HDTV lifeline for Sony and other non HDCP TV's!

Discussion in 'Sony TVs Forum' started by jimsan, Mar 19, 2005.

  1. jimsan

    jimsan
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    I'm not sure if this article has been posted anywhere on the Forum before, but I think it will be of great interest to anybody out there who may have purchased a non-HDCP enabled LCD.

    It seems that Sony have taken it upon themselves to try and wangle a deal from Sky to broadcast a fairly high quantity of next years HDTV in such a way that Sony HDTV STB's can output the signal via standard Component connections!

    The article goes on to explain that this may be slightly misleading as it bypasses HDCP protocols...

    Have a read...
    http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/article/ds19787.html

    Jimmy
     
  2. square_eyes

    square_eyes
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    Sony's press release reads to me more like a weak attempt to whitewash itself in the face of hordes of angry consumers demanding their money back.

    And anyway, the idea that anyone would be pleased to convert a high quality digital image to analogue seems rather odd to me.
     
  3. jimg

    jimg
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    It does not actually mention component anywhere, I guess they will be still outputting a SD picture?
     
  4. ianh64

    ianh64
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    I think it is Sony's attempt to try and tell their customers that their sets will still work with Sky's HD service. What they fail to point out is that you will only get SD (which will still give better PQ than their standard SD service not that it would be difficult) when watching copy protected material.

    I would imagine that initially SkyHD will be sold to sports fans where HD will be beneficial for large screen use - they will probably see better PQ images in their local pub and want it at home. In this case, the majority of the source material will be Sky's own and it would be daft for them, except for large PPV events, to enforce copy protection and thus the mandatory requirement for HDCP between STB and display.

    But eventually, their HD service will require a wider choice of material and their hand will be forced for them. But Joe Punter will still get a picture and it will still be better PQ than current Sky service, albeit in SD. For 99% of the Sky population, I am sure this would be fine. If it was not, they would not be existing subscribers.
     
  5. Flimber

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    I don't believe that all HD content will be HDCP. They need to tease and tempt people after all so it's not unbelievable that HD content will be available via a component/VGA output, AFAIAC.

    Read 'twixt the lines of the Sony press release: they're not saying all/unlimited HD content, are they ? They're being crafty and possibly intentionally trying to mislead consumers, IMO.

    Mike.
     
  6. jimg

    jimg
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    There was an article in the Sunday Times about HD TV and did mention HDMI and HDCP, unfortunately they put it alongside a photo of a Sony LCD. I emailed the author and to my surprise he said he would put a clarification in the following weeks edition, which he did. He also got a guy from Sony to reply and the chap insisted that all Sony screens were hi-definition, correct but not really playing fair to all those readers who do not understand the distinction!
     
  7. jimsan

    jimsan
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    Correct me please if I'm wrong, but would the Sony STB not be able to output 720p and 1080i as a High Def analogue signal via its component leads....? Not as good as a digital signal, but not far off...

    Jimmy
     
  8. Faust

    Faust
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    I have had this confirmation from Panasonic if it helps.

    "Sky have confirmed that they will be including component out on their first generation STB's is welcome news and widens the spectrum of compatible products".
     
  9. Flimber

    Flimber
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    Component output is only part of the story. The issue is whether the unit will pass all broadcasted HD content down it.

    Mike.
     
  10. jimg

    jimg
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    Exactly, no one has said that any HD will be output thru component? If I am wrong then please point to a unambiguous statement to the contrary. :confused:
     
  11. Faust

    Faust
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    Well from what Panasonic indicated, they are anticipating that to be the case. I think they would have to be most careful in making such a statement if they weren't pretty sure of their ground.
     
  12. jimg

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    Beware of SPIN! Again it does not say HD, sure it might have component, but it probably will be SD. Sorry, as a retired IT company owner of far too many years, I know from experience that you have to ask a clear, direct question and insist on a clear, direct answer when evaluating new products. Otherwise you get hype, hope or just bullsh!t.
     
  13. Flimber

    Flimber
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    Is it so far-fetched to imagine Sky putting out a HD but non-HDCP 'teaser channel' ? That would still fit between the lines of these third-party company statements, wouldn't it ? And it would certainly pass down component if Sky allowed it. And are the Beeb going to be HDCP ?

    Mike.
     
  14. mike7

    mike7
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    What people have grown used to is the ability to record programmes in order to view them at a more convenient time. This is a fundemental fact of busy lifestyles. This is achieved by video recorders and more recently digital recording devices. Surely if programmes were subject to HDCP by default we can eventually wave goodbye to this facility.
     
  15. ianh64

    ianh64
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    Come on guys. Listen up. Is is not the broadcaster that is dictating HDCP or not, it is the source owner. As far as Sky, BBC etc is concerned, they can do what they like with their own material, footy etc and will probably transmit it, at least initially, without the copy protection flag set so that the STB will not encrypt its output using HDCP. But if they buy in material, films, soaps, sport, etc etc and the source owner tells them it can't be copied, then sky must broadcast with the copy flag set otherwise they will be in breach of their license. Infact the copy protect flag may even be pre set in the digital data stream of purchased source material so Sky will have no choice. Ironically, in the case of Sony, their distrubution side of their business will be letting their product side down.

    As for recording material, the copy flag determines what you can do with the material. Since the Sky HD service will effectively be a Sky+ replacement, I am sure that the copy flag will be set to allow record once so the harddisc recording will remain as it is. The only difference is that you will not beable to archive programmes stored on the hard disc.

    -Ian
     
  16. mike7

    mike7
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    Point taken Ian, but so much of our tv these days is made by independant companies even many BBC programmes. I would suspect after the debate on the future of the TV Licence recently that this position is going to increase and the decision to protect/not to protect is going to be out of the hands of the broadcaster as you say. If the public are to be expected to understand all this they need to know where the lines are drawn. It would be a mistake if the only way that programmes can be 'temporarily saved' is by Sky monopolising the market.
     
  17. Faust

    Faust
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    Well, my own personal opinion is that not only will you be able to record onto the next generation of Sky+ boxes, but I suspect that you will also be able to use the Copy feature as you do now, otherwise the general public are just not going to go for a system that gives them less functionality than they already enjoy.
     
  18. ianh64

    ianh64
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    I would imagine that for copy protected material the analogue outputs will carry SD and/or macrovision. I do not know whether there will be many generally available devices that will beable to record HD component, but an SD output will fulfil 99.9% of the populations archive requirements - ie to VHS/DVDR(W). I would not like to hazard a guess what the analogue output will be for non CP material - I guess it should be user selectable SD/HD otherwise there would be little use of a HD analogue output if you could not record it. I hardly think that the ability to record HD analogue component will be high on the list of required features for blu-ray/HD-DVD manufacturers.

    -Ian
     

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