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Help - DVI Importance ????

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by tbrar, Jun 22, 2003.

  1. tbrar

    tbrar
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    I have narrowed down my choice of plasma to the Panny 42PHD5 and the Pio PDP-433MXE.

    I realise that the Panny 6 series are coming out soon with optional HDCP DVI boards, but the cash I have has to be spent soon - well before availability in the UK (apparently US lauch in two weeks away).

    With this in mind I know that the Pio has modular video board which supports HDCP encrypted DVI. Along with this is the third party development being done on boards such as Key Digital, Auroura etc.

    The Panny on the other hand with better blacks. I believe slighty better PQ, has an optional DVI board, but apparently this does not support HDCP encryption, more over is never going to (apparently). Additionally I have heard that the board has all sorts of probelms actually functioning correctly.

    I really want some opinions as to how important this feature is in the UK, with our lack of HDTV, and will its absence really limit the future use of the display?:confused: :confused:
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    That's a hard question as no-one has a crystal ball around here that I know of.

    Having said that the future is digital. DVD players are coming out with DVI picture outputs. Next will be players with a thing called HDMI output. This is basically a different connection that will constitute DVI picture and hi-res digital sound, both with copy protection. I suspect it'll be a few years before there are STB's with DVI outputs but you never know.

    DVI was invented to reduce costs in display's and PC graphics boards. If there are no analogue dacs or drivers in a device it can cost less to prodcuce. There is a huge base of installed analogue equipment in the UK at this time though so to have DVI out and in on units is going to ADD to costs at present. Mass market manufacturers tend to like to CUT costs rather than add to them o that's why I don; tsee a SKY box with DVI on the immediate horizon.

    With DVI you are also reduced to the de-interlacing solution within the source equipment. DVI doesn't support interlaced 480i or 576i. So although you get some benefits they may be lost elsewhere.

    It's a toughy. I think you need to investigate difference DVI has over analogue RGB with a plasma so you can see the possible improvements that you may miss out on.

    Gordon
     
  3. tbrar

    tbrar
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    'With DVI you are also reduced to the de-interlacing solution within the source equipment. DVI doesn't support interlaced 480i or 576i. So although you get some benefits they may be lost elsewhere'


    Gordon, thanks for that.

    I just wanted to clarify the above statment. Does this mean that I would not be able to use an outboard scaler, or indeed my progressive scan DVD player and be dependant on the displays de-interlacing?

    Also when you say it doesnt support 480i or 576i, what does this mean?. Ie can I only feed it progressive signals, if so would I not have to use a deinterlcer prior to the display?

    Sorry about this I am quite confused,..... with life in general....:rolleyes:
     
  4. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Ah sorry I misread, so am I correct in stating that DVI would actually dictate the deinterlacing is done prior to reaching the display?. And that this would apply in particular to 480i and 576i outputs, which DVI does not support.
     
  5. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi tbrar,

    The DVI input on the standard PDA-5002 card supplied with the Pioneer MXE models will only accept 480p (NTSC progressive scan) and computer signals. As Gordon says, it won't accept standard interlaced signals like 480i and 576i (PAL). So it will accept an NTSC progressive scan signal from your DVD player. The upcoming HDMI standard *will* accept 480i and 576i. The new media box with the Pioneer 434HDE out in August will have HDMI and Firewire inputs. By the way, I've just ordered a 433MXE with the PDA-5002 card as I've given up waiting for the constantly delayed KD card - wasting too much possible plasma viewing time! I'll make an upgrade decision when the new Aurora card is out in Nov/Dec time. Hope this helps.

    Steve

    P.S. Here's a good link to DVI and HDMI matters.

    http://www.sigmadesigns.com/support/DVI_HDMI.htm
     
  6. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Hello Dutch,

    Thanks. So with the current DVI input on the PD-5002 board the only signal that it will accept is a 480p, not 576p, or indeed 480i/580i.

    This being the case though the Pioneer is still best positioned (when compared to Panny TH-42PHD5) as it will have support for HDMI in the future. Is this correct?

    Also just to finalise, the 433MXE will accept any and all of the above signals via component input on PD-5002. Is that correct?

    Steve did you manage to compare the two that I am prior to purchasing the Pioneer?. The more I think about it, the more sense it makes to go Pioneer, but their is always the niggle regarding the percieved PQ on the Panny. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
     
  7. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi tbrar,

    Yes, the PDA-5002 will only take 480p (not by design, just luck) and computer signals. The card that will have HDMI is the new one from Aurora - check out the current thread in the plasma section of www.avsforum.com for more info on it. The 433MXE will take 480i/p and 576i/p through the panel's RGBHV or VGA connectors when set up as such in the plasma menus - the card doesn't have a component input. Unfortunately I didn't get to see a 42PHD as it's not really a consumer screen - come to think of it, neither is the MXE! - so I can't comment on it's abilities. I don't recall there being any 42PHD owners on this forum. Hope this helps.

    Steve
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The MXE will also accept other resolutions via DVI, As will most devices. The issue tends to be with 576P (de-interlaced PAL source material). It was a PC style interface and that's not a very PC signal. I am sure that this will change just as more products now support analogue 576P that didn't a year and a half ago.

    I have used 768P 60Hz signal to an MXE from a suitably equipped scaler.

    Gordon
     
  9. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Dutch,

    Thank you very much.
     
  10. tbrar

    tbrar
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    Gordon,

    Excellent, thanks. The scaler you mention, is that by any chance the Lumagen variant?

    I think to be fair, the Pioneer is probably the way to go. In your honest opinion Gordon what do you think between the two. I want to make my mind up now, place the order and put it to bed. TBH the whole things a bit much!!!!
     
  11. symanski

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    One of my customers in Glasgow has a Fujitsu screen with DVI and a Tag processor. Works fine for R1 (USA) material, but he get a black and white image for R2 (PAL) sources. Because DVI is a computer interface, they'd (Fujitsu) never seen progressive PAL images. I'm told by Fujitsu that future screens will be compatible.

    That said, you've also got to look at what equipment outputs in DVI. And right now, that's not much. Yes, DVI will be come a standard in the future, but by then you might also want to take advantage of better display technology too.

    All the best,

    Dr John Sim.
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Lumagen do not do DVI in or outputting scalers. It was the KeyDigital HD-Leeza on which the plug in board will be based.

    You need to make your own mind up by viewing the devices you wish. If you can put up with the poor black level of Pioneers then they an be great when fed a suitably great source.

    Gordon
     
  13. sapper

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    This is becoming more and more confusing every day...

    So, withmy current DVI input on this plasma, the only way to really utilise the benificts is to use a Home Media box with a quality DVI outout/videocard, qualiy soundcard and associated software?

    If I was to purchase a DVD player with DVI output, I could only use it to display NTSC de-interlaced pictures, and not Pal. To use Pal, I would have to wait for a new card for the Pio to be released with PAL facility?

    How much would that cost? are we talking several hundreds of pounds or a thousand?

    Im begining to regret taking up this hobby! :suicide: :suicide:

    Perhasp I should sell all and buy a cheap n nasty TV and all in one system! :thumbsdow


    Adrian
     
  14. Dutch

    Dutch
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    Hi sapper,

    The current Aurora A303-HDCP card is available in the US for approx $450 - of course you would need to add on import duty and VAT if you choose to import one to the UK. This card is very similar to the PDA-5002 except for the HDCP-enabled DVI input. Aurora are in the process of developing a new card which will feature an HDCP-enabled DVI-I, 2 HDMI, and an S-video/composite input. It should be under $1000 and is out in Nov/Dec. You're right, it's a very expensive business this hobby of ours! :suicide:

    Steve
     
  15. philipb

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    If you can put up with the hassle of setting up a HCPC, then I have found that DVDs played from the PC using Theatertek plus ffdshow plus sonic DVD player through the DVI out on a Radeon card produces superb PQ - much better than any set top player I've ever seen.

    Gordon - what progress on your ambient lighting project to help the black levels?
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The Bias light guys are just finishing the 240volt d65k project. I'll post on the forum when its done!

    Gordon
     
  17. philipb

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    Thanks
     
  18. symanski

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    I heard there was a bit of confusion about what I said about DVI inputs on plasma screens and thought I should just clarify.

    There's nothing wrong with the DVI inputs that are on current plasma screens. DVI is intended to allow a computer to talk directly to the screen. With American material, this overlaps with a standard monitor mode, but UK material doesn't. It is because such resolutions are not used in the PC world that these screens can't display progressive PAL.

    I know that plasma screen manufacturers are adapting to these new modes and future screens will be compatible.

    If DVI is used as intended, that is for use with a PC, there will be no problems.

    All the best,

    Dr John Sim.
     

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