1. Join Now

    AVForums.com uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Hello to the CRT forum

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by diy_duffer, Apr 21, 2004.

  1. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Ok firstly I would like to say hello to everybody within this forum. From looking at the posts there are a mixture of outright crt guru's down to newbie's like me. I do like reading to the various issues and solutions surrounding PJ's. I have not yet officially entered the crt world as I do not have a fully functional set-up but intend to have one in the not too distant future. I have acquired two barco projectors one a non functional data 600 (could be simple fault) and a working data 800. I have a few probably blindingly obvious question that I'm sure someone can answer.

    1. How can you tell how many hours the tubes have had clocked up.

    2. What signs exist if the tubes are on the way out.

    3. Are there any prone areas on the 800 that I should look for to see If I have a outright royal sea going cockup of a unit or a worthy unit to set up in my home cinema.

    These are opening questions but I would like to inspect the units in order to see If I have a pile of pap or decent machine. Any help to a newbie crt owner would be most appreciated.

    I think I will be contacting gizlaroc because I have heard he is a specialist for the Norfolk area in crt service and repair.

    Good day to all those within this forum.

    Cheers

    Duff
    :)
     
  2. acave

    acave
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2002
    Messages:
    782
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Location:
    London
    Ratings:
    +24
    I'll give you one bit of advice. Be careful of those offered for sale on eBay. I purchased a Barco 1209 which one of the members on here was selling. I'm sure bargains are to be had but not in my experience.

    I'm now left with a huge doorstop; the projector was sold to me with fluid inside the projector which made its way onto the motherboard circuits. Even if the motherboard is replaced, fluid is STILL leaking from the lens (very few CRT projectors have liquid coupled tubes btw, sods law for me).

    I also purchased the projector with excellent tubes.

    http://www.davidbowie.com/users/dts/1209_2.jpg

    Not the case.

    Have a look at this thread. This was the seller stating the condition on here.

    http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=104561&highlight=1209

    Try not to pay attention to pictures of the tubes as well.

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3086494120&category=22610

    This is the same projector. Notice no mention of the cracked C-Element.

    Although the seller had given me some cash back to purchase a used tube, he said that would be the end of the deal.

    I feel he knew the projector had problems and wanted shot of it.

    The only reply he could manage when told the projector was rubber ducked was pasting my email back when I agreed to take the cash for the tube.

    I just hope you have better luck. I'll buy my next CRT (as I should have this one) from a dealer like Roland at B4 Projection.

    I got carried away with the word “Bargain” on this 1209.
     
  3. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
    Hi diy_duffer,

    First off, welcome to the forums.

    If you wanna check the hours on the d800, go into the service mode and there should be an option "run time" or something to that effect.

    I'm still learning the ropes of CRT front projection, but it's an amazing hobby, and there is so much to learn to keep this beasts up & running nicely.

    I'd second acave coments, and give Roland@B4 a call. I know he's a very busy person, but he's very knowledgeable about Barco CRT's. I bought my BD801s from him, and it's a great machine and i'm still learning on how to get the best out of it.

    http://www.b4projection.co.uk/

    Cheers

    Cosmic023
     
  4. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Many thanks cosmic023 & acave I wish to thank you for your reply. Is there anything I can inspect to assess the state of this unit? What is a C-Element? etc

    I may have a piece of junk or I may have a decent unit. I think my best thing to do is maybe to let crtprojectors.co.uk have a look at it and give me the verdict.

    I just wanted a little technical knowledge to inspect the unit so as not to cry myself to sleep tonight . I'm an engineer so any technical help would be much appreciated. How would one know if the tubes are junk?

    The unit will sit on my workbench until I have inspected it for foreign bodies and cobwebs.

    Cheers

    Duff
     
  5. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
    Hi diy_duffer,

    Well i think these unit's are built like tanks, so can take a fair bit of abuse.

    From what i've seen the tubes are the most expensive part in the PJ, so screen burn , this link will help you to see what the state of the tubes are in ??

    Again Roland or Gordon, are your best bets for more advice on theses PJ's. (Well unless anyone else knows ??)

    Again having a PJ with pefrect tubes, with very little or no burn on the tube face is ideal. Then if you set the PJ up, and use it properly, it should last for many years.

    Cheers

    Cosmic023
     
  6. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,782
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +660

    :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

    That will make a few people chuckle!!


    I have just had a couple of CRT's myself mate, no more than that.

    But I am more than willing to meet up and share what little knowledge I have with you, I do like to do everything myself and learn what does what and why, when it comes to convergence, astig, focus etc.
    This is definitely the way to go with CRT imho, leave fault finding to the pros and pay them if you dont feel like putting your hand near 30,000 volts to get your image totally dialled in.

    If you want to shoot me a PM with details of where you are then mabe we can have a look at your crt and see about getting it up and running.

    regards

    Guy
     
  7. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    The hint I dropped for gizlaroc may have paid off ;) , from the amount of posts you have then there is a damn site more knowledge on your side than mine.

    I will continue to traul through the data 800 posts in the hope of gleaming some knowledge on the subject.

    The saga continues.

    Cheers

    Duff
     
  8. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
  9. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Cheers Cosmic I will have a gander and mull it over. gizlaroc is giving me ahand with some technical matters as well.

    .Duff:)
     
  10. Paul D

    Paul D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,620
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +391
    acave

    Not to start an argument or get involved in your dispute with Simon.
    I viewed the 1209 Simon Finch had, and at least at the time i saw it, it was stunning.
    Simon opened the case to show me how spotless the inners were, and there was no sign of any leakage.

    Simon had asked me to visit, to help set it up.
    He didn't want a professional install booked, until it was checked out as at least functioning properly.
    Although i was feeling like sh*t on the day, we still managed to get a great image using my laptop and Theatertek.

    After seeing how sharp i managed to get the convergence grid with very little effort, i began to feel green with envy!

    Simon was in two minds whether to stick with his easy to use NEC HT1000 DLP or get the 1209 installed.

    We did find out that his HT1000 was poorly adjusted, and after a quick twiddle managed to get a much better image. I'm not sure if this then made his mind up to sell the 1209.

    This is not to say that the image from the HT1000 was better. Rather that he mentioned he was happy with the HT1000 and the extra cash from selling the 1209 could go towards other things.

    If i hadn't just bought my S3 DLP, i would have snatched his hand off for what he was selling it for. I had been expecting to pay nearer £7-10,000 for a mint 1209s, so felt gutted one coming up so cheap.

    I only know Simon via these forums. And through these forums i have met him at the Manchester show and when i visited his house. He was great company and came across as very genuine, upfront and honest.
    At no time did i get the impression from Simon that anything untowards was going on.

    So i'm a little shocked at what's happened, and i'm sorry to hear that you have had problems with it. I hope with some "TLC" and help from these forums it can be fixed without to much extra cost.
     
  11. Roland @ B4

    Roland @ B4
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2001
    Messages:
    2,238
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    51
    Location:
    Reading.
    Ratings:
    +32
    Acave's projector is a sad story.
    I went to do the installation of this projector earlier this week but could not complete it due to the issues that I was confronted with.
    The green tube was quite badly warn and needed replacing This is common in ex simulation machines and from my experience of the 1209 chassis in general.
    (Looking at the number of tubes I have bought / replaced over the years the green out numbers the blue.) However it was evenly worn as his picture shows, so it is not surprising that Fulabeer was able to get a good picture from it. (There is a lot of debate and fear over tube wear before the picture is examined)
    With the lenses off however a new gremlin appeared. The C element ( thats the curved lens on the back of liquid coupled tubes) on the blue tube was cracked and had been repaired with a hard setting resin of some kind! Quite how this got broken we can only speculate but my suspicion is that some one did something up too tight. Unfortunately the cooling fluid was still oozing out and causing a small river down into the projector. (The 1209/2 holds about 1.5 Litres of this stuff which is a glycol type liquid) Whilst the projector is sitting on the deck no problems will occur for a while because the fluid will just accumulate in the base of the projector.
    However in moving the projector around and getting it into his room Acave had to turn the machine on its side and the sticky stuff must have made its way around the projector then.
    He had already told me that the power supply went pop when he powered it up so armed with a spare I looked around for blown fuses and could find none on the Power supply, but on the mains input one of the slow blow fuses had gone. Quick replacement and all was thought to be well.
    Bare in mind I hadn’t seen the leaking fluid or botched lens at this stage.
    I’m quite used to projectors going “pop”. This one went “BANG”.:eek:
    Closer inspection revealed the lens fluid running a little track down the motherboard. I cleaned it up with alcohol and dried that out with a hair drier but the fluid was under one of the multipin connectors, which means the motherboard has to come out and probably be replaced. This is the one board on a Barco projector that is not modular and requires a whole heap of work to replace.
    Acave and I are still talking about what we are going to do.
    P.S. I don't believe that Simon knew about the fluid, he seemed a really genuine block when I spoke to him on the phone. This is just a really bad luck story
     
  12. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Sorry If I knocked up a hornets nest here it sounds like a bad luck scenario. Hopefully the PJ I bought does not have any BANG incidents although it does look as though it has been through a lot of hard times. The case is a little cracked (although maybe I could get another from someone with 800 spares). So if the case is anything to go by I may just have bought a giant piece of weightlifting equipment. Although not built like geoff capes there would probably be more chance of him being able to fix it then me should it be a duffer .;)

    Are 800 spares few and far between or have I got a servicable model. I'm an electrical engineer by trade but from looking inside I would need to be a fine electronics engineer to tackle any small repairs.

    Regards

    Duff
     
  13. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,782
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +660
    diy_duffer the Barco units have wonderful design in that you can swap out alot of the internal boards with new ones if you have problems.
    Roland always has a good supply and can probaly diagnose most faults over the phone if you ever have a problem.



    Acave, really sorry about the 1209 mate, bet you are gutted.
    and there was me worrying about the tubes on my NEC XG as there is slight wear when you get them in the right angle.
    So what are you going to do ??
     
  14. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
    Yep shame about Acave's 1209, i'd still love an 1209......still adore my BD801s, but then i'd like a better PJ for HD sources in a few years when HD becomes more mainstream.

    Just goes to show it's better Buying stuff of quality people like Roland@B4, at least you get a quality PJ at a reasonable price. (with tech, help to boot)

    I suppose that's the risk you take buying off ebay (or elsewhere for that matter), unless you can see it in person.

    Just hope Acave gets a result soon.......

    Cheers

    Cosmic023
     
  15. Paul D

    Paul D
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2000
    Messages:
    2,620
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    106
    Location:
    Manchester
    Ratings:
    +391
    acave

    From what i saw before it went bang on you, the PJ seemed calibrate without any issues.
    I was able to get straight geometry/convergence/focus without much messing about.(i can only imagine what Roland can do with them!)
    With this in mind, and assuming the motherboard damage hasn't ruined it. I would think it would still be well worth getting Roland to replace the green tube/motherboard and fully calibrate it.
    If funds allow, i would see about getting the "C" elements fitted.

    :offtopic:
    I've been having a final bit of fun with my Barcodata 808s(ex B4 projection) today.
    I've been doing a nutter calibration in preparation for selling.
    I've experimenting with different contrast/saturation/brightness settings etc, and i've been surprised how good the image turned out.
    The problem is a keep watching scenes instead of getting on with it!:hiya:
     
  16. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hello again everybody... I have had the 800 on the bench and taking a look around it (not that I would know if there was something wrong if it smacked me in the face!). I have switched the unit on and firstly gone to run time it shows a run time of 2070 hours I don’t know if this is good or not maybe somebody can let me know. It is currently set up in my wife's workshop, which the light is a little too much for test purposes so focusing is almost impossible. I will wait until this evening to try some more tests.

    One thing I did notice is that when going through the installation screens having adjusted the red and green lens to the grid when it cam to the blue I just could not seem to get a good focus. This may be due to the fact that the light is not terribly good but my vision is such that I could make out that the grid just would not focus fully no matter how much twiddling was involved. Any ideas?

    I have been speaking to gizlaroc and he has been a great help so far. I would like to ask an 800 expert as to the exact lead (if this is possible that is) that I would need to connect a DVD player or laptop to the data 800. By the looks of the back of the unit the 800 has an RGB input and 2 svideo inputs and also a vga TTL input whatever this is.

    Basically could somebody point me in the direction of what I would need to input dvd or vga into the 800?. I would gladly love to throw something together in the hope of actually seeing some video from the unit. This would give me some encouragement that the unit is not a giant door stop.

    I would like to hear from 800 or experts that have some information that could help.

    Best Regards

    Duff
     
  17. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
    Hi diy_duffer,

    Well i'm no expert.....

    As for your findings so far, The hour count doesn't really matter......it's the state of the tubes that matters.

    If you have tubes with no or very little burn, that's great !! Mine has done around the 5600 region now, with very little burn on the green & blue tubes, the red is perfect with no burn.

    As Roland told me, it's better to use a dvd like Digital Video Essensials or AVIA to setup the PJ and ignore the internal grids, or if you've got a PC attached use something like the Nokia test generator which is what i use with the AVIA disk.

    With the blue tube to get a reasonable focus, I de-focussed mine a bit. The blue is always the hardest one to setup. (Can anyone back that statement up ??) The red & green, should be sharp in the corners and in the middle.

    As for me i'm very happy with the picture coming out of my, BD801s......but then i'm still sure i could get better if i knew more about the PJ. Still haven't ventured inside the PJ yet, to do the electronic focus and astig adjustments. Just the thought of 36KV+ zooming around makes me nervous !!

    I'm sure fulabeer & gizlaroc, would be great help in getting a good picture out of your D800 PJ.

    Cheers

    Cosmic023
     
  18. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Cosmic ...Do you know what lead I would need to connect a laptop or dvsd to the 800?. I know this sounds silly but I dont have a clue to be honest. The learning curve is steep in comparison to plug and play hardware. It's very enjoyable on that curve but the only way it seems is to gleam knowledge form other users....

    Cheers

    Duff
     
  19. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
    diy_duffer:

    Well i'm using a (PC) VGA - Port3 (PJ) type cable, which i imported from the USA. (One hell of a cable !!)

    I suppose just for basic setup, you could use s-video or composite from a dvd player ?? That's what i did until i got the port3 cable.

    OK i know the picture is interlaced, and looks horrible, but if it's only for testing. It'll be ok.

    As far as i know you can't just connect a regular computer VGA-VGA cable. (Different pinouts ??)

    Just go with s-video from your DVD player, or maybe use the TV-Out on your lappy if it's got one ??

    Hope this helps ??

    Cheers

    Cosmic023
     
  20. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Hey cosmic could you give me some info on the vga lead you have from america?. PM or post it here so I can do a little research as to exactly what the spec of the cable is.

    Cheers mate

    Duff
     
  21. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
    Hi diy_duffer,

    Try here for a cable, and click on the "Request a quote".

    What your after is a HD15 (VGA) to Barco Port 3 cable, and then just put in the length you require.

    I picked up a 5m cable for under £60 including postage.

    Good Luck.

    Cheers

    Cosmic023
     
  22. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    Cheers Cosmic....

    Well having looked around the forum and read the basics I have taken the front lenses off to inspect the state of play. Well according to the chart forund at the URL below

    http://www.crtcinema.com/crtratings.html

    I would say it has medium wear which according to the chart will give me an estimated life 4000 -6000+ Hours. I'm hoping this will be a little more considering I'm only going to be using it for viewing movies on the weekends. By the looks of posts and manuals it is best to turn the PJ on well before watching a movie as the unit needs to achieve its nominal running temperature and various characteristics will behave in a normal manner. From my understanding the better the raster is centralized the longer the tube life (is this true?). It makes sense really as the image is spread evenly across the tube thus not creating too much intensity within one area. Apologies for writing like a manual but If my assumptions are correct then another 800 owner could find this useful. I have blown out moderately all pcb's with an air line they look fairly tidy.

    My next step is to go right through the installation procedure to see if I can get a decent picture out of it. This all seems a little pointless at the moment, as I will have to move it again tonight (its in my wife’s workshop and taking up space). We will be moving home soon so I would have to go through the entire set-up procedure again. Its like anything though I'm intrigued as to what I can get out of it in a short timeframe. All I have at the moment is an svhs cable coming from my dvd player directly into the back of the 800. having pressed button 2 on the remote I actually got a projected image of the film I was playing... whoopee (gattaca by the way).

    The one pain factor I have is that I do not have a remote for the unit I have to keep on using the internal one. If anyone has a spare 800 remote then please let me know and give me a price for it I could save myself so fiddling around obtaining one.

    Sure I have just touched the tip of the iceberg but what an iceberg to touch this PJ lark is most enjoyable once the grey matter starts to soak something up.

    Cheers

    Duff

    Btw how many posts until you can get an avatar?
     
  23. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
    diy_duffer:

    Glad to hear your making sense of it all now, good points raised in your last post.

    I find that leaving the PJ playing a DVD or something like a screensaver for up to 45mins, before watching the main feature.

    Cheers

    Cosmic023

    PS: I've sent you a PM
     
  24. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
  25. cosmic023

    cosmic023
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2003
    Messages:
    1,369
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    48
    Location:
    Somerset
    Ratings:
    +87
    Hi diy_duffer,

    Here is that
    link i promised.

    Or this link.

    If you can get results like this your onto a winner !! :clap:

    Cheers

    Cosmic023
     
  26. gizlaroc

    gizlaroc
    Well-known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2001
    Messages:
    8,782
    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    136
    Location:
    Norwich
    Ratings:
    +660
  27. diy_duffer

    diy_duffer
    Guest

    Products Owned:
    0
    Products Wanted:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0
    I got hold of a remote from a collegue down the road. He found an original installation manual and a remote control left over from when he de-commisioned an 800 from an electricity board premesis.

    Sadly the 800 was trashed in the process ...boo hoo.

    I have asked Roland for an 800 case and he is looking into it.

    Also I have bought a lead from ebay for the video input £6. vga to BNC r,g,b,h,v. All seems to be progressing nicely although I'm a bid stressed at the moment because of moving home etc, surveys, solicitors ahhh!.

    Cheers

    Ade
     

Share This Page

Loading...