Help Denon x1700h has stressed me out big time

jmacgrillen

Standard Member
I will take a picture of set up Gibbsy when the light is better in my living room .
I'm still tinkering with the sound as i am unhappy with the tinny (did move speaker 25mm over shelf) hollow speech even after following the above tips . So downloading the instuctions i discover you can manually EQ .To do this i had to disable the MultiEQ XT option which then allows manual eq of the centre speaker . Is this a bad move ? will i lose other sounds/effects done during initial setup . I have now got to a point where im happy with the centre speaker but not sure of other problems this may cause with the multiEQ.
I think you're going to have to do a lot of juggling if you're attempting to do what Audyssey does manually. I must admit when I had the Denon I ran it at high volumes, until I played with some of the toys.
You can try these after calibration.
  • I found that running Restorer at the medium setting, put back a lot of what was missing, allowing me to turn the volume right down.
  • Under Surround Parameter I ran Dialog Control at +2. That boosted the centre speaker and made speech considerably clearer.
  • If you're really desperate, after calibration (not before) turn on Dynamic EQ and set Reference Level Offset to 5 or 10db.
 

woodski13

Standard Member
Is polarity correct on all speakers? My brother in laws set up had two of the speakers reversed red/black, so sounded flat.
Yep these are correct double checked today
I think you're going to have to do a lot of juggling if you're attempting to do what Audyssey does manually. I must admit when I had the Denon I ran it at high volumes, until I played with some of the toys.
You can try these after calibration.
  • I found that running Restorer at the medium setting, put back a lot of what was missing, allowing me to turn the volume right down.
  • Under Surround Parameter I ran Dialog Control at +2. That boosted the centre speaker and made speech considerably clearer.
  • If you're really desperate, after calibration (not before) turn on Dynamic EQ and set Reference Level Offset to 5 or 10db.
thats my worry when i start trying to manual eq, to much to try and do and not as straight forward trying to do just the centre . i will play about with some of the things you suggested . I did recalibrate the av again after moving things around a little but still the centre giving the problem . It might sound right to others but i will carry on till i crack it . Watched more youtube videos about audyssey and maybe the app might be worth a look at but with my very limited knowledge this could confuse even more .
ps..... found the restorer setting but not highlighted so will need to find what needs to be changed to bring this option available .
Sorry to keep bumping this thread up
 

jmacgrillen

Standard Member
Yep these are correct double checked today

thats my worry when i start trying to manual eq, to much to try and do and not as straight forward trying to do just the centre . i will play about with some of the things you suggested . I did recalibrate the av again after moving things around a little but still the centre giving the problem . It might sound right to others but i will carry on till i crack it . Watched more youtube videos about audyssey and maybe the app might be worth a look at but with my very limited knowledge this could confuse even more .
ps..... found the restorer setting but not highlighted so will need to find what needs to be changed to bring this option available .
Sorry to keep bumping this thread up
Pretty sure most people on these forums have been where you are now, so don't worry about bumping. Every manufacturer does it differently, so there's always a learning curve. It can be disheartening at the start but keep plugging away at it. The rewards when it does start working make it all worthwhile.
 

woodski13

Standard Member
Tinny sound. This could be down to your speaker positioning and a photograph of your speakers in their current position would be most helpful. If you have the centre on a shelf then make sure it is sitting proud of the shelf edge by around 25mm.
After a lot of messing and recalibrating im almost there and much happier with the avr but the centre still not right on some films so i think this might come down to the way i hear it or maybe the volume i listen at sometimes .
I did say i would post a picture of the speaker set up . I am not sure if the rears should be pointing at mlp as can be seen in the picture or pointing straight forward . I think they are correct as if they pointed forward i would lose sounds/effects .The set up is the best i coud do due to room size etc and pleasing the wife . Any opinions welcome
 

Attachments

  • 20220109_110313.jpg
    20220109_110313.jpg
    222.5 KB · Views: 146
  • 20220109_110032.jpg
    20220109_110032.jpg
    224.8 KB · Views: 133
  • 20220109_110048.jpg
    20220109_110048.jpg
    205.9 KB · Views: 136

gibbsy

Moderator
After a lot of messing and recalibrating im almost there and much happier with the avr but the centre still not right on some films so i think this might come down to the way i hear it or maybe the volume i listen at sometimes .
I did say i would post a picture of the speaker set up . I am not sure if the rears should be pointing at mlp as can be seen in the picture or pointing straight forward . I think they are correct as if they pointed forward i would lose sounds/effects .The set up is the best i coud do due to room size etc and pleasing the wife . Any opinions welcome
Centre positioning is poor. Too low and in a confined space. On panning you may notice the drop across the front sound stage you may notice that if the speaker is being isolated. You could try a rug on the floor in front of the cabinet as well.
 

woodski13

Standard Member
Im going to try and angle the centre speaker up a little and its already very slightly hanging out of the shelf area its in . The rug is usually nearer to the cabinet but i was trying the sub on the other of the unit and forgot to move rug back .
 

Jester1066

Well-known Member
Im going to try and angle the centre speaker up a little and its already very slightly hanging out of the shelf area its in . The rug is usually nearer to the cabinet but i was trying the sub on the other of the unit and forgot to move rug back .
You could get a TV mount such as this:

This would raise the TV sufficiently to enable the centre speaker to be placed on top of the cabinet.
 

Pulse1

Well-known Member
After a lot of messing and recalibrating im almost there and much happier with the avr but the centre still not right on some films so i think this might come down to the way i hear it or maybe the volume i listen at sometimes .
I did say i would post a picture of the speaker set up . I am not sure if the rears should be pointing at mlp as can be seen in the picture or pointing straight forward . I think they are correct as if they pointed forward i would lose sounds/effects .The set up is the best i coud do due to room size etc and pleasing the wife . Any opinions welcome
Ah now i see your problem with the centre speaker, gibbsy has already pointed out to you with the fact the centre and front left/right speakers are at different heights. It wouldn't matter what speakers you had in these positions you'll never correct the front soundstage anyway. So back to basics is where i'm going to advise you here. Given the fact that to get the left/right/centre soundstage correct you have to have the three speakers identical and at the exact same height as your ears are while seated. That's the first mistake that most people make so don't take this personally. Then there's the fact that you can't do that anyway due to your room conditions and you have a tv. But you have a few options to improve what you have already, If you want speakers get them all at the same height below your tv and preferably the 3 front speakers the exact same model. Another option would be get a 3 channel passive soundbar as that way you can keep your Denon AVR-X1700H and have the passive soundbar under your tv and you wouldn't need to raise your tv up as much as you would with seperate speakers. Also your wife would be much happier with a passive soundbar under the tv than what you have now also so a big win for you also there. You now have to decide on what works best for you and if you are prepared to change your front soundstage to improve it? But you can't fix what you have now anyway due to the difference in the height of your front left/centre/right speakers. With regards to your surround speakers there's not much you can do there really to improve so don't bother to much about that. Consentrate on what you want to do with the front soundstage first. Let us know your thoughs on this and i'm sure there will be plenty of people on here to help you whatever you decide to do even if you want to keep your current speakers. Bottom line it's what works for you and your wife that matters and nobody else, but just thought i would give you my personal opinion on it anyway.
 

basserphil

Active Member
had my denon 4300 amp for 4 years now, atmos has always been underwhelming, at xmas i got the denon phone app as i was stuck inside with covid, best £20 i have spent, all my speakers now sing in unison and surround sound is now what i always imagined it would be, takes a few minutes to get your head around the app.....but boy what a difference, denon should be giving this app out for free.
 

woodski13

Standard Member
Ah now i see your problem with the centre speaker, gibbsy has already pointed out to you with the fact the centre and front left/right speakers are at different heights. It wouldn't matter what speakers you had in these positions you'll never correct the front soundstage anyway. So back to basics.
Great reply and very informative . Im kind of stuck with the set up i have at the moment if i want to keep the peace. I did want to have the 2 fronts lower but was read the riot act about the lamp had to stay in the corner as thats where she wants it. we had to keep each other happy . I am little disheartened by not seeking better advice off you guys and i just jumped in but live and learn . I can't rasie the telly to high as she already moans its blocking to much daylight and the soundbar does sound a possibilty as that wouldnt be going to high but funds are not in my favour at the moment .Fortunately she thinks this has only cost me a few hundred so far, dread the day she googles the av or sub . I could never have a set up like alot of you have as she thinks as long as emmerdale sounds ok thats all that matters
Like i said earlier i am almost there and for the sake of it i will have to keep things as they are as theres no simple fix but maybe some minor tweeks or the lamp might even have an accident !
 

woodski13

Standard Member
had my denon 4300 amp for 4 years now, atmos has always been underwhelming, at xmas i got the denon phone app as i was stuck inside with covid, best £20 i have spent, all my speakers now sing in unison and surround sound is now what i always imagined it would be, takes a few minutes to get your head around the app.....but boy what a difference, denon should be giving this app out for free.
Its on the list but probably wont be able to get my head around it
 

jmacgrillen

Standard Member
Great reply and very informative . Im kind of stuck with the set up i have at the moment if i want to keep the peace. I did want to have the 2 fronts lower but was read the riot act about the lamp had to stay in the corner as thats where she wants it. we had to keep each other happy . I am little disheartened by not seeking better advice off you guys and i just jumped in but live and learn . I can't rasie the telly to high as she already moans its blocking to much daylight and the soundbar does sound a possibilty as that wouldnt be going to high but funds are not in my favour at the moment .Fortunately she thinks this has only cost me a few hundred so far, dread the day she googles the av or sub . I could never have a set up like alot of you have as she thinks as long as emmerdale sounds ok thats all that matters
Like i said earlier i am almost there and for the sake of it i will have to keep things as they are as theres no simple fix but maybe some minor tweeks or the lamp might even have an accident !
I can empathise with this 110%. Your setup is almost identical to how mine was for the same reason. I did raise the TV and yes it did block the light. On the plus side when it came to upgrade time I was able to spin the setup 90 degrees with the TV above the fireplace. That helped as I have wall mounted speakers so I could get the front stage all at the same level.

You said the centre channel has issues with some films. These aren't Chris Nolan movies are they? Does the centre sound OK most of the time?
 

woodski13

Standard Member
I can empathise with this 110%..That helped as I have wall mounted speakers so I could get the front stage all at the same level.

You said the centre channel has issues with some films. These aren't Chris Nolan movies are they? Does the centre sound OK most of the time?
I will be altering the room but probs not for 12 months .When you got the speakers level did it make just a difference or a massive difference ?
theres no specific directors films that sound worst, though i did put dunkirk (nolan) on and that did have the hollow/tinny centre . For me its like the mid range needs lowering slightly but that could be the wrong way of describing it ,could the app make this possible to change ? . I did also think maybe i have the volume cranked (3/4 volume) up to much unnecessarily which highlights the centre more but surely it should turned up . I have a volume range of 0-99 and at 58 its ok but at around 70 + it sounds worst (centre) but not on all movies .
 

jmacgrillen

Standard Member
I will be altering the room but probs not for 12 months .When you got the speakers level did it make just a difference or a massive difference ?
theres no specific directors films that sound worst, though i did put dunkirk (nolan) on and that did have the hollow/tinny centre . For me its like the mid range needs lowering slightly but that could be the wrong way of describing it ,could the app make this possible to change ? . I did also think maybe i have the volume cranked (3/4 volume) up to much unnecessarily which highlights the centre more but surely it should turned up . I have a volume range of 0-99 and at 58 its ok but at around 70 + it sounds worst (centre) but not on all movies .
Hmm. In my case I made a complete balls up at the start. You're in a better place. The left and right were far too high up compared to the centre (other half wanted them out of the way). Once I lowered them to be closer to the same height as the centre, it made a noticeable improvement to the way sound moved on the front stage. My problem was a little different. The centre speaker was always stronger than the left and right, so I was the polar opposite. It wasn't tinny though, just stronger than the left and right. I was able to dial it back, so it blended in a little better, but it wasn't until I'd spun the room around 90 degrees that I could fix the issue. I swapped the centre for another wall mounted speaker and with all 3 now arranged closer the front stage is much improved (I would have liked the left and right lower, but it's not just me deciding so, you can't have everything).

That said I ran it with the telly at the window for over a year. Not perfect, but still acceptable.
 

Attachments

  • IMG_2710.JPG
    IMG_2710.JPG
    69.7 KB · Views: 94
  • IMG_3588.jpg
    IMG_3588.jpg
    109.7 KB · Views: 105

Jay53

Well-known Member
Hmm, whilst it's preferable to have the speakers all at the same height, look at the distance of the front stage to the mlp? Id guess its getting on for 4m away and double the width the speakers are apart and surely by that point the height really isn't going to make a dramatic difference to front staging unless the speakers are very directional? It explains why you can hear the rear speakers as they need to be further away from you :( I would also say you are too far from a TV of that size for 4k but I digress :)

For reference all three of my speakers are identical and on the same level. I still have to have dialog enhancer on low rather than off :)
 
Last edited:

The latest video from AVForums

Panasonic LZ2000, LZ1500 & LZ980 Hands-on Launch Event | No QD-OLED for 2022, new 77-inch for LZ2000
Subscribe to our YouTube channel

Full fat HDMI teeshirts

Support AVForums with Patreon

Top Bottom