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HDTV ? - don't know what all the fuss is about !

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by Nick_UK, Jan 16, 2005.

  1. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    I keep reading about people being so worried about their plasma being "HDTV capable", so I decided to see what my Hitachi plasma could do, when fed from a HDTV source.

    I downloaded a copy of the HDTV trailer for "The Fokkers" in Divx, burned it onto CDR, and played it on my Asus Digimatrix PC through my Hitachi 5300 at 1024 x 768 resolution.

    I waited to be stunned - I wasn't ! Yeah it was OK, marginally better than what I've seen with DVD's on the same screen. Sure, HDTV is undeniably slightly better than SD, but I'll wait to see how much it's going to cost. I suspect (at a minimum) it will require a new Sky box, more Sky subscriptions, and a new HD DVD player. From what I've seen so far, I don't think I'll be rushing to sign up.

    I'll try playing the clip through my projector next, and post the results in the DLP PJ section, but (quite frankly) I am not expecting to be "blown away" :)
     
  2. phillfyspoon

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    Let me just say divx is crap. they are encoded at a very low bitrate and are only 720p not the full 1080. Get a proper HD vid which are encoded at 30mbps or WMV from microsoft
     
  3. matt bellamy

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    this has probably been answered before but what difference will HDTV make on a SD plasma such as the panny pw7?
     
  4. hornydragon

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    very little it is DVD + a bit extra........ AV-sales have it running through a veira if you want to see it.....
     
  5. johndon

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    Nick,

    You might want to try some of the 1080i WMV clips from the Microsoft website.

    I've tried them, feeding my 5300 a resolution of 1920*1080 (30hz interlaced) and the results were stunning.

    John
     
  6. tradesman

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    correct me if I'm wrong but I was of the oppinion you could only watch HDTV via the DVI or HDMi input on a plasma not got one myself yet but delivery soon I hope

    regards jack
     
  7. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Johndon : I'll try it, thanks :)

    Tradesman : You can feed 1024 x 768 via the VGA/XGA port on any TV that has one. The connection won't be digital (so you may see a marginal increase in noise), but you will see a hi-def picture.
     
  8. nightsoil

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    Correct and the DVI must support hdcp for it to work.
     
  9. tradesman

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    thanks Nick UK & nightsoil for your answers I can see I've a lot to catch up on with the diffrent inputs etc
     
  10. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    XGA ports also support hi-def - if they didn't, your PC wouldn't work at 1024 x 768 and beyond.
     
  11. gizlaroc

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    If the source is good it will make loads of difference.
    Comparing the DVD version of U-571 with teh D-Theater version at 1080i and the difference is not subtle.

    If you have a read on the avsforum alot of the guys say that there is not much in it between an SD panel and the same panel but the HD version.
    Whilst in New York in the spring I was watching an HD feed running on the PW6 and the HD6 and it is not until you get to within 6ft of the screen that you can really see the difference, and I sit about 10ft from my screen.
    And anything that is progressive or 480i tends to look a little better on a on the SD screen.
    However, if money is no object I would always go for the higher resolution panel, as you will always be thinking "what if..." ;)
     
  12. GarethH

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    I can see the artifacts in low bit rate wmv files and it annoys me. I have seen Two Towers and Gladiator running at 1080I and it was simply amazing!
     
  13. woodgaz

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    A good thread. I have been looking for answers on this for a while and I ahve some pretty basic questions.

    I have a PW6 so it looks like I am goosed either way. It doesn't have a DVI or HDMI. The DVI board you can get for it is fraught with issues and the HDMI board from the PW7 expressly states you can't use it with the PW6.

    As I understand it HDTV is at either 720p or 1080i.
    The resolution of my PW6 is 852x480. Presumably that is lines then columns. So when I watch a progressive scan dvd I assume I am watching in 576p?

    Is that lines?
    If so then I am also assuming that 720p should look a lot better?

    Presumably when I feed my screen with an input that is higher than the screen resolution ie when I try to play Halflife2 from my PC then the internal scaler will take it down to the best for the screen.

    Are my DVD's currently being scaled up therefore?
    Basic stuff I'm sure but I've not found a definitive answer so far.
    Cheers
     
  14. smultron

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    no, its 852 columns and 480 lines.
    If its PAL , then yes.


    On your ED Panel(480 lines) a little, on a HD Panel (>720 lines) hopefully a lot.

    No, they are scaled down.
     
  15. woodgaz

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    Of course there are more columns than lines!
    Its a rectangular screen!
    I guess that came about as refusal to accept that my £2,500 investment won't even show all the detail on a DVD!

    From what you have said then any input greater than 480 lines is going to be scaled down so there doesn't seem any point in getting a Hi def pack to put my Xbox through it at 720p?
    Thanks for the rapid response!

    I think the obvious thing is to hold onto my PW6 (which Im actually really happy with) and see how Hi def takes off.
    Then I can buy a hi def panel with built in freeview and HDMI in 3 years time when they are about £1000.... but we will all be scanning the horizon for the next big thing then I guess.
     
  16. richjthorpe

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    I though the Hitachis were ALiS panels and the maximum effective resolution is 512 since the lines are doubled somehow. If this is true, 768 is actually 384 lines or is it different through the VGA port ?

    Richie.
     
  17. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    Alis panels use a similar technique to conventional CRT's in that odd and even lines of pixels are addressed sequentially. This does not mean that the resolution of the display is halved. It simply means that only the odd or even pixel rows are lit at any given moment.

    This has a few advantages -

    1. Less chance of flicker on the screen
    2. The gaps between pixels are smaller, enabling larger pixel sizes, so brighter pictures.
    3. Since the duty cycle of any pixel is only 50%, a longer panel lifetime can be expected.
     
  18. richjthorpe

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    Interlaced right ?
    But if the panel addresses odds then evens then it would mean flicker would be more ? I'll read up on ALiS panels over the weekend methinks....

    Richie.
     
  19. Nick_UK

    Nick_UK
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    I think you'd better. One of the reasons for using interlaced pictures when TV started was for the avoidance of flicker at 50Hz.
     
  20. peezee

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    richjthorpe, if you are to read about ALiS on this forum I'd suggest you stay blind to any comment, direct or indirect, that ALiS screens only have a 512 vertical resolution (and you'll find quite a lot of these) coz' it's plain wrong (they have 1024 *physical* rows of pixels).

    Other than that I'd second what Nick_UK says in last couple posts about ALiS, plus their are other advantages -but disadvantages too, esp. on SD sources- that you'll probably find about thru reading.

    Only thing I'd add is, pls make sure you do much more watching/testing/comparing the Hitachi's than reading about the technology behind it - which TBH can hardly be translated into "am I going to like the Hitachi picture?"... ;)
     
  21. richjthorpe

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    OK, read on ALiS panels and I now understand that it is an interlaced system like that of the CRT and is not Progressive. Therefore I would have thought you would see some kind of flicker. Cannot confirm that because I haven't seen it by my own eyes.

    Also, from the AVSforum FAQs, ALiS panels downconvert 720p to 512....

    http://www.avsforumfaq.com/~plasma/#alis

    Should there be another thread opened to unearth the truths and lies about ALiS ?

    Richie.
     
  22. johndon

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    There was such a thread about a year ago and IIRC it didn't really come to any conclusion as even Hitachi didn't seem to know exactly how it worked.

    John
     
  23. Sprout Crumble

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    That makes you full of confidence in Hitachi and Alis doesn't it?

    To be fair, Hitachis seem to have a great picture and the new Fujitsu that everyone seems to be waiting for is an Alis one IIRC.
     
  24. MAW

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    Alis is best left with her clothes on, I think. It's true about the thread way back, got quite heated, yet no new info came out. Loads are very happy with their Alis pictures, equally many prefer progressive displays. The only thing that seems totally clear about the workings of an alis panel is how they treat 1080i, which is basically they do nothing, just display 1024 lines of it, clipping the rest. Any talk of downscaling to 512 and sending it twice is pure speculation, and I'd say rubbish in fact, having stared very hard at alis screens at various times. I don't know what they do, but it's not that.
     
  25. peezee

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    Yeah, ALiS screens work by activating odd lines and even lines alternately, so try to imagine they'd send the same picture twice but shifted down or up by one vertical line every 17ms... could make for an "interesting" visual effect indeed (I think our brain would puke at this, talk about headache... :eek: ).
     
  26. Nick_UK

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  27. peezee

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    Who is "you"? And why the useless suggestion?
     

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