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Heeelp! simple answers only please for a thickie. Re: Panasonic 5 series

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Mintguy, Oct 27, 2002.

  1. Mintguy

    Mintguy
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    Hi. I've been gagging to get a Plasma for about a year and finally convinced the other half. Now I'd made up my mind some time ago from reading internet reviews that I would get the 42" Panasonic 4 series. Of course they've now come out with the 5. One would imagine this would be an improvement.

    So today we went to Sevenoaks AV in Sevenoaks. Just inside the door they had a Pan 5 playing Ice Age. The first thing my g/f says is.. "It looks a bit flickery to me". Now some people notice screen refresh more than others and she notices it more than me. We didn't mention this to the sales guy, but later on he said "did you notice a flicker, I notice it but most people don't". When we spoke to one of his colleagues, supposedly someone more knowledgable, he said that one of the changes from the series 4 to the series 5 is that on the 4 the screen was scanned in two halfs top and bottom and that on the 5 got rid of this dual progressive scan and now use a single progressive scan, and that is why the flicker is more noticable. Now this is the first time that I've seen this mentioned, so I was a bit confused. But I'm pretty ignorant. He also said that Panasonic have tried to reduce the cost of the unit on the 5 series and so it was an inferior product to the 4 series. Basically they there trying to flog me the Pioneer instead of the Panasonic. They said the Pioneer was better because of the resolution and mentioned about connection problems with the Panasonic as certain inputs are on the same circuit. This is when it all started to go way above my head. I'm a real ignoramus when it comes to this.

    So my basic question is should I trust these guys at Sevenoaks? Have they set up the panasonic screen incorrectly or is this flicker a genuine problem? My g/f says there was a definite flicker on the screen we saw. Is this top half/bottom half progressive scan thing correct?

    I was surprised that they were trying to flog me the Pioneer as on the net almost everything I read says that the Panasonic is the better unit.
     
  2. jmack

    jmack
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    there was agood thread a while back about this single scan/double scan thingy
    search for jorgen poulsen its one of his posts
     
  3. Mintguy

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    Thanks for the hint. I found the thread
    [http://www.avforums.com/frame.html?http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=47455]

    So the single/dual issue is real. Interesting. Still I don't know if this is related to the observed flickering. I'd be interested to hear if any one else has noticed this flickering on the PWD5, or whether it was somethign to do with that particular screen and how it was set up. Personally I can't see it. It must be a genetic thing because my g/f and her brother can both see flickering when my PC monitor is set to 60Hz, but I can't see anything. Basically if she can see the flickering then this model just won't be acceptable, so for me it's an important issue.
     
  4. Paul D

    Paul D
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    Weird salesman who points out something that may put you off buying?.

    In the showroom, flourescent lighting "flicker" will cause many displays to appear to have the same flicker etc.

    Go back and ask to see it in a dark room etc.
     
  5. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    Yes, I can see it flickers.
    Sevenoaks are correct.
    ( I can't comment regarding Pioneer ).
     
  6. Mintguy

    Mintguy
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    Err... I'm sure the flickering wasn't due to the lighting. There were about 12 Plasmas in the showroom and the 42PWD5 was the only one that flickered.

    If there is a problem of flickering and buzzing it sounds like Panasonic have laid and egg.
     
  7. Tee Tee

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    My mate has a Series 5 Panasonic (silver, home version, connected via S-video). Absolutely stunning picture (both off Sky and DVD) BUT there was a definite flicker which I noticed immediately. Tended not to notice it so much after prolonged viewing but it was certainly still there. I don't consider myself particularly sensitive to this sort of thing (eg. I have my monitor set to 75 Hz and notice no flicker on that). Now, I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree, but don't plasmas 'refresh' at 100Hz, therefore making flicker problems largely irrelevant? I'd be grateful if anyone does have a definitive answer to this one as I was poised to purchase said screen until this problem reared it's head!
     
  8. gringottsdirect

    gringottsdirect
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    flicker is relevant if it bothers you :cool:
     
  9. steelej

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    I didn't think plasma screens "Scanned" like regular TV's so the refresh rate was irrelevant. I can't remember where I read it, it was either a thread here or in the AVS forum.

    John.
     
  10. Dave777

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    Steelej does your 5 series seem to flicker for you. Any other 5 series Panny owner care to give their views of it in the home?
     
  11. steelej

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    I've had it for 3 weeks now and haven't noticed any flicker

    John.
     
  12. Jon Weaver

    Jon Weaver
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    I can't really help out here.. But I do admit that when i have seen demos of the Series 4 in shops, I definataly saw flicker.

    However, on the short test that I did on my Series 5 (before I put it back in the box), I didn't see any flicker at all.

    I really hope that this isn't a problem, as I am REALLY susceptible to flicker, and if its there, I am going to see it!
     
  13. Gliese 581c

    Gliese 581c
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    I tried saying in the other thread about the dual/single scan methods being used between the PWD4 & 5.

    I said the D5 was basically worse off as panasonic has gone down this cost cutting route.

    I got asked to prove my findings and basically flamed by a number of people as if I was talking *****e.

    Mintguy : I'm glad someone else like yourself as noticed the negative differences of the D5 over the D4.
     
  14. Dave777

    Dave777
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    Arcam without starting things up again, I understand that in your opinion the D4 is better than the D5. I've read lots of posts about the D5's better colour/phosphors and 10bit etc and am undecided. I've yet to see a D5 and only seen silver 4 series set up poorly. So this is why I need all you owners out there to give your opinions. I have the choice of a D5 or D4 both (charcol/black) and can't decide. The D4 is cheaper!
     
  15. Gliese 581c

    Gliese 581c
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    Dave : Course, I dont wanna start things up again either..that thread is best left where it is in my opinion.

    What I can say if your interested is...no matter what set you decide to buy, both will be stunning. They are amazing plasmas and when they are setup properly they will blow you away, I'm sure of that !

    The differences will only be slight as far as quality is concearned. Its a tough decision deciding between the 2, but an envious one. I'm sure there are a lot of people that would like the choice, if they could afford it, of what plasma to buy and actually being able to buy one.

    Dont let it be a headache to you on deciding. Have fun and check them both out if you can :)

    In my opionion : If the D4 is a lot cheaper ? Then I'd go for that, will the differences between them actually warrant you paying that bit extra ? (Thats only my opinion though :))
     
  16. Dave777

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    As you say its a great position to be in . Its just so hard when you can't see these things set and running PROPERLY! I'm going out and about on Wednesday in that London and seeing what I can see. While the wife looks at the clothes in John Lewis guess where I will be!:D
     
  17. Paul D

    Paul D
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    aRcAm, have you seen both the 4 and 5 series at the same time?
    If so what were your findings?

    Or seeing that you own the 4 series and i assume know it's picture well, what about the 5 series did you find wrong with the picture?.

    I'm about to buy a plasma this week, and will get a chance to see both the 4 and 5 side by side first. What should i look out for apart from the above mentioned flicker?.

    If like you keep saying that the 5 is inferior, then i won't be buying one. But did you base your findings purely on spec sheets or through extensive testing?

    As you can understand, buying a plasma is not a cheap exercise and i want to get it right first time.
    But unfortunately many people tend to be biased to something once they have spent a lot of money, if only to console themselves that they were right etc.

    So if you prove to be right i will thank you now for the good tip off!: ;)
     
  18. Dave777

    Dave777
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    Fulabeer I can't wait to hear your findings of the 2 side by side as I'm in the similarly enviable position as you:)
     
  19. dvdbrowser.com

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    Is this flicker evident on the Hi-def panny model?
    Does it employ the same cheaper single scanny thing?
     
  20. Guest

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    add my tuppance

    I have the silver Panny version 4 model. and have seen no flicker whatsoever.

    the only flickering smiles on peoples faces when they see it
     
  21. steelej

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    If I can add again, when I first demoed my potential plasma purchase it was a 4 series, I bought a 5 series. I demoed it using the same DVD player I have a the moment and a number of my favourite DVD's. From the 4 to the 5 I could see absolutely no visible differences, the picture looked just as bright, clean and flicker free exactly like my 5 series does right now.

    Like it has been said before You Can't Lose, a 4 or 5 will bring many smiles to anyone who see's it, so I really would not be worrying about these details. Just because Panasonic have a new way of doing something doesn't mean that it's worse than before, they may just have refined their build process and don't need a dual scan thingy, which in turn has made it slightly cheaper, who knows? If companies didn't get better at buildling things with each generation we'd still all be watching little round black and white TV's :)

    John
     
  22. Mintguy

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    I really want to pin down whether the flicker witnessed by my g/f is due to the build quality of the unit or whether it's due to the set up. For those owners of the 42PWD5 you may be extremly happy with the unit, and in the short term you'll be happy as larry. However this may be an important question in the long term. You may not be sensitive to the flicker but some of your friends may be.

    If this flicker is genuine then it's a real problem for me. I'm not sensitive to it but the person I share my home with IS. This means that what I thought was the best quality/value plasma on the market is not a viable option.
     
  23. Tee Tee

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    Mintguy, agree with what you're saying. It really would be useful if someone could point out if this flicker problem (if it is a problem!) is down to set up (different inputs have different characteristics?) or a more fundamental issue. I have to say though, that flicker aside, the picture on the D5 is jaw droppingly good.
     
  24. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    DVDbrowser

    The TH-42PHD5BX is a Dual Scan display - look at its brightness figures; way down on the PWD model.

    I'm going to try and get a PWD4 and a PWD5 side by side next week to see how this 'flicker' manifests itself on the new PWD5 models - its not something I have had any negative reports on from customers who have taken delivery of PWD5 displays!

    It is possible (so I am told but not been shown how so far) to put the PWD5 into a pseudo dual scan mode - you loose about a third brightness but maybe if some owners do have an issue with flicker on some sources this would be a good compromise.

    I asked Panasonic about the 'build it for less' issue and they stated that the 5 Series costs the same as the 4 Series to build - the new video processor and phosphors are more expensive than the ones utilised on the 4 Series.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  25. sirjohnofbalham

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    I saw the 4 and 5 (silver versions) running side by side in Selfridges and although viewing conditions were not ideal, I could detect no difference in the picture quality between the two models whatsoever. I think if there are any differences they will be very subtle and more likely to be imagined than real.

    Both were showing Gladiator on DVD but I suspect only composite connections were being used.
     

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