can pump some more power into the subs and you might not even need a dedicated sub for a while. I think there are some on eBay now, but a tad pricey, they have sold for less than £150.
     
  29. mooperman

    mooperman
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    id be raiding the classifieds on here - always a bargain to be had and i bet you could easily find something decent to fit your £150 budget.

    Personally i'd be starting out with a 2.0 speaker config and build on it from there - once youve got an initial system in its easy to upgrade certain bits and sell off the older kit.... just a case of making the jump.

    Good luck :)
     
  30. dannnielll

    dannnielll
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    You can amplify your budget by going less on speaker cable... Ignore banana plugs and visit your hardware shop and buy 1.5 or 2.5 mm sq twin and earth or even better twin without earth.. not as pretty ,but just as effective, and the loudspeaker don't have eyes and won't know the difference.
     

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