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Help for a CRT newbie ....

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by neilc, Oct 23, 2002.

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  1. neilc

    neilc
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    I'm in the process of setting up a new system from scratch and have decided that a pj is necessary (I need a big image). I've had a demo of the SIM200 PJ and am arranging for a demo of the Ellie XS2000HT/XS3000HT PJ's in a week or two.

    I wondered whether anyone had any comments to make on either of these models through owning one themselves.

    I appreciated that the SIM is a DLP whereas the Ellie is a CRT, but find that the price of the Ellie is unbelieveable for a CRT (4000/6000 GBP)...

    ... I guess I'm going to receive loads of bad news about the Ellie with this posting ... although I must say that Screens UK (the sole UK supplier) has been very helpful with advice and info, but nothing speaks louder than the comments on a forum like this.

    Thanks in advance for your replies.

    Neil.
     
  2. Messiah

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    Have you considered a second hand CRT? You could get something with an equivalent or better picture quality for a LOT less.
     
  3. Guest

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    Hi,
    I would be very careful with Screens Uk as i had a very bad experience with them a few years ago, they sold me a lcd projector that went pop and would not give me my money back OR exchange of unit, i had to take them to the small claims court to get my money back.
    If you are going to buy from them then make sure you have a good warranty, they are nice at first but once something goes wrong they don't want to know!, take it from me i've been there!!!!

    forget the Ellie they are crap go for something like a Barco they are built to last, there are some good people on this forum that are willing to help.
    thanks
    pike
     
  4. MATT JENNER

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    i would have to disagree with Pike here,

    I have bought both a 2000 and 3000 from screens uk, there service has been brilliant, any problems and i have only had 2 on the 2000, which was an earthing problem, and one with the convergance board, but they swapped over the projector and the engineer came out at their cost and replaced it with a new one,

    Of course you can buy a 2nd hand barco from Roland and Gordon who specialise in reconditioned and new projectors,
    My opinion as always been go and see for yourself, the ellie projectors are good value for money, i have got the 3000, and i got a set of 2nd hand glass lenses hd125, and the picture is just as sharp and as good as most projectors in the higher price brackets,

    Of course it is the same with anything, the higher price you pay the better the higher quality you will get,
    the barcos are massive in comparison to the ellie, so if space is the determining factor then go and have a look for yourself.

    They do not specialise in the Lcd techonology, i had problems with an locd i got from sevenoakes hifi and they were jut as unhelpful, no refund, but would swap it over, which of course i did not want to do, but this is best discussed in the lcd forum. so no more said.
     
  5. Guest

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    well matt you were lucky that you even got a swap as i got nothing, and as for lcd they DID sell them 2 years ago to try and raise money to fund and promote there so called Ellie (RCF) i was just advising the guy so he does not get ripped off like i did, maybe you were just one of the lucky one's !!!!!
     
  6. MATT JENNER

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    Fair enough that is what this forum is for to express opinions,
    as always we all can only go by our experiences,

    and mine was a good one
     
  7. Chris Frost

    Chris Frost
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    Neil,
    It's hard to buy a bad CRT home cinema projector, but like all things in life you do get what you pay for.

    The Ellies are OK for the money compared to other new CRTs. Last time I looked I found that the 2000 lacks digital convergence and I find the image a little soft, but there are those who love the projector.

    The 3000 adds digital convergence which gives more accurate colour alignment and allows different picture aspect ratios. It also has a built-in line tripler making it just about the cheapest new line tripled CRT.

    Sim2 make a couple of different versions of the 200. The DMF is the one to go for if budget allows. All use a sealed optical system (dust proof) with a high quality lens assembly from Fujinon which has a clever lens shift system for lossless keystone correction. You'll also find that the colour rendition is very accurate with the Sim2 DLPs.

    From memory I think all the 200s use a 4:3 DLP panel. This means you may see a dark grey halo above and below the widescreen image.

    Buying second hand gets you a lot more bang for your buck. Sim2 HT300s come up for £6-6500, there is a Seleco/Sim2 SVP400 with glass lens upgrade for about £2500 in the S/H forum, and a wide range of used Barco and Sony CRTs too.

    The Seleco CRTs are designed for use as a home product and are quite compact. The design is very consumer friendly, where as the Sonys and bigger Barcos may give higher performance but look a little more commercial.

    If you are buying s/h CRT then you'll save enough money to splash out on a really good quality line doubler or scaler. These will often outperform the built-in doublers/triplers that some manufacturers build into thier products.

    Regards
     
  8. neilc

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    Hi Guys,

    Well, I feel better informed and will take heed on the info supplied regarding Screens-UK, although I appreciate the good report about them.

    With regard to a s/h Barco, what sort of price would I be looking at ?

    Would I be better looking at a SIM rather than a CRT ?

    Thanks again.
     
  9. Matinee

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    You can basically pay as much as you want, Barco wise - the more you pay, the better the image. An electromagnetic focused projector (EMF) is sharper than the cheaper models using electrostatic focusing.

    CRTs offer great blacks and detail, on the downside they are physically large and very heavy (my Barco 1208 is one of the larger ones and is 117cm by 70cm by 35cm), the need for reasonable light control - it'll still work with ambient light, but the image will be washed out (note that if you have light reflective paintwork, such as the magnolia walls in my lounge, it's pointless making sure that no light comes through the curtains - the image is still great though)

    There is a warm up period associated with CRT projecters; typically it's best after half an hour or so, but using a less critical eye the convergence is usually only really out for the first few minutes (at least in the case of my PJ).

    DLP projectors are small and very convenient, they may or may not be noisier than CRT projectors. On the downside the blacks are not as good. Some people also suffer from DLP rainbows; this differs between models and is impossible to miss if you do suffer
    from them. I thought the plain HT200 was extremely bad in this respect; later Sim2 systems with double speed colour wheels may be better.

    I bought my Barco 1208 from Roland @ B4 and so far am very happy with it. If I had six grand to spend on a projector, I'd go for a second hand 1209.

    You sound like you've already looked into projectors; presumably the cost of a screen and scaler/HTPC have already been factored into your budget?

    In the end the choice comes down to a compromise in convenience, picture quality and Wife Acceptance Factor (if appropriate).

    PK
     
  10. James McHugh

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    Pike,
    I direct these comments to you unless you're still hiding behind the wife's skirt.
    You were offered against your OUT OF WARRANTY, 2ND HAND PROJECTOR:-
    1. A part refund - you had used it for 6 months, and dropped it. We know this for a fact-we have the engineers' report.
    2. A BRAND NEW Eike LCD in it's box, hand delivered to your door,
    3. A higher - spec pre-owned LCD as soon as one was available.

    Your demands were totally unreasonable, and so are your comments on this forum. YOU HAVE NEVER SEEN THE ELLIE IN OPERATION as it did not exist then, therefore how can you say it's "crap"
    You will discover that you are back in court under the charge of slander. You will be hearing from our solicitor.

    I would like to throw this open to anyone else who would like to comment on our service. And can guarantee Pike that he is the only one with a problem.
     
  11. Guest

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    Jim
    as you never spoke to myself or my wife i don't know how you can comment, it took numerous attempts and left messages for us to get in touch with you, and that is why we had to resort to taking you to court. you were available when we purchased the projector but no where to be seen when we had problems, you hid behind your staff and would not even speak to me. so you can not comment on this.
    and if the demands were unreasonable why did we get our money back through the court process.
    I just advised to make sure that the warranty was checked before making a purchase,and I had the projector for 3 months and a copy of the engineers report which does not state that it was dropped.
    but the purpose of this forum is for members to be able to advise and discuss experiences, and unfortunately mine was not a happy one it was a long and distressing period of solicitors, trading standards and courts which thankfully got resolved in the end.
    maybe I was the only person to have a bad experience but I have the right to express my opinion.
    I didn't go into a lot of details as it is up to the individual to make up their own mind. you are the one that has listed all the details.
    I did view the ellie but you advised me to go for lcd.
     
  12. James McHugh

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    Pike, Pike, Pike What a short memory you have. As a new company at the time we belived we had done everything in our power to help you, offering you a new and better projector which you declined. Your wife then asked us for a particular brand new model that you had seen in some high street shop and priced at 2.5 times the cost of what you had spent with us. It was so unbeliveable, and your wifes threats of court and newspapers had become so harassing, we decided also to let it go to court. At this stage we knew what you were up to. You ended up recieveing £600 pounds more than what you had spent to begin with inclusive of your trade in, which incidently broke down shortly after the part exchange. This could of closed us down as we were just starting out. I realized after all the evidence we presented to the court that we the retailer had no protection at all. You nearly closed us down then, but i make this promise, you will not slander us or the projector on this site without doing it through a court room and this time I WILL BE PRESENT ! Retailers beware!!!!!
     
  13. Guest

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    People have the right to express there opinions and experiences on this forum and not to be THREATENED as this forum would not be here.
     
  14. James McHugh

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    Pike when you come on this forum making sweeping statements like "I would be very careful with Screens Uk" and " forget the Ellie they are crap go for something like a Barco they are built to last" Then i think you should expect some kind of responce from us. All i have done is set the record straight and Remember there are hundreds of Ellie owners out there that acording to you don't know the difference and are sitting down watching "CRAP" pictures. I think that is an insult to anyone who own's an Ellie PJ. This is the last responce Pike you will get from us as your responce was non informative and your intentions were not to help, but have a somewhat twisted/alternative motive.

    TO SET THE RECORD STRAIGHT

    1. We believed that offering Pike a brand new projector for a second hand, out of warranty projector was a more than honrable offer, we were wronge and paid the price.

    2.RCF do not make CRT projectors for the public anymore. They are a very succsefull company in europe making Audio equipment. The chasis of the XS3000HT is based very losely on that of earlier RCF projector, but the components are somewhat very different, just like a Barco 701 chasis and a Cine 7 chasis.

    3. XS2000HT is a non Barco product built in the same factory in India,but is of Italian design.

    I hope this clears up any confusion that Pike might of made
     
  15. ian_guinan

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    Maybe it's just me but this exchange doesn't exactly have me reaching for the chequebook to buy an Ellie.....
     
  16. Smurfin

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    *cracks open a beer*

    *sits comfortably*

    *waits for the show to continue*

    ;)
     
  17. Matinee

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    Jim,

    a bit of advice - stop digging, think/spellcheck before you post and please learn the difference between slander and libel. You're not doing yourself any favours from what I can see.

    PK (and no, I'm not a lawyer)
     
  18. cessquill

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    erm... I like my Ellie...
     
  19. mjwhitehouse

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    Haven't posted for a while but felt I needed to add my 3p worth. I have an Ellie 2000, I have had nothing but excellent service from Screens UK. I had a minor problem with a 2 cm blue/grey line appearing in the middle of the screen and they swapped it for a new one within a week. I have no axe to grind and I never recommend a projector to anyone. I have been extremely happy with the Ellie and believe it gives an excellent picture for the money. We are not all rich. However you must look at as many projectors as you can before deciding including the Ellie which deserves a viewing as well as some 2nd hand Barcos etc. Then you decide for yourself. We viewed it in Sutton Coalfield and the wife was sold. The kids have watched it none stop. Everyone who has seen our cinema has thought it was great and it did get a good review in the HC Magazine. My experience of Screens UK has been an entirely pleasant one and I would recommend the people even though I won't recommend the projector. It is too personal a thing for you to take someone elses' advice and frankly too much money. Sorry to harp on.
     
  20. neilc

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    Thanks to everyone who has offered advice. It's nice to see that Screens UK do have some good reports; they have been very helpful up to now and I still haven't managed to get round to organising a demo (my fault!!).

    I've read all of your comments and done further research and now need to organise a few demos. Hopefully I'll be able to report back in a month or so to let you guys know what I've decided on.

    Once again, thanks guys for you comments, recommendations and info.

    Neil.
     
  21. TooManyHobbies

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    Being a newbie thought this sounded an interesting topic as I,m looking to purchase a secondhand CRT unit. What I found was most dissapointing and and wonder how many people have been put off joining the forum because of the pair you. You are both entitled to an opinion but this is not the place to hold the battle. Very disapointed this was allowed to go off! :(
     
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