Help choosing a pair of subs - Monolith's or XTZ's

Superslim007

Novice Member
I am now down to the final 2 options for my sub choice.
I am building a dedicated theater 5.2m x 3.6m (17'x12') and want to put in a pair of subs.
I can get a pair of 12" Monoliths for £1,550.00 or a pair of XTZ's for just over £1,200.00 so about 20% cheaper than the Mono's and the XTZ's have the Icepower amp's and are a bit more punchy.
Now in this size room I think either are more than capable.
So for the cost is it worth spending £350.00 more on the THX but less powerful mono's
I have 0 experience with either of these subs so could do with anyone's help

Thanks
 

MI55ION

Distinguished Member
Whilst they might be capable interms of output, neither offer the extension of the 15" Monolith. If budget is tight go with a single 15" and add another later if you need more output or better response that dual subs can potentially offer.
 

Superslim007

Novice Member
For less than the price of the one 15" mono I can get 2 x 12.17 XTZ's and for my room size I think the 15" may be to much
 

MI55ION

Distinguished Member
There are people here who have 2+ 15" and above subs in rooms sometimes smaller than yours.

No such thing as too much as you can always lower the sub volume. There is a hard limit however as to how much extension you can get from a pair of smaller subs.
 

Superslim007

Novice Member
So it has been suggested that 1 x 15" Monolith may be the way forward but in a room that size (1500 square feet) it may be to much? I have an existing BK P12 300 SB which I would sell If I bought the 2 x12" XTZ's but if I bought 1 x 15" mono I could keep it in a supporting role - does any one else have a view on that ?
 

Conrad

Moderator
My room is half your size and I have six 15" drivers in it. If you have a half decent EQ system like Audyssey, Dirac, Arc, etc then you should be fine. And as @MI55ION says, multiple 12" subs will only get as low as one 12" sub, they'll just do it louder with less distortion. A 15" sub will go lower, and probably with a similar level of distortion than the two 12s.
 

Superslim007

Novice Member
My room is half your size and I have six 15" drivers in it. If you have a half decent EQ system like Audyssey, Dirac, Arc, etc then you should be fine. And as @MI55ION says, multiple 12" subs will only get as low as one 12" sub, they'll just do it louder with less distortion. A 15" sub will go lower, and probably with a similar level of distortion than the two 12s.
wow forgive me for saying but that's crazy, where do the seats go 😆
The XTZ can arguably go down to 19 Hz which is below most human audible levels so so the extra 4-5 Hz from the 15" would not be heard but felt, the question is does that extra drop of 4- Hz make that much difference
 

Conrad

Moderator
It’s cozy, that’s for sure. It’s a dedicated room just for me and my wife so we only need a two seater sofa.

If you can do it at the necessary output level then yes, the extension is great, but it’s a personal call. Some people feel that below 10Hz is unneeded, some say 20Hz is enough.

I’m very much of the mind that it’s better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it, but I appreciate that’s not a mindset shared by all.

Dual 12s will be a great solution, I’m just making sure you’re aware and happy with the limitations of that solution, which ot sounds like you are.
 

Superslim007

Novice Member
I would have 10 x 18" subs if
A. I could afford it.
B. The room was large enough
C. The wife would let me

The problem I have is not being able to try them for myself to gauge the difference
 

MI55ION

Distinguished Member
wow forgive me for saying but that's crazy, where do the seats go 😆
The XTZ can arguably go down to 19 Hz which is below most human audible levels so so the extra 4-5 Hz from the 15" would not be heard but felt, the question is does that extra drop of 4- Hz make that much difference

With room gain the 15" should comfortably go down to single digits. As to whether it makes a difference, for most who have had it or tried it's a life altering experience and they are hooked. For others, especially those who don't have subs capable in that department, I hear some reasoning as to why it isn't necessary. Whatever floats your boat really.
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
12" Monoliths aren´t slouches and without doubt them over XTZ if that is max size you can go!

Monoprice 12 THX in-room response from review:

full-d-1516809111-png.18226

Post-calibration in-room measurements: Purple = Sealed, Blue = Two Ports, Green = One Port



Monoprice 15THX in-room response vs. SVS PB16U (Youthman):

monoprice15.png
 

Gasp3621

Distinguished Member
Erin did full measurements for Monoprices and this thread shows the sizes of each:

Compared to SVS PB2000 Pro. You get the Monoprices 450£ cheaper than dual SVS so quite a no brainer!

index.php


index.php
 

Superslim007

Novice Member
I hate you all, I had finally settled on 2 x 12.17 XTZ's
now I want a Monolith 15" THX (well 2 but that's another matter)

Gee thanks guys :facepalm:
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
I hate you all, I had finally settled on 2 x 12.17 XTZ's
now I want a Monolith 15" THX (well 2 but that's another matter)

Gee thanks guys :facepalm:
That's what these guys do to all of us when we're after a sub or 2! 😄

But it's just to make sure that you get the best subs for your budget, rather than having to upgrade again later, as I found out the hard way by not listening to these guys initially!😅
 

Superslim007

Novice Member
That's what these guys do to all of us when we're after a sub or 2! 😄

But it's just to make sure that you get the best subs for your budget, rather than having to upgrade again later, as I found out the hard way by not listening to these guys initially!😅
I hear ya :clap:
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
I hear ya :clap:
I ended up with dual XTZ 12.17 Edge's, it was a longer journey than it should have been though, BK Gemini II - BK XLS200 - Dual BK XXLS400 and now the dual XTZ's.
I could have skipped the Gem and XLS200 if I had listened to these guys!😅

The XTZ's do sound very good in my 4.1m x 4m room, good slam and plenty of rumble, but I haven't heard any other subs with 12" or 15" drivers to compare them to though.
I do keep looking at the Mono 12"/15", PSA and Arendal subs! But were in a flat, so these XTZ's are more than enough for the neighbours above, but luckily they are good as gold when I want to watch a movie at high volume!

I would echo what the guys said, and get the biggest/best you can afford, you can always turn them down a bit if it's getting too much.
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
Only a couple of square meters smaller than my room but I am lucky that its a detached house so no neighbors to worry about
I'd be looking at the big subs if I was in a detached house!! I think I have sub upgraditis though, but I'm trying to be sensible!
I'm always happy with my XTZ's when the bass ramps up in a movie to be fair, I have them opposite corners and the rear one is right next to the sofa and gives a nice bit of tactile bass! But when I keep reading about lots of other subs that can do a better job, I do get that itch to change them, but then I have to remind myself that we're in a flat!

I'd honestly be looking at the Mono 12"/15", and more likely the 15", if I as in your position, with a dedicated room, detached house etc. I'm just going by numbers and reviews though and haven't heard them.
 

Superslim007

Novice Member
I'd be looking at the big subs if I was in a detached house!! I think I have sub upgraditis though, but I'm trying to be sensible!
I'm always happy with my XTZ's when the bass ramps up in a movie to be fair, I have them opposite corners and the rear one is right next to the sofa and gives a nice bit of tactile bass! But when I keep reading about lots of other subs that can do a better job, I do get that itch to change them, but then I have to remind myself that we're in a flat!

I'd honestly be looking at the Mono 12"/15", and more likely the 15", if I as in your position, with a dedicated room, detached house etc. I'm just going by numbers and reviews though and haven't heard them.
Thanks for your input,that's now how I'm beginning to lean, I am always in the pursuit of better but the problem with this "Hobby" is you can go from £100's to £100,000's is less than a heartbeat, I started of 15 years ago with a tiny little LG surround sound and I must easily be into £15k - £20k now before I move and start the dedicated theater. You have to at some point be rational and say enough is enough before the wife starts packing. I do think I would be better getting the 15" mono and maybe another when the dust settles
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
Thanks for your input,that's now how I'm beginning to lean, I am always in the pursuit of better but the problem with this "Hobby" is you can go from £100's to £100,000's is less than a heartbeat, I started of 15 years ago with a tiny little LG surround sound and I must easily be into £15k - £20k now before I move and start the dedicated theater. You have to at some point be rational and say enough is enough before the wife starts packing. I do think I would be better getting the 15" mono and maybe another when the dust settles
Same here, started with a Panasonic home theatre in a box thingy, but once you make that first step into proper home theatre stuff, then you're heading down that bottomless rabbit hole! 😅

I think going for the 15" makes sense, you won't be thinking "what if" all the time, like you might with either of the 12" you're looking at. I was honestly thinking the little XLS200 might be the most I could get away with in the flat and was a little scared of getting 12" subs, but as soon as I got them and dialled them in, I never looked back.
It's the same advice again, but you can always turn down a big powerful sub if needed, but there's nothing you can do if you have smaller less potent subs that hit their limit and you want more bass! That's the advice I ignored when I first bought subs, and I wasted time and a few quid as well! 😅
 

MI55ION

Distinguished Member
@WozzaB Not sure if you are aware, tactile transducers would be a perfect fit in apartment setups such as yours.

Have a look here for HoverBOSS or Earthquake Bass Transducers, they would seamlessly augment your subs and take your experience to another level.
 

WozzaB

Well-known Member
@WozzaB Not sure if you are aware, tactile transducers would be a perfect fit in apartment setups such as yours.

Have a look here for HoverBOSS or Earthquake Bass Transducers, they would seamlessly augment your subs and take your experience to another level.
I did have a look at those setups before, I wouldn't get away with flipping the sofa and adding anything though! But having said that..... The mrs did ask me refill a couple of the seats on the sofa and that requires flipping it over, hmmmmmmm🤔
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
@Superslim007 As someone that's recently upgraded to a dual subwoofer set-up, I've been totally overwhelmed by just how much better two subs sound than just one in my 5.7m x 5.4m room. I would therefore suggest that you only go the Mono THX 15" route if you are 100% certain that you will get a second one in the near future.

I also wouldn't prioritise infrasonic (i.e. <20%) extension over going dual as AFAIK there's virtually no movie material plays that deep. It's my understanding that most movies don't even have any content under 30Hz, possibly due to the fact that the official Dolby Atmos subwoofer specification for commercial cinemas is only a flat (+/-3dB) response of 31.5Hz-120Hz. That said, headroom (in all its forms) is usually a good thing so to play 30Hz cleanly and comfortably it's probably advantageous to have a sub that can play at least half an octave lower i.e. 20Hz.
 

Superslim007

Novice Member
That makes a lot of sense - I did look into how low a mainstream cinema goes and you are right in that most content only goes down to around 30 Hz and due to the auditorium space it is very difficult to go below 20 Hz at volume without a lot of very large subs.
The XTZ 12.17 Edge has a 700 RMS pushing the 12" driver so no lack of power and a range or 19 Hz - 180 Hz and in room they would likely be a little lower. On paper the 12.17 is virtually identical to the 1x12 cinema in fact the 12.17 goes a little higher so not sure why you woud pay the extra for the cinema. They have also lost their THX cert but after a chat with them they can meet the THX cert but they won't pay for it as it just needlessly bumps up the cost.
"To be used as the THX certified 1X12 set the gain dial to 9 o'clock to get the same level as REF on 1X12"
 

Mr Wolf

Well-known Member
Is there any CEA2010 test data available for the 12.17 Edge that shows its measured SPL output at different frequencies?

I ask this because you cannot conclude that just because it’s a 700W 12” sub that it would have more output than say a 500W Mono 12” THX sub because I expect that in practice it may well have less. Specs across different sub brands don’t usually seem to correlate well with performance. For example, REW compression testing has shown me that the 500W 12” sealed SVS SB-2000 in my living room has 3-5dB more in-room SPL output between 30Hz and 80Hz than my old Velodyne 750W 15” ported sub. When looking at the subs with their grills removed it’s clear that the SB-2000’s driver has far more excursion.
 

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