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HELP AE700 How bad is bad vertical banding?

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by bad robot, Jan 7, 2005.

  1. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Edit : Pics Added to Illustrate, see below...

    Ive had the AE 700 for approx 6 weeks now but its seen limited action approx 80hrs, so far mostly its used for consoles due to temp room setup.

    Please understand Im aware the VB thing has been done to death but I dont think any thread has covered it fully. Can we use this thread to create pictures guide to fully understand and best resolve the matter?

    Personally I see what I think is VB on mine but Id like to know what is an acceptable level as this is my first projector and its now becoming more annoying perhaps no worse but now Im contstantly looking for it even though I love the projector I still feel the VB is spoiling it. Is their any ways of getting the Maximium from a AE700 with using any particular settings filters or screens? Ive set to 25 25 25 always unplug from mains and have tried various other settings to no avail.

    The problem on mine appears to be worse with light colours and in particular in skies with light blue, Outrun 2 GT4 Prolouge etc. Its been a while since I connecteed the PC but if anything I think the VB is less noticable from the ATI X800 outputting at native res, is VB effected with the PJ upscaling other sources?

    Appreciate any help heres how Im connected with a 80" screen approx 10ft back. Xbox: Offical component and X2vga / Ps2 component / Gamecube component and Pc via VGA 1280x720.

    :lease: Help me AE700 owners your my only hope...
     
  2. PJTX100

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    Bad VB is when it annoys you.

    As an aside, was watching the (Sky) news last night on the Tosh 28" CRT widescreen we have in the living room. And the imperfections were amazing, screen misalignment, jaggies etc. OK, not a top end TV, OK it could probably be adjusted, but the number of widescreen TVs I see which have curved pics etc is amazing.

    Compared to these imperfections on a small screen, modern PJ's do an amazing job...PJ
     
  3. thfccambs

    thfccambs
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    I have 144hrs on my AE700 now and only really get VB on skysports channels.Don't notice it at all when using my pioneer 575 with scart,just notice it with sky+.
    Got use to it mine doesn't seem to be to bad,have tried unplugging PJ and makes no diffrence.
     
  4. explicitlyrics

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    I always turn off the rocker switch just incase i trigger something, a little crazy really but hey. I dont notice any VB at all and am very happy. I personally think it worked best for me when i adjusted the flicker after about 20mins, I think this worked perfectly and ill get back to you with the settings (off the top of my head it is 24/26/27 but ill have to check.
     
  5. damned

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    For past owners of the AE100, how does the vertical banding compare with the older model?
    I notice what I assumed to be fixed panel noise very occasionally on light, panning shots on the AE100. Nothing that really bothers me though.
    Is the AE700 worse or better (for VB) than the AE100?
     
  6. Hal

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    On the setting piont I set mine to 28 28 28 As I read on this forum that was the best And it was better, but later on I re did it my just ajusting untill the flicker was at its best for me in all 3 colours not looking at what values got just tweaking. And the results were far better I have all but got rid off vb only seen it abit on sky But never on dvd. Its some think you mite want to try...
     
  7. Claude

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    Mr. Latte,

    I'm the owner of a Hitachi TX100 with about 250 hours on the lamp. Am using my PC as the source of DVD's and TV. I also have some visable vertical banding. I beleive that our projectors use the same LCD panel although from what I have read elsewhere VB can be a symtom of scaling.

    I don't know a great deal about this as I just play the DVD's straight from Windows Media Player. My graphics card is set to the same resolution as the projector (1280x720) but I have no idea wether the movies I am watching are 720p or 480i !!!

    Wanted to lob this information into the pot as I'm wandering if the problem may be rectified with the use of software such as Powerstrip. Such a program allows the user to define the Front door, Back door, Vertical Porch and horizontal frequency if that lot means anything to you. I wonder if tailoring these would resolve the issue. I could well be talking rubbish.

    Let me know.
     
  8. bad robot

    bad robot
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    What you describe their seems like what im experiencing, the vertical lines I have are very thin. Panned shots sometimes show it too but like you mention light backgrounds is were its most noticable.

    Ive tried different values in the flicker adjustment, applied different cables and still havnt fully resolved it. Im not sure if perhaps im being oversensitive regarding this but Id rather not see it at all.

    Can some of you please post some screen captures of VB and perhaps Ill get one added later to compare and to have your valued opnions.
     
  9. Kahless725

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    Well I have the same panels on my PJ (A Z3) which I use exclusivley with a HCPC, I get VB bad on sky but not on dvd or divx? I will get round to finding out why someday.

    Robert.
     
  10. Dazzler2409

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    Yep same...same...same. Not too fussed really (am I just trying to convince myself???)

    It is deffo worse for first 20 minutes or so. Always rears its ugly head on cloudy sky shots, worse case for me on Apoc Now Redux DVD with the many bright misty/smokey scenes.

    Has anyone read any industry literature on the whole VB thing... has Panasonic been brave enough to publish any statements, tips etc??
     
  11. paulfoley

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    Right firstly I have the AE500 (Same panels) & have now completely eliminated VB from DVD Watching. To do this I spent 3 months reading, tweaking & complaining to Panasonic. Here's how I did it :

    1) Set all values the same in the Flicket Tweak.

    2) Bought a DVI enabled Player & set it to 1.1 map (720P).

    3) Turn off power at mains after every viewing.

    Here's what else I tried that made no difference whatsoever :

    A) Bought an RFI Filter for Projector Power Source.

    B) Went in via VGA using a HCPC & tried Autosetup, Clock Phase, etc

    Hope this helps ?

    :thumbsup:
     
  12. Claude

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    Hi you lot.

    A few of you mention adjusting flicker to 25,25,25 or 24,26,27 etc. What is this? Is it a feater of the Panny that doesn't apply to my Hitachi. Please enlighten me.
     
  13. thfccambs

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    Is anyone watching the football on BBC?The picture on my ae700 is crap.Ghosting around the players and can notice the VB really bad. :thumbsdow
     
  14. PJTX100

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    I suspect this sort of thing is in the factory menu of the TX100, which I've read is a "scary place" so until any of this gets to the point of being noticable/annoying then I'll leave well alone!
    I do see VB on the TX100 but it's extremely subtle and fleeting, to be honest had I not read about it on this forum I wouldn't have thought anything of it...PJ
     
  15. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Here are some shots taken to help show what Im getting via approx 80" DRH slimline screen and flicker settings approx 23/24/26. Slightly changing values tweaks it a little but on mine over 27 shows flicker more. Personally gaming is a large part of the usage my AE 700 gets.

    Im coming to the conclusion what Im suffering from is possibly more "screen door effect" as softening the focus can fix this issue I have but then leaves menus and text hard to read. See what you think is this VB or chickenwire/screendoor? Please note that its only a problem on lighter colours/backgrounds and Im delighted with everything else regarding this projector.

    Sorry "PJTX100" I cant help much regarding the Hitachi and its menus, maybe someone else can be of assistance.

    GT4 Demo: Nurburgring via component cable 60Hz but demo only allows interlaced. / Projector and screen not fully configured.
    [​IMG]

    See the clouds:
    Light backgrounds is the problem area.
    [​IMG]

    Visable line structure:
    [​IMG]

    Close up
    [​IMG]

    Sorry about pic quality its quite hard to capture this in a dark room. Anyone wanting to comment or add some thoughts?
     
  16. explicitlyrics

    explicitlyrics
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    is that driven by a pc or an xbox? Those pixel problems seem to be more PC/xbox related than to do with the projector.

    The picture quality there looks pretty poor :p. When running Need for Speed Underground 2 on the xbox it looks very similar to that (I think the game was very badly made for high definition). Otherwise on PC gaming and some Xbox games (Halo 2 for example) the picture is astounding, might take a few pics tonight, although my digicam is not the best,,,
     
  17. thfccambs

    thfccambs
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    :confused: Need for Speed Underground 2 on my ae700 looks amazing,or at least i think so.
     
  18. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Please remember the room is temporarily setup, I havnt adjusted colours brightness etc or tried to get the best quality from the projector before taking those shots.

    It was only to demonstrate the issues I have which altering colours/brightness or contrast do nothing to eliminate. However I gladly welcome pictures of Halo 2 or the Sky from level 1 in Outrun 2 as I still get aparent VB with Xbox both via X2VGA and component HD.
     
  19. thfccambs

    thfccambs
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    Heres one from halo 2 ,football that looks terrible and NFS2.
     
  20. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Thanks for your pics but colours blacklevel etc are not a problem. If I was to show you snaps from the same source and bump up adjust my colours and settings it would look good.. Later Ill add some pics showing the same game / GT4 demo "George V" French track which is a night-time track, it has no such problems.

    I still say light coloured skies and other light colours are problematic and the issue at hand furthermore it isnt a problem with the source or interference.

    Can we see more examples demonstrating light colours from others too.
     
  21. explicitlyrics

    explicitlyrics
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    ill try and take a few pictures tonight after supper. Lots of work to do but im sure there will be somebody to use the projector for a while so as to make it worthwhile turning on.
     
  22. explicitlyrics

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    Well I have had a go taking pictures, unfortunately now that I have put them on my pc i can see that the shutter speed was far too slow, i will have to try freeze frame next time as my current camera doesnt support a faster shutter speed. Also my camera is awful in the dark so I might need to get closer or turn up the brightness next time i take pictures (ill try that soon). Anyway ill attach them for you to have a look at.

    http://www.photobox.co.uk/album/1127264 (the awful pixellation is from the camera in dark) (the Shrek 2 picture comes from DVDx2 on the xbox)

    By the way, these are the settings I made with a DVE disk (I think it is NTSC if that makes any difference). Started from Normal settings and then:
    +4 Contrast
    -8 Brightness
    -2 Colour
    0 Tint
    +3 Sharpness
    Low Lamp mode

    As for flicker adjustment, I was wrong. I settled on the final values of Blue 26, Red 27, Green 26 and have no noticable VB what so ever. That is in the desk setup mode.
     
  23. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Thanks mate appreciate those pics and settings, might just give em a go.
    Part of my problem is associated with having an approx 80" screen but being seated only 8ft back.

    Heres a quick pic of Mon Inc which maybe shows the performance in a better light but as the room is still in progress Ive yet to configure with DVE etc.


    [​IMG]
    Pioneer 565A via component
    Cinema 1 settings slightly adjusted
     
  24. explicitlyrics

    explicitlyrics
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    the thumbnails are created when you upload the pictures to te forums.

    That picture looks good I have to admit! :) I might try and borrow a friends camera to see if i can get a better representation of what the image looks like.
     
  25. bad robot

    bad robot
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    Think Ill get it sorted sometime
     
  26. PJTX100

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    Hey guys, if yer gonna upload some big pics can you upload something decent like some porn shots... ;)
    Anyone perusing this forum would think all we do round here is drive playstation cars and watch :censored: Monsters Inc or Star Wars...
    :devil: PJ
     
  27. bad robot

    bad robot
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    As the room is still in a temporary layout today I got the AE700 hooked up as monitor 3 from the PC. I even ran it via the secondary small PCI ATI 5200 from VGA running standard res 1280x720 which allows upto 85Hz.

    Surprisingly Ive found no problems with the vertical banding on light coloured desktops such as light blue right through to plain white. This leads me to believe the VB im suffering from light backgrounds from all inputs is indeed caused by the scaler within the AE700 upscaling typical TV or console resolutions.

    When fed native res its stunning but Ill have to live with the slighlt annoying VB from low res sources.
     
  28. abs

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    i would say definetly worse on the ae700. i have demoed this pj twice now at different stores and the level of VB is too apparent. i am looking to upgrade my ae100 and this was only after seeing my mates ae500 which i thought was an improvement over my ae100, i thought i'd go for the ae700.
    however i was put off big time and have decided to go for the sony hs50 or sanyo plv-z3. i managed to demo the sony at the same time as the 700 and the sony blew it away, hardly any VB or anything noticable unless you looked for it. the 700 was just too distracting. i have yet to demo the sanyo before deciding.

    anyway, i returned home and switched on my ae100 and there was very little VB and the picture qual was still comparable to the 700 (although many will beg to differ, i am just being honest)

    i would say demo the 700 before committing, you may be dissapointed otherwise
     
  29. the_oldhams

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    Just got my AE700 and tried various DVD's and really cannot see the vertical banding - maybe I am lucky - have done the flicker tweak .
     
  30. spotthedog

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    I have had a 700 for 4 weeks (37 hours of use) and have to admit to being disappointed with it due to VB and white flashes. This is my first PJ and I didn't do enough research before purchase, it was an impulse buy so I didn't really know about the VB issue. I chose Panasonic as I have been happy with other products of theirs previously.

    I'm sufficiently unhappy to return it to where I purchased it from for repair. If that doesn't sort it out I'll try for a refund. On the basis that some units have no VB and others do then that to me is a fault. I may have put up with the white flashes if it had not been for the VB as the picture is fantastic otherwise. My PJ has never been left on standby and I have not flicker tweaked in case it affects the warranty, my dealer has only stated to not leave in standby.

    I think that the problem with the bands is that they always appear in the foreground, i.e watching LOTR TT with lots of valley scenes the sky in background is covered with lines in the foreground. This destroys the any depth to the image. I will certainly be happy to have a 700 if it works correctly, if not then I'll do some research and choose a different make.

    Spot
     

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