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help? for self-employed

blue max

Distinguished Member
Utterly baffled. Thrown it back to my accountant and will probably give him as much as I make. Nothing til june!

And seems he's going to clobber us for tax going forward. Time to retire!
 
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blue max

Distinguished Member
Do you think it's unfair?
Fair would be proportional help for everyone. Unfortunately, there are so many holes in both of these schemes, that many will be given little or no help.

I work through a limited company and take a minimal salary and draw dividends from the company (which are taxable). That basically means that my income is minimal.

So, I will effectively get very little, if anything. And not until June. And have been threatened that my National Insurance will increase going forward.

An employee on a good salary may be getting up to £2,500 per month for at least three months. But many are falling through the holes in that too.

So no, I find the whole thing very divisive.
 

MrSossidge

Distinguished Member
Fair would be proportional help for everyone. Unfortunately, there are so many holes in both of these schemes, that many will be given little or no help.

I work through a limited company and take a minimal salary and draw dividends from the company (which are taxable). That basically means that my income is minimal.

So, I will effectively get very little, if anything. And not until June. And have been threatened that my National Insurance will increase going forward.

An employee on a good salary may be getting up to £2,500 per month for at least three months. But many are falling through the holes in that too.

So no, I find the whole thing very divisive.
Do you take out all your profits as dividends or do you have a war chest to fall back on in leaner times. My wife is in a similar boat but as a contractor has built up a buffer to fall back on should she be out of work.
 

InvisibleDuncan

Well-known Member
I work through a limited company and take a minimal salary and draw dividends from the company (which are taxable). That basically means that my income is minimal.
Aren't the dividends taxable at a much lower rate, though? Meaning that you've effectively been paying less tax than an employee with the same gross income?
 

Freestyler8

Active Member
Indeed you have. And based on what you've said, you'll get nothing.

The government wants you to take out interest free loans and pay yourself from that.

Your vat bill, personal tax bill, debt and mortgage payments are deferred for 3 months.

I've little sympathy for those who have historically paid less tax than the rest of us, disposed of all of said income and now want a bailout.
 

Solomon Grundy

Distinguished Member
What about a 3 person equal partnership which posted more than £50k profit but less than 3 X £50k profit per person?
 

blue max

Distinguished Member
Well, spoken to my accountant and I will indeed get nothing at all.

When I was working with my ex, we pitched for a contract with a client who insisted they would only deal with Limited Companies. Once that was completed, our accountants always said it made little difference which way we were registered. It would make more difference if the turnover started to escalate significantly though (never did!). The corporation tax on dividends is 19%, so barely better if you don't move into the higher rate tax (which I have never done). I'm not VAT registered.

I rent (£1400 month). No help.

I have a little extra time to pay my tax bill, but that assumes things will just get back to normal in a month or two.

Not sure why the venom being shown here. I get no holiday pay. I get no redundancy payout. I get no sick pay. I get no protection. I get no employer contributed pension scheme. I can't sign on if my income drops. Plus, as my income is low, I can't even get a serious mortgage. So it's not all a bed of roses!

As it happens, I have absolutely no need of a handout from the government. But this horse dung about all being in this together and we will take care of you is an insult.

I'm part of the 5% (and I'm sure it's a much larger percentage than that), that are subsidising people on decent salaries to sit on their butts. I'm managing to work whilst they relax. So, no, it really isn't fair at all.
 

koeman

Well-known Member
So if you dont need it, why did you get your accountant to check what you were entitled to?

It's things like that what wind people up.

People struggle to have sympathy for self employed people who have earned most of their wage through paying dividends as a way to circumvent paying as much tax on it. You can't then come saying you want the same deal as people who are PAYE.

Also a lot of self employed also take undeclared cash work. Not saying you have.
 

LM1405

Suspended
Fair would be proportional help for everyone. Unfortunately, there are so many holes in both of these schemes, that many will be given little or no help.

I work through a limited company and take a minimal salary and draw dividends from the company (which are taxable). That basically means that my income is minimal.

So, I will effectively get very little, if anything. And not until June. And have been threatened that my National Insurance will increase going forward.

An employee on a good salary may be getting up to £2,500 per month for at least three months. But many are falling through the holes in that too.

So no, I find the whole thing very divisive.
So you pay yourself a minimal salary and take the rest in dividends and you expect us PAYE to bail you out. My heart bleeds.
 

sparkie1984

Distinguished Member
I went self employed in January this year after being made redundant. I’m not entitled to any gov help either.

All my sites are shut down and I have no work. After working and being employed my whole working life the government have massively let me down with all this.

My partner has been furloughed but her wage isn’t enough to pay our rent let alone other bills.

I am considering going to work stacking shelves or something but not sure if going forward that will mess up my taxes etc?

Why couldn’t they have reviewed my last years PAYE info to help us out?

I honestly feel like at times this government want us to all give up and live on benefits.
 

sparkie1984

Distinguished Member
So if you dont need it, why did you get your accountant to check what you were entitled to?

It's things like that what wind people up.

People struggle to have sympathy for self employed people who have earned most of their wage through paying dividends as a way to circumvent paying as much tax on it. You can't then come saying you want the same deal as people who are PAYE.

Also a lot of self employed also take undeclared cash work. Not saying you have.

Also a lot are decent, honest people who do it all legitimately.
 

LM1405

Suspended
And? There’s a lot who don’t also.

I have worked with people when employed who would do cash jobs....
Somebody on PAYE cannot do cash in hand unless they're doing outside their normal employment or hiding it from their employer. No good the self employed crying wolf when they hide things from the taxman & pay a lot less tax than someone employed and who earns the same money.
 

sparkie1984

Distinguished Member
Somebody on PAYE cannot do cash in hand unless they're doing outside their normal employment or hiding it from their employer. No good the self employed crying wolf when they hide things from the taxman & pay a lot less tax than someone employed and who earns the same money.
Trust me many electricians I worked with would do “private jobs” at weekends. Do you think that they declare it? Get real.

You clearly have some major issues with self employed people and like people in all sectors there will be bad ones of course but the key is not to let your prejudice obscure your judgement on who “deserves” to be helped.

I’ve been self employed for 2 months so I deserve no help because you hate the self employed?

I’ve been PAYE my whole life until redundancy.
 

leo79

Well-known Member
I've deleted what I orinally wrote but I will say there are people on here who have a very blinkered view on how people operate businesses, whether self employed or through a company.
There will always be people who try to cheat the system, and some people will always ask those people to cheat the system if it means saving themselves a bit of cash.
I know those who are self employed and declare absolutely everything and those who are employed who sell things or do jobs on the side for extra undeclared cash.
But to say that all self employed cheat the system is just plain wrong.
 

sparkie1984

Distinguished Member
I've deleted what I orinally wrote but I will say there are people on here who have a very blinkered view on how people operate businesses, whether self employed or through a company.
There will always be people who try to cheat the system, and some people will always ask those people to cheat the system if it means saving themselves a bit of cash.
I know those who are self employed and declare absolutely everything and those who are employed who sell things or do jobs on the side for extra undeclared cash.
But to say that all self employed cheat the system is just plain wrong.

Exactly! Like saying one dodgy cop means they’re all bad or a certain race of people are more likely to commit a crime etc etc.

But you can’t reason with people who have those sort of prejudices
 

LM1405

Suspended
Trust me many electricians I worked with would do “private jobs” at weekends. Do you think that they declare it? Get real.

You clearly have some major issues with self employed people and like people in all sectors there will be bad ones of course but the key is not to let your prejudice obscure your judgement on who “deserves” to be helped.

I’ve been self employed for 2 months so I deserve no help because you hate the self employed?

I’ve been PAYE my whole life until redundancy.
That's between them & the taxman. Get real? You need to get real, more self employed people do not declare their full earnings than PAYE.

What prejudice? Because I pointed out simple facts. Would you like to dispute that someone self employed pays less tax on the same money as someone on PAYE.

There you go again accusing me of hating the self employed, get a life.

I've deleted what I orinally wrote but I will say there are people on here who have a very blinkered view on how people operate businesses, whether self employed or through a company.
There will always be people who try to cheat the system, and some people will always ask those people to cheat the system if it means saving themselves a bit of cash.
I know those who are self employed and declare absolutely everything and those who are employed who sell things or do jobs on the side for extra undeclared cash.
But to say that all self employed cheat the system is just plain wrong.
Yes there will always be people who cheat the system whether employed or self employed though self employed have a far greater scope of doing so.
 

sparkie1984

Distinguished Member
That's between them & the taxman. Get real? You need to get real, more self employed people do not declare their full earnings than PAYE.

What prejudice? Because I pointed out simple facts. Would you like to dispute that someone self employed pays less tax on the same money as someone on PAYE.

There you go again accusing me of hating the self employed, get a life.
I notice you didn’t answer my question regarding whether in your opinion I was entitled to any help.

You clearly have major issues with the self employed. To be honest I don’t know about the whole tax thing as it’s all new to me so wouldn’t comment on it.

My point is employed workers in certain industries do a lot of private work.

Anyway I can feel the rage through my phone screen so shall leave it there.

Have a pleasant evening :thumbsup:
 

Freestyler8

Active Member
It would be nice if everybody could get help in this crisis, but it just isn't possible.

Fyi, your landlord cant kick you out for not paying your rent at the moment, so there's £1,400 you don't need each month.

Let's not even think how we're going to get out of this mes afterwards. Way more government debt to repay than we've dealt with in the last decade, and cuts to public services are already bad enough.
 

Tempest

Distinguished Member
Seeing as you can get this money AND still carry out going out to work (finding what work you can)
Seems a pretty sweet deal to me.
 

LM1405

Suspended
I notice you didn’t answer my question regarding whether in your opinion I was entitled to any help.

You clearly have major issues with the self employed. To be honest I don’t know about the whole tax thing as it’s all new to me so wouldn’t comment on it.

My point is employed workers in certain industries do a lot of private work.

Anyway I can feel the rage through my phone screen so shall leave it there.

Have a pleasant evening :thumbsup:
I did not say you weren't entitled to any help but looking at what has been said I doubt it.

Why would I have issue's with the self employed? However for them to cry wolf when most likely they're not being honest with the taxman is a different story when they expect PAYE to bail them out.

I have no rage.

I hope your new venture succeeds and you enjoy it 👍
 

sparkie1984

Distinguished Member
It would be nice if everybody could get help in this crisis, but it just isn't possible.

Fyi, your landlord cant kick you out for not paying your rent at the moment, so there's £1,400 you don't need each month.

Let's not even think how we're going to get out of this mes afterwards. Way more government debt to repay than we've dealt with in the last decade, and cuts to public services are already bad enough.
Good point regarding the rent. What does worry me though is whether Non payment will affect credit scores / references going forward.

It’s all such an unknown for everyone at the moment. Difficult to know what to do
 

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