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Help - Asking too much of a yamaha 750 and MS premiere?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by sakhalinsk, Mar 31, 2005.

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  1. sakhalinsk

    sakhalinsk
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    Help needed.

    After reading around quite a few internet resources I purchased my first surround sound system at the weekend – woohoo! The system consists of a Yamaha DSP750 amp and the Mordaunt Short Premiere (not plus) speaker system. Have to say – it sounded awesome playing the Lord of the Rings.

    However, all is not well and I have a bit of a problem. My main listening pattern is ~60% music/40% movies & I was hoping that this system would be roughly equal in quality to my (not great) audio system. But it’s not. Not even close. In fact, musically, it sounds a bit shoddy. I guess that it might be due to the run-in period, but I’ve had the speakers running for about 48 hours with some, but not significant improvement. I’m sure it will get better, but I don’t think it will be good enough. The apparent lack of mid-range just degrades the musical experience too much.

    So I don’t know what to do. I have the system on a 2 week return basis. Should I:
    a) Keep the system, but purchase some larger front speakers for adding oomph to the music (my budget would be limited to £150 max) and use the satellites as a 6.1. What would be good front speakers for this set up?
    b) Return the speaker system and save up for a better one in the longer term, holding onto the Amp for now.
    c) Face the music and admit that the Yamaha 750 and a reasonably priced speaker set will never live up to a semi decent audio set-up. Give in, drop the surround sound and go buy a mountain bike instead.

    I’d really appreciate any input anyone has. I’d like this system to work. I can throw a bit more money at it. But am I just asking too much? It’s too much money to be solely used for DVDs.

    Can anyone help? :lease:

    Here’s some context:
    - My lounge is relatively large. High ceilings, and (fake) wooden flooring. (not my choice – it’s rented). It’s not huge though. Currently the satellite speakers are on a sturdy bench next to TV, on the TV, with the surrounds on stands just adjacent/behind the couch. The sub is opposite the couch.
    - My previous music system was a Cambridge CD6 and A3i amp. I have Gale stand speakers (can’t remember name – something Mk II), biwired, on decent stands. I didn’t think that this would be too much to live up to. But…
    - The music style that needs to be good is quite guitary/acousticy (Damien Rice, Jack Johnson) through to more rocky (stereophonics/Kaiser chiefs)…
     
  2. SBanga

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    The Yammy 750 is actually quite adept at music.
    The bad source is most likely to be your speakers. Satellites with a sub can never convey the music like a full range standmount or floorstander. You're most likely getting the "boom tizz" effect, where you have plenty of bass and treble but a massive hole in the midrange.
    For a good music sound, invest in a pair of decent floorstanders (Mordaunt Short MS906s to match your existing speakers maybe?) and activate the pure direct setting on the amp. If you're not happy, you'll have to invest much more into something like a Arcam AVR300.
    Good luck!
     
  3. sakhalinsk

    sakhalinsk
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    Thanks for the note. Interesting info.

    I've just checked out the MS906s on the HyperGlobalMegaNet, but to be honest, when considered with the price of the amp and premieres I've just purchased they are beyond my budget. If that's the step that I have to make then I'll probably have to return the whole lot. :(

    Does anyone out there have any adice on a slightly cheaper option perhaps? 904s? something else? £100 - £200. If not, then that's the way it goes, I suppose...

    Although I did see this thread today
    Yamaha DSPAX750 POOR SOUND
    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168185&page=1&pp=15&highlight=dsp750

    Will have to look into the ""Check the "Level" settings bit tomorrow.

    Thanks. Any help appreciated.
     
  4. chedmaster

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    i have some eltax liberty 5+ if you can find some they are fantastic value for money, better for music than movies imo, and they sound fantastic with my CA azur 540R amp, which is around the same price as your amp (in fact yours is slightly more). alternatively Gale 3040s (i think - two drivers and a tweeter?) are very good for movies, and strong at music as well, and much more elegant than the eltax's! the centre and rears that go with it are also awesome - so future upgrades are possible (i have them and have heard the floorstanders.)
     
  5. Ed Selley

    Ed Selley
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    The MS 904 would match with the premieres and be a big step forward musically. If you have stands kicking about, the 902 would probably get the job done better as well. The other course of action is to change the sub as the 308 gives away quite alot to the 309 and doesn't have the musical ability of the bigger sub. The RRP of a 308 compared to a 309 would mean an upgrade would be about £70.
     
  6. Llanowar

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    When i first got the 750 i was a little bit dissapointed with the sound too, a bit harsh and sometimes even flat. I've got the system on for around 4-5 hours a day, and now after 3 months (!) it's finally really opening up (or as some say you get used to the sound), now all other speakers sound way less to me :)

    I listen to music mostly in plII movie, as i find pure direct too bright. The second i come home i put a music cd on because it sounds soooo good. Check clearly if the volume of each speaker is adjusted correctly, that makes a big difference for me! Also get a good subwoofer, a good subwoofer makes everything sound about 10 times better!

    By the way, i love the remote, it's easy and the learning function is the best thing ever invented!
     
  7. mhuk05

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    It's too late now but given the music/ movie mix you should have gone for better speakers. I have 906 and 902 and I wouldn't want to listen to music through the 902's alone- let alone through your 302's. You could try on Ebay for 904 or 906's. Or take it all back and buy a bigger system (905c=£109; 906 = £299; 902 = £129; 309 = £229).
     
  8. GFS AV

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    I have the older Yamaha 640SE, and whilst the 750 is a step up, I reckond they will be similar sound-wise. I first went for the Premieres, but had the same problem, so I changed the fronts to 904s, which were far better, but not quite enough bass for me, so ended up with the 906! What an end result though - a huge improvement. In fact, I then changed the centre... actually, I ended up changing the full setup! But if you're happy with the movie sound, you only need change the fronts.

    You could perhaps change the centre at a later date. The 905c is also a dramatic improvement over the 304c. For now though, in your situation, I would just upgrade the fronts. If you can afford £200, you could buy the 906s for £260 ish, then sell your front 302s for about £60. You'd be surprised what they go for on eBay!

    I promise you wont look back. In my opinion, the combination of the Yamaha amp, and the 906s results in a very good sound, and those 906s thump like hell if you want them too :)
     
  9. sakhalinsk

    sakhalinsk
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    Thanks for all the feedback. Very useful.

    As a first step I'm trying to track down some 904s.. Hopefully this will work.
    Not sure what to do about the subwoofer. I picked it up quite cheap (whole premiere package for £250), so upgrading to a 309 might be a bit of a struggle along with the floorstanders.

    I might even trial a whole different speaker set if I can find a suitable shop. Perhaps Missions, who knows.

    I'll update to let everyone know what works best.
     
  10. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    You'll probably find the 904s to be a bit on the 'bright' side - I did. The 906 uses the same tweeter, but the extra mid-bass driver seems to even things out. If you're main concern is music, I would say definately the 906 if you can stretch. They give a much better midrange. They are definately worth the extra. You could leave the sub for now, as the 906 actually go quite low.
     
  11. reservoir51

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    If you're on a tight budget and want to simply upgrade the music capabilities of your current system, I think the Mission 73i floorstanding speakers go quite well with the Yamaha DSPAX750. Although I'm using Mission M53 now, I've tried it with the 73i and they sound quite reasonable for the price (Richer Sounds is selling it for £120 I think).

    reservoir51
     
  12. sakhalinsk

    sakhalinsk
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    Well, I ran the system in for a bit, and my conclusion is that the MS Premieres and DSP750 amp combination is just not musical. My old cheap cambridge system (d500 and A3i amp, with gale bookshelfs) sounds considerably better. This was a surprise.

    From the posts above (thanks) I checked out some floorstanders that would have really helped the situation, but you have to make quite a price jump to get a semi-decent musical sound. You still need a good high quality floor stander.

    So, my conclusion is that you either collect a bunch of second hand pieces, or save for a higher price-point system. With this in mind I, regretably, took the system back at the weekend. :( I could have kept the amp but there seemed to be no need whilst I'm saving for better speakers or tracking down second hand pieces - maybe I'll pick up a better deal further along the line.

    Thanks for your help. I'll now start listening to new systems and try to figure out what to aim for.

    Ta
     
  13. GFS AV

    GFS AV
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    I think you've underestimated the ability of the 750. As I said, even my older 640 is very competent with stereo, so the 750 should be at least as good as a budget stereo amp.

    We have explained that the 906 or something similar will dramatically improve the sound completely. I can only assume you're saving for a much higher-end system.
     
  14. Llanowar

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    I think it's just getting used to the sound, you can hear a lot more clearly what's really on a cd, it takes a while to get used to such a big leap forward (i went from a 150 euro all in one set to a set where only the receiver costed me 500 euros...) cause the 750 is probably the cheapest receiver that has everything a person could want (also with the future in the back of your head). Good luck anyway with finding something else...
     
  15. sakhalinsk

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    Hi there.

    Absolutely agree. Didn't mean to unintentionally "diss" the 750. :oops: It's a good, maybe great, amp, and I have no quibble with it. It's just that, as I can't afford the speakers to go with it for quite a while, I might just as well take it all back and see if I can pick up the amp cheaper in 6 months time... At the very least this gives me full flexibility.

    My current plan is just that, save a bit, pick up the 750 (or maybe its replacement) and a better set of speakers in a few months time. All I need to do now is find the right set of speakers. The MS 906s might end up being the right choice, but at the moment I'm stretched (bl**dy house prices mean I have to save, save, save for that too!) and can't afford to partner them with a surround sound set up, and don't want a decent amp simply gathering dust...

    So I've got a few months to try some different speakers and see how it goes... anyone have an opinion on different speaker options? I guess It seems like I'm looking like a £700 budget.

    Cheers!
     
  16. GFS AV

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    To be honest you're probably better of waiting till nearer the time - that way, you will know your exact budget, and no doubt there will be newer, perhaps better, models of the various equipment you need.
     

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