Question HDR on a small screen

next010

Distinguished Member
Marketing gimmick.

A number of devices wont even support HDR on anything other than 4K displays and an LCD without local dimming is not going to deliver impactful HDR.

PC monitors 27" in size are the smallest LCD's with local dimming though its not as good as higher end TV's.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
The only benefit to having HDR on that screen is that it can tonemap properly so the colours don't look washed out and grey/green as they did on early non HDR 4K displays.

You won't actually get any real HDR benefits from it though so you can buy one without and just not use HDR.
 

JDPower

Standard Member
So if you had a choice between two virtually identical 24 inchers (Philips 24PFS6805 and 24PFT5505), but one was HDR for an extra £20, would you not bother?
 
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Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
Only if you had no choice but to use it for HDR.

If you can not use it for HDR, then do that and save the £20

EDIT - Things always change, so I suppose £20 is nothing really and you might as well have the compatibility if you want it.
 
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JDPower

Standard Member
EDIT - Things always change, so I suppose £20 is nothing really and you might as well have the compatibility if you want it.
That was sorta my thinking, but it's really confusing trying to find info online about how much effect it has, or if it has ANY effect, on a small non-4k screen. Hence the question here. I'm not bothered if it's not exactly proper HDR, but if it gives a slight bump in picture quality on relevant content then an extra £20 is nothing really.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
I'd be avoiding HDR full stop if you can.

All it will do is make the TV look a bit brighter but as there's no local dimming the entire screen will get brighter but without the contrast.
 

Sloppy Bob

Distinguished Member
I'm not so much flip-flopping as saying avoid using it for HDR but when you can't avoid using it for HDR it won't look awful like a non-HDR panel will, it just won't look like HDR really should.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Personally, I've only found adequate HDR performance on OLED screens.

LCDs are constantly having to fight against the backlight raising the blacks and on challenging scenes, it can completely ruin the picture. I can literally see the stress on the panel when it has to make specific decisions on which areas to dim and which to brighten up, and this is on high end FALD TVs.

Cheaper screens which have HDR without adequete dimming zones, I honestly see as missing a very vital element of HDR which is the reproduction of specular highlight detail and brightness. The increased colour gamut should still be there though...

But... I'd still pick the SDR version of the content on these screens over HDR because we know the SDR version is as close to the artists intent, whilst HDR is just really just a minefield outside of OLEDs (I believe they master content on OLEDs).
 

JDPower

Standard Member
Personally, I've only found adequate HDR performance on OLED screens.

LCDs are constantly having to fight against the backlight raising the blacks and on challenging scenes, it can completely ruin the picture. I can literally see the stress on the panel when it has to make specific decisions on which areas to dim and which to brighten up, and this is on high end FALD TVs.

Cheaper screens which have HDR without adequete dimming zones, I honestly see as missing a very vital element of HDR which is the reproduction of specular highlight detail and brightness. The increased colour gamut should still be there though...

But... I'd still pick the SDR version of the content on these screens over HDR because we know the SDR version is as close to the artists intent, whilst HDR is just really just a minefield outside of OLEDs (I believe they master content on OLEDs).
Good explanation, thanks. I shall be giving the HDR model the swerve :smashin:
 

heliocentric

Well-known Member
Good explanation, thanks. I shall be giving the HDR model the swerve :smashin:
Did you get the TV in the end? I'm trying to decide between these two models.

Only 24 inch TVs I can find that are full HD.

Also these are direct lit and not edge lit I believe? Which I prefer because less light bleed round the edges.
 

JDPower

Standard Member
Did you get the TV in the end? I'm trying to decide between these two models.

Only 24 inch TVs I can find that are full HD.

Also these are direct lit and not edge lit I believe? Which I prefer because less light bleed round the edges.
Yeah, I went for the non-HDR version. Mainly thanks to the comments here, and an increasing number of negative views on the new model's software (whereas the non-HDR model has a year's worth of solid reviews). Can't give an opinion on it as I've not got it in my hands yet (was waiting on Richer Sounds having it in stock, and then when it was in stock they made a cock up and sent the wrong thing, so won't have it till later this week)
 
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JDPower

Standard Member
How'd it go?
Hi, sorry for the delay replying, the room it was going in was being gutted and life got in the way. Got it up and running yesterday and initial impressions are quite good. The HD pic is very good for the price - sharp, good colour, good black levels (though there are a million different settings to tweak to get to your preferred end point).

A few minor negatives:

The SD picture is pretty poor, which is a given, but SD channels on the TV are noticeably worse than than the same channels through my Manhattan T3R (so not an issue for me as I'm using the latter).

Sound quality isn't great, also a given, but it's perfectly acceptable for regular TV watching. Bumping the bass setting up to max helps, and no distortion evident when doing so (or much bass evident either lol, but it does help). Awful sound for music though.

The guide is EXTREMELY basic in looks and function, which is strange as the menu screens throughout the rest of the TV are smart and well thought out. But the guide is detail/design free white text on pure black background, the guide on my 10 year old Humax was like a glimpse into the distant future compared to this. Also crappy design for the guide - you open the guide, it mutes the TV, there's no programme info shown in the guide, only programme titles, so you have to press the info button on any programme you want to know more about, which takes you back OUT of the guide to the TV channel you were on, unmuted, with a pop up on the bottom of the screen showing the info of the programme you were interested in, then when you close the info pop up are taken back to the muted TV guide. Bizarre thinking on the part of whoever designed it. Again, not a problem for me using the Manhattan, but I could see it being a real nuisance if I weren't

Finally, if using the feet to stand it on a surface (as opposed to wall mounting) there is no angle adjustment, which (if you're a perfectionist) is an issue if the TV is not at eye level as there is a slight drop off in contrast/colour levels when viewing from relatively small angles. And it is only slight, so like I say, if you're not a perfectionist, it won't be a bother. This is probably my biggest bugbear at present (a simple workaround for this would obviously be wall mounting with an adjustable bracket, but not really an option for me in the location it's in)

Overall, it's not perfect, but for the money I'm pretty satisfied and doubt anything else at this price/size would offer anything better.

Except for maybe an adjustable stand/feet! :mad: 😁
 
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JDPower

Standard Member
Oh and one other thing, according to the Philips website, the model (24pft5505) doesn't exist. Which I found out when trying to follow the convoluted procedure to check for updates (involves plugging USB stick into TV, then plugging into computer and clicking on the file on the USB stick to send ID to Philips site to obtain any update). Instead of taking you to the product page for updates, just takes you to the homepage. If you alternatively try to type your model number in the support search bar, the model isn't listed in the dropdown, and a search turns up nothing, so no support page to get updates from (if there actually ARE any, surely they updated that awful TV guide). This also makes registering your product impossible, as the same non-existence issue occurs in the dropdown menu there.

I suspect the 24pft5525 software would work as it SEEMS to be almost identical, but have emailed Philips for clarification, and for explanation on how someone is supposed to register a product they don't list (I could understand if it was an ancient model, but it's only a year old and still being widely sold)
 
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JDPower

Standard Member
Thanks @JDPower. Maybe the model up might've been better with try software then.

Any idea what kind of panel it uses? IPS, VA, TN?
Well the user reviews for the next model up were mostly slating the software when I was researching both models (presumably referring to the software for the smart features more than anything). Obviously I've not used the next model up, but if I were to choose, I'd choose the one I've got (the 5505) and avoid the risk of potentially slow laggy smart features (and I prefer not having them built in anyway).

Having lived with it for a couple of weeks now, I'm satisfied with it. It's not perfect, but it's good enough for 140 quids worth of TV, and full HD is a nice addition on a small screen (and the HD image is pretty decent). I'd say the worst thing about it is the crappy basic TV guide, I don't use it, but if I did it'd be annoying. I'll attach a pic so you can judge for yourself.

And a couple of pointers for settings (all personal taste, but worth passing on):

There are various "enhancements" in the advanced section of the picture settings menu. Almost all are best left off, with the exception of "Colour enhancement". I find this improves skin tones, only set it to minimum though, any higher than that and you'll have 'burn your eyes out' oversaturation everywhere. And "MPEG artefact reduction" slightly improves the blockiness on SD lower bitrate channels (eg Dave) without having any noticeable impact anywhere else. Also don't set "Sharpness" any higher than 3 (and make sure "Super resolution" is off in the advanced settings, as this massively oversharpens and the sharpness setting gives a better, more controllable, result than this "Super res" nonsense)

And I've no idea what sort of panel it uses, sorry.
 

Attachments

JDPower

Standard Member
And for the sake of anyone who finds this through a search looking for a way to update the 24PFT5505 - I managed to get a reply from an actual human at Philips, and as I suspected the software for the 24PFT5525 is exactly the same, so to update the 24PFT5505, use the updates for the 24PFT5525 here:


(I updated with it and it worked fine)
 

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