HDR benefits for projector

Bambadad

Novice Member
I'm pretty much done with setting up my 1st dedicated home cinema. Projector is a Cinemax P2 which I've ceiling mounted. Screen is a cheapie 133" duronic from Amazon which is actually really good.

The majority of my viewing is Netflix / Prime and I was wondering whether it's worth investing in a new amp which can pass through the HDR signal to the projector?

I currently have a Yamaha that supports 4K but not any of the HDR formats.

I know the advantages of HDR on an OLED but how does it translate to a projector?

I could potentially plug my firestick directly into the projector and use ARC for the audio, but I'm loath to fiddle around near the projector after the intense pain I had getting everything lined up!

Only other jobs left are new AV unit / shelf to fit the centre speaker and seating :).

IMG_20211101_210107.jpg
 

3rdignis

Active Member
Very nice.
As you said, run your hdr sources directly to projector for testing, then you can decide from there.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
I'm pretty much done with setting up my 1st dedicated home cinema. Projector is a Cinemax P2 which I've ceiling mounted. Screen is a cheapie 133" duronic from Amazon which is actually really good.

The majority of my viewing is Netflix / Prime and I was wondering whether it's worth investing in a new amp which can pass through the HDR signal to the projector?

I currently have a Yamaha that supports 4K but not any of the HDR formats.

I know the advantages of HDR on an OLED but how does it translate to a projector?

I could potentially plug my firestick directly into the projector and use ARC for the audio, but I'm loath to fiddle around near the projector after the intense pain I had getting everything lined up!

Only other jobs left are new AV unit / shelf to fit the centre speaker and seating :).

View attachment 1597995



The main advantage of HDR would be the colour gamut.

Otherwise HDR on a projector is a bit of a compromise and requires some good dynamic tone mapping to do the content justice.

It's not going to match the HDR impact and specular highlight impact of an OLED but it also has projectors own natural advantages.

To get really good HDR, you'll be looking at a Sony or JVC projector (one which has a native contrast to produce perceived brightness and darks during challenging scenes) alongside a dynamic tone mapping solution to put the panels to the test (Lumagen, MADVR HTPC or MADVR Envy).



In your situation, I'd say probably not. If anything, it might ruin the image. At the moment you're getting the SDR 4K versions which are probably superior in PQ than the 4K HDR non dynamically tone mapped versions. Most projectors which have HDR without DTM just have set static curves which are usually won't provide anywhere near what the creator intended and will make content generally just brighter (including the dark scenes and even wash out lighter scenes.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
btw the room looks gorgeous mate

how did u do that slat effect? its something I'm thinking of trying to do in my room. any chance of photos with the lights on too?
 

Bambadad

Novice Member
btw the room looks gorgeous mate

how did u do that slat effect? its something I'm thinking of trying to do in my room. any chance of photos with the lights on too?
Thank you. Pic with lights attached. The slats are from Naturewall and I'm really happy with how they've turned out. Great customer service too.

I'm using my small ex.bedroom amp as my big Yamaha doesn't do 4k. Will update at some point but in no rush as it sounds great and the HDR benefits as indicated may not be all that. Also looking to get a custom unit made to house all the kit, and at some point change the speakers over to Focal Chora or similar.
 

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kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
Thank you. Pic with lights attached. The slats are from Naturewall and I'm really happy with how they've turned out. Great customer service too.

I'm using my small ex.bedroom amp as my big Yamaha doesn't do 4k. Will update at some point but in no rush as it sounds great and the HDR benefits as indicated may not be all that. Also looking to get a custom unit made to house all the kit, and at some point change the speakers over to Focal Chora or similar.
This room looks gorgeous. what did u use for the wooden effect? I am contemplating doing something similar but using a dark wood.

lovely room how tall are ur ceilings?
 

Pulse1

Well-known Member
I'm pretty much done with setting up my 1st dedicated home cinema. Projector is a Cinemax P2 which I've ceiling mounted. Screen is a cheapie 133" duronic from Amazon which is actually really good.

The majority of my viewing is Netflix / Prime and I was wondering whether it's worth investing in a new amp which can pass through the HDR signal to the projector?

I currently have a Yamaha that supports 4K but not any of the HDR formats.

I know the advantages of HDR on an OLED but how does it translate to a projector?

I could potentially plug my firestick directly into the projector and use ARC for the audio, but I'm loath to fiddle around near the projector after the intense pain I had getting everything lined up!

Only other jobs left are new AV unit / shelf to fit the centre speaker and seating :).

View attachment 1597995
Lovely setup, but i think TVs are for HDR and Projectors are still for SDR. Even the 4k HDR disc reviews on AVforums are done on a tv and not on a Projector so maybe your answer is in that?
 

Bambadad

Novice Member
Wall panels are from naturewall.co.uk. They do have other darker finishes too. They are veneered MDF strips on a thick felt acoustic backing, so glued and screwed (through the backing) to the wall. They sell individual slats as well. Room is about 3m at the highest point. I went for the short throw as the room isn't that deep and would've struggled to get more than 120" from a regular projector.

Thanks for the advice too on HDR. Not in any rush now to upgrade the amp 👍
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Personally the biggest benefit of HDR on a projector is the increase colour gamut rather than the dynamic range which is where a TV can benefit from much more. JVC are currently the leaders in adapting HDR to projectors in that they have dynamic tonal mapping built in to their latest machines (N and NZ range) but as with everything actual light output is key to delivering a convincing HDR image so in this the newer NZ range is better but quite a bit more expensive.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
As most people claim the increased color gamut to be the main benefit, it would be interesting to see how these people have calibrated and tracks that color gamut, in most cases with projectors its quite a funky wild west color gamut tracking with HDR, and then you just as well oversaturate a normal SDR image, as accurate reproduction is off the table anyway. Normally with streaming on projectors, you will benefit from getting the 1080P SDR stream, so you dont need the tone mapping and WCG mess.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
^Actually that's a good point about SDR 1080P streaming and depending on your internet speed you will also suffer less buffering or image quality degrading from time to time.
 

kenshingintoki

Distinguished Member
^Actually that's a good point about SDR 1080P streaming and depending on your internet speed you will also suffer less buffering or image quality degrading from time to time.
1080p streams are normally pathetically low bitrate compared to the 4K.

All streaming sites should have a 4K HDR and 4K SDR version of their content and let people decide which they prefer. I think its Disney+ who don't have 4K SDR versions of their films which sucks.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
1080p streams are normally pathetically low bitrate compared to the 4K.

All streaming sites should have a 4K HDR and 4K SDR version of their content and let people decide which they prefer. I think its Disney+ who don't have 4K SDR versions of their films which sucks.
Its likely more your streaming device that is a problem, im still using the OPPO 103D for 1080P Netflix streaming, it looks very close to blu ray quality, not so much if i use other devices, 4K generally looks horrible, as it needs to be tonemapped, and is full of highlight sparkles/ grain.
The trick is to only subscribe to the 1080P if you subscribe to the 4K there is no way to get the right 1080P SDR stream on most new streaming devices..
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
1080p streams are normally pathetically low bitrate compared to the 4K.

All streaming sites should have a 4K HDR and 4K SDR version of their content and let people decide which they prefer. I think its Disney+ who don't have 4K SDR versions of their films which sucks.
I genuinely can't say because my internet speed at home isn't great (currently 6MB), we are waiting for fibre to the door whilst the next month or two which should push us to 80-100MB. Currently I can't suffer buffering especially if someone else in the house is on YouTube etc so 4K especially can be bad so I don't know if I am ever getting the absolute best 4K possible.
 

alebonau

Distinguished Member
I genuinely can't say because my internet speed at home isn't great (currently 6MB), we are waiting for fibre to the door whilst the next month or two which should push us to 80-100MB. Currently I can't suffer buffering especially if someone else in the house is on YouTube etc so 4K especially can be bad so I don't know if I am ever getting the absolute best 4K possible.
good god thats a pathetic bit rate ! hope things are sorted for you soon. We dont have luxury of cable here... just hybrid fibre coax...but easily still hovers around ~100Mbps see screen shot of test just ran,

Screen Shot 2021-12-01 at 8.38.22 pm.png


so have no doubt be pretty pleased once hooked up. streaming quality is VERY good from likes of apple TV/movies, Prime, netflix, disney even the catch up services of our local FTA networks / britbox and such are pretty good too...

i have posted the odd screen shot at times of streamed stuff... it really is quite good and shouldn't be discounted... sure discs are still the pinnacle of picture and audio..but streaming is certainly a good source also these days for both SDR and HDR... much to enjoy...
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
good god thats a pathetic bit rate ! hope things are sorted for you soon. We dont have luxury of cable here... just hybrid fibre coax...but easily still hovers around ~100Mbps see screen shot of test just ran,

View attachment 1611843

so have no doubt be pretty pleased once hooked up. streaming quality is VERY good from likes of apple TV/movies, Prime, netflix, disney even the catch up services of our local FTA networks / britbox and such are pretty good too...

i have posted the odd screen shot at times of streamed stuff... it really is quite good and shouldn't be discounted... sure discs are still the pinnacle of picture and audio..but streaming is certainly a good source also these days for both SDR and HDR... much to enjoy...
It's the main reason why I have concentrated in buying discs and with my internet soon to be upgraded why I decided to look at a new PJ which arrived yesterday though won't be up and running until late next week at the earliest.
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
It's the main reason why I have concentrated in buying discs and with my internet soon to be upgraded why I decided to look at a new PJ which arrived yesterday though won't be up and running until late next week at the earliest.
May we know what projector you bought?
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
I will hold off until it's up and I post some images on the Movie Eye Candy thread. ;)
Do us all the favor of making a dual projector setup, so you can do a direct a/B comparison while you have 2.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Do us all the favor of making a dual projector setup, so you can do a direct a/B comparison while you have 2.
Would love to but the Christie takes up a heck of an amount of room. :laugh:
 
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Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
Would love to but the Christie takes up a heck of amount of room. :laugh:
Dont worry ill come over and help you set up the Epson on a box in the corner
 

Stridsvognen

Well-known Member
That would require using Keystone which would destroy the Epson's killer image. :D
Dont worry it has great lens shift, no excuse, its always possible to put it on a table or a box and get it perfectly aligned to the screen, takes 7 min, and would be a shame to miss the opportunity to do a direct comparison when having both an Epson and a JVC in the house.
 

Luminated67

Distinguished Member
Dont worry it has great lens shift, no excuse, its always possible to put it on a table or a box and get it perfectly aligned to the screen, takes 7 min, and would be a shame to miss the opportunity to do a direct comparison when having both an Epson and a JVC in the house.
:eek:
 

foghorn

Active Member

Looking at your light controlled cinema set up I think it will be a N7.

i have posted the odd screen shot at times of streamed stuff... it really is quite good and shouldn't be discounted... sure discs are still the pinnacle of picture and audio..but streaming is certainly a good source also these days for both SDR and HDR... much to enjoy...

Mucking about with the N7 since i got it a couple of weeks ago with streaming providers and find myself jumping between Panasonic 820. Xbox One X and Sky q. Still considering getting some other streaming device, if i can find one than can tick most of the boxes.

For example Apple TV on the xbox looks really good with 4K, been watching The Morning show looks great, yet Amazon Prime on the Xbox not so solid, for example i had a look at the opening episode of the new series The Wheel of Time opening scene which displays a lot of grain on the 4K HDR signal. Switch to the Panasonic and it displays in 4K HDR with a solid picture and no grain. Panasonic with Netflix pushes everything to HDR unless you switch the settings all the time.

Thinking back to my older JVC I wasn’t so picky with streaming services, but with the N7 or any higher end projector in my opinion it will show up a poor source material, good SDR streaming material looks very nice. Basically sh*te in sh*te out!
 

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