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help & advise needed, i just setup my yamaha rxv667 and speakers parameters with YPAO

Atari2600

Established Member
hi guys

i have just finished setting up the speaker parameters on my yamaha rxv667 av reciever with the YPAO automatic set up but i would like some help and advise please.

the YPAO automatic set up almost did every thing perfect but for the subwoofer the distance detected was 6 meters and also the frequency cross over it set to 160hz, (i originally had the frequency cross over to 80hz) and in return it has also set the level for the sub to -7.5

i have just amended the distance to 1 meter but i dont know what to set up the frequency cross over too! (wether to leave it at 160hz or change it to 80hz) and also dont know what to set the level for the subwoofer too.

the YPAO automatic set up also changed my L/R surround to large but i have changed these back to small.

can you guys help me out please.

thanks and regards
jav
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
People generally override what the YPAO automatically sets the amp to in relation to the subwoofer and crossover. You do right by setting all your speakers to small and using a crossover befitting your setup. AV amps seldom get the subwoofer settings correct.
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
The r90s only go down to 85Hz so a crossover setting of 90 to 100Hz would be more suitable imho. 80Hz is really a little low for your speakers (although 160 seems way too high).
 

Atari2600

Established Member
i have set all my speakers to small , so i thought its not really necessary to match the crossover frequency for the sub ?

i am a little confused on this, can i get a few feed back from a few members on this please.
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
The crossover on the actual sub needs to be set to the maximum value and you then need to set the crossover within the amp. This means with the speakers all set to small the amp does all the bass management. Within the amp you would need to set the crossover for the sub/speakers to around 90-100Hz looking at the frequency response of your speakers.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
i have set all my speakers to small , so i thought its not really necessary to match the crossover frequency for the sub ?

i am a little confused on this, can i get a few feed back from a few members on this please.

You are not matching the setting on the sub. The sub is set to its highest frequency setting and the crossover filter on the amp is set in relation to the lowest frequency your speakers (not the sub) can handle.

You set the speakers to small so that you can define a crossover for them. The crossover allows you to redirect the frequencies your speakers cannot reproduce to the subwoofer. If your speakers have a frequency range no lower than 120Hz then you need to use a crossover of 120Hz to direct all frequencies below 120Hz away from the speakers and to the sub. If you set speakers as being large, the full range of frequencies are sent to the speakers unfiltered even if your speakers cannot handle the full range of frequencies present and the crossover setting on the amp has no effect in relation to the speakers set as large.
 
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Atari2600

Established Member
guys i absolutley get it now :thumbsup: thank you so much

if my speakers frequency response range is 85hz - 25khz would you say that the ideal and best setting on the reciever for the crossover would be 90hz?

and lastley what about the volume level for the subwoofer on the reciever?

i have set the volume nob on the subwoofer at half way and the ypao set the volume level at -7.5db on the reciever do i put this back to 0db or leave it were the ypao has set it at?
if you were in my shoes what would you set the volume level at on the reciever? (i want it all to sound natural and how the directors intend it to be, dont want to over power the bass).

thanks again guys much appreciated
regards
jav
 

Atari2600

Established Member
You are not matching the setting on the sub. The sub is set to its highest frequency setting and the crossover filter on the amp is set in relation to the lowest frequency your speakers (not the sub) can handle.

You set the speakers to small so that you can define a crossover for them. The crossover allows you to redirect the frequencies your speakers cannot reproduce to the subwoofer. If your speakers have a frequency range no lower than 120Hz then you need to use a crossover of 120Hz to direct all frequencies below 120Hz away from the speakers and to the sub. If you set speakers as being large, the full range of frequencies are sent to the speakers unfiltered even if your speakers cannot handle the full range of frequencies present and the crossover setting on the amp has no effect in relation to the speakers set as large.

please ignore my second pm to you as after reading this it all makes sence to me now.

thanks
 

Atari2600

Established Member
guys i absolutley get it now :thumbsup: thank you so much

if my speakers frequency response range is 85hz - 25khz would you say that the ideal and best setting on the reciever for the crossover would be 90hz?

and lastley what about the volume level for the subwoofer on the reciever?

i have set the volume nob on the subwoofer at half way and the ypao set the volume level at -7.5db on the reciever do i put this back to 0db or leave it were the ypao has set it at?
if you were in my shoes what would you set the volume level at on the reciever? (i want it all to sound natural and how the directors intend it to be, dont want to over power the bass).

thanks again guys much appreciated
regards
jav

sorry guys to sound a bit pushy! but can you guys able to give me some answers regarding my last question. see above ^^^^

ive got only 45 mins left before i finish work and ideall i would like answers before i go home.

sorry once again to sound pushy

thanks regards
jav
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
The volume should be set to what ever sounds right. There is no absolute answer. Start with the settings the auto setup has given and then go from there. If it does not sound loud enough then increase it until it sounds OK or it is sounds too loud or overpowering then turn it down a bit. The only way to truely know if it is set right is to get an SPL meter and measure the test tones using this. You then set the levels so each speaker gives the same level. Even then some people will run the sub slighter higher or lower depending on their personal preference.
 

Atari2600

Established Member
The volume should be set to what ever sounds right. There is no absolute answer. Start with the settings the auto setup has given and then go from there. If it does not sound loud enough then increase it until it sounds OK or it is sounds too loud or overpowering then turn it down a bit. The only way to truely know if it is set right is to get an SPL meter and measure the test tones using this. You then set the levels so each speaker gives the same level. Even then some people will run the sub slighter higher or lower depending on their personal preference.

thankyou for your reply

altering the volume level for the subwoofer were is the best place to do this? on the actual subwoofer volume nob or in the av reciever subwoofer level setting? is there any advantages / dis advantages on were is the best place to control the volume level for the subwoofer?

using an spl meter how simple is it ? i was going to buy one from bk when i bought my sub but the guy said you need to have some sort of pc software in order to make it work properly as you need to calculate all the figures ect...
so i panicked and decided not buy it.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
thankyou for your reply

altering the volume level for the subwoofer were is the best place to do this? on the actual subwoofer volume nob or in the av reciever subwoofer level setting? is there any advantages / dis advantages on were is the best place to control the volume level for the subwoofer?

using an spl meter how simple is it ? i was going to buy one from bk when i bought my sub but the guy said you need to have some sort of pc software in order to make it work properly as you need to calculate all the figures ect...
so i panicked and decided not buy it.

You modify the subwoofer level on the amp in order to alter its volume. Always leave the subwoofer's own controls alone after you've run the YPAO calibration.

You simply use the test tone generated by the amp (pink noise) to take readings with the SPL meter. If purchasing a Radio Shack SPL meter then instructions are included on how to use it. THe tone is repeated from each speaker in turn and the sub. You need to measure the level of each tone from your listening position. You use the levels settings on the amp to adjust each speaker and the sub until they all give the same SPL reading as measured from your listening position.

You may find this of some help:
Setting Speaker Levels & Distance in a Surround Sound System — Reviews and News from Audioholics
 
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PSM1

Distinguished Member
You only need to use a PC if you are doing a full room correction and multiple frequency sweeps (and then correcting for room interactions). As above all you want to do is use the spl for basic level setings which is easy.
 

Atari2600

Established Member
thanks guys

it really is that easy wow!!, if i knew this i would have bought the spl from bk electronics.:mad:

on my iphone 3gs i have a voice recording app, (voice memo app) which has a vu needle gauge thing on it which goes from - 20 to + 5 can i get away using this app to set my speaker levels :blush: or do i need a proper sophisticated spl meter just like the one that bk electronics are selling?
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
Since you are only looking to get all the speakers to the same level you could give it a go and see what results you get. It will cost you nothing so well worth trying. If there is a problem it will be trying to set the sub volume as it might not 'hear' the sub frequency volume correctly. But try it out and report back how it goes.
 

Atari2600

Established Member
Since you are only looking to get all the speakers to the same level you could give it a go and see what results you get. It will cost you nothing so well worth trying. If there is a problem it will be trying to set the sub volume as it might not 'hear' the sub frequency volume correctly. But try it out and report back how it goes.

i will try it, what do i use to test ? the test tone from the reciever? if so this dosent stay on a set speaker it changes and goes round, am i best to put in a thx bluray movie that has the thx calibration on it and use that as this allows the test tone to stay on a certain speaker untill u press next.?

finally and probebly the main question is: what am i suppose to set the volume levels at and all speakers including the subwoofer should be on the same volume level?
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
Often there is an option in the amp to hold the tone on a particular speaker but if not a thx disc will be fine.
What you want is all speakers to be the same level, including the sub. You may then, depending on personal taste, may want to run the centre slightly louder to improve vocals. If you read the following it will tell you all you need to know:
Calibrating Your Audio With an SPL Meter - Blu-ray Forum
 

Atari2600

Established Member
Often there is an option in the amp to hold the tone on a particular speaker but if not a thx disc will be fine.
What you want is all speakers to be the same level, including the sub. You may then, depending on personal taste, may want to run the centre slightly louder to improve vocals. If you read the following it will tell you all you need to know:
Calibrating Your Audio With an SPL Meter - Blu-ray Forum

thankyou so much for the link it is very interesting and educational:smashin:

1 thing i didnt quite understand in the link is about it saying radio shack spl meters are incorrect and you need to add a few db on to it when testing, so the one bk electronics are selling would that be incorrect aswell? were and which type can i buy that will read out accurate figures but is similar prices as the bk electronics one.

finally last question: the link saying that -30db volume level from the master volume control is the ideal listening volume in a home for home cinema?

if so i some times find it to be a little low on volume as certain films are not load enough, especially the likes of dvd and sky hd, blurays seem to be fine although i do some times put the master volume on around -27db this is before i had my speakers calibarated with the ypao auto setting thing.

am i right in saying that it also recommended -30db master volume to be a reference level in a home? as it was saying 0db on master volume in cinemas ect is reference level,:eek:
if so 0db master volume level would blow my speakers and probebly crack the windows and bring down the ceiling in my home :)
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
The radio shack meter is one of the more accurate meters around (for a reasonable price and available to the average consumer) and the fact that the response differences are known and plotted makes it more accurate still. Hence you will nto really find one any more accurate and I doubt the BK one is accurate (I am not sure but think it could be based on the radioshack one anyway).
I would not worry what the dial says and reference levels etc. Unless you get an spl meter and actually calibrate your system to reference level (can not remember the dB value) at 0 on the amp scale then it will all be irrelevant anyway. Just set the levels up the same and then listen to it at what ever value on the dial that you find comfortable.
 

Atari2600

Established Member
The radio shack meter is one of the more accurate meters around (for a reasonable price and available to the average consumer) and the fact that the response differences are known and plotted makes it more accurate still. Hence you will nto really find one any more accurate and I doubt the BK one is accurate (I am not sure but think it could be based on the radioshack one anyway).
I would not worry what the dial says and reference levels etc. Unless you get an spl meter and actually calibrate your system to reference level (can not remember the dB value) at 0 on the amp scale then it will all be irrelevant anyway. Just set the levels up the same and then listen to it at what ever value on the dial that you find comfortable.


the bk electronics spl meter is a radioshack spl meter,

just a little confused as you say the radioshack spl meters are one of the most accurate meters around and the link says they are not and you need to add afew db when reading it!!

thankyou as everything you are guys (mainly you) giving me all this advise is all making sence and i understand it all.

thanks again
 

PSM1

Distinguished Member
The radioshack meters are some of the most accurate meters at a reasonable price and available to the average consumer. The fact they also have a calibration curve means that it is easy to adjust the readings to make it accurate. A professional calibrated sound meter that would be accurate at all frequencies would be very expensive which would make that option not very viable for most people.
 

Atari2600

Established Member
:smashin:

last night i listened to a few music tracks in 2 channel and also watched a sky hd program that was in 5.1 DD, after the calibration i did with just the YPAO auto set up thing!

i have to say that i was very impressed with the sound clarity, the sound was much clearer and i can certainly hear certain instruments that i couldnt here before! also in 2 channel stereo the sound felt so wide almost virtual surround and fills the room up,

however i did feel that the subwoofer was very low - this could be becuase i was so used to having the sub volume pritty loud and have always liked the loud bass or purley that the sub volume level isnt correctly set with the YPAO
so i am definetley going to buy a radio shack spl meter, so i am 100% for sure that the subwoofer level is correct and in line with all the other speakers, as this is my first proper home cinema so i want to get the sound exactly how it was intended and not over do the bass.

could you recommend me a good radioshack spl meter ? is the bk electronic radioshack spl meter any good?

i need some thing that is very easy to use and not complicated as by know i guess that you guys know that i am not very bright in this section !!! :laugh:

thanks
jav
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
:smashin:

last night i listened to a few music tracks in 2 channel and also watched a sky hd program that was in 5.1 DD, after the calibration i did with just the YPAO auto set up thing!

i have to say that i was very impressed with the sound clarity, the sound was much clearer and i can certainly hear certain instruments that i couldnt here before! also in 2 channel stereo the sound felt so wide almost virtual surround and fills the room up,

however i did feel that the subwoofer was very low - this could be becuase i was so used to having the sub volume pritty loud and have always liked the loud bass or purley that the sub volume level isnt correctly set with the YPAO
so i am definetley going to buy a radio shack spl meter, so i am 100% for sure that the subwoofer level is correct and in line with all the other speakers, as this is my first proper home cinema so i want to get the sound exactly how it was intended and not over do the bass.

could you recommend me a good radioshack spl meter ? is the bk electronic radioshack spl meter any good?

i need some thing that is very easy to use and not complicated as by know i guess that you guys know that i am not very bright in this section !!! :laugh:

thanks
jav

Radioshack isn't a type of SPL meter, it is the make of meter so named after the chain of electrical hobbyist stores that originally sold it. There are 2 types/models of Radioshack SPL meter, a digital readout and an analogue readout. Either one of these two will be fine. The analogue model is more accurate when dealing with low frequency readings, but neither is the new analogue model as good as the older discontinued RS SPL meter when it comes to low frequency response.

There are retailers selling the meters for less than the price BK sell it for inc. delivery:
7-Range Analog Sound Level Meter: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

Digital Sound Level Meter: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
 
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