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HDMI Version 2.1 Specification Announced

Discussion in 'LCD & LED LCD TVs' started by Mark Hodgkinson, Jan 9, 2017.


    1. Captain Ron

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      I can think of one immediate good thing to come from HDMI 2.1. The cables that are guaranteed for 48GB/S will be perfect for HDMI2.0a systems to resolve any doubts about wether the cables can do 18GB/S or not. As for 8K. It's a laugh. I don't hear anyone complaining about lack of resolution from 4K at the cinema so why the hell do we need 8K for a domestic solution?! They're having a laugh I teel ya.

      I can understand the upping of the bandwidth for things like VR and frame on demand update feature is great for game latency. 48GB/S would allow some serious VR resolutions and frame rates to be supported but from what I can see today there is no practical reason for waiting for 2.1 if your target system feature set is 4K and all the features of UHD disc.
       
    2. Har-One

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      You might be cynical but it does not mean you are not right. Jesus, those specs change faster that I change my pants.
       
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    3. dazm41

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      and when 8k is here those uhd 8k disks will be taken from 4k upscaled disks and around and around we go
       
    4. geogan

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      Yeah 8k discs from 2k upscaled DIs! And if anyone questions the industry they will be told we are doing nothing wrong/immoral/illegal

      From what I can see this new spec is just for the use of industrial applications like trying to output onto giant video walls at events and stuff like that. Anyone with a single 4K home TV right now does not need this.
       
    5. aido

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      Any word on what new copy protection will be coming along with this as well - maybe HDCP 2.3 / 3.0? They're probably due a refresh too seeing as there are so many HDCP strippers on the market.

      HDCP overcomplicates things and that just causes problems for consumers who pay their hard earned while the pirates get around it easily.

      The HDCP license fees were lower than I expected though:
      https://www.digital-cp.com/sites/default/files/Notice_of_HDCP_2.x_Device_Key_Fee_Increase_0.pdf
       
    6. albani

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      hi
      I always use "QED" brand cables for HDMI and Digital-audio
       
    7. djkutasi

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      8K??? or even 4K?
      Am i the only one who thinks this is only marketing?

      I don't really see much content on these formats. In reality most people still happy with DVD quality and don't even have blu-rays or watch HD. It's sad, but true...
      These new features not really necessary also there is not a huge difference between 1080p and 4K. I can imagine the same thing between 8K and 4K...
      People buy 4K TVs from stores because they see nice demos there, but in normal domestic use i don't see an advantage having a 4K display. The technology is here for years, but where are is the content?
       
    8. Chester

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      Don't forget the HDMI interface isn't just used in domestic applications, but it also competes in the commercial world (although not really designed to). I can see the aforementioned applications making good use of HDMI 2.1 (VR & gaming, etc) quickly. There are some attributes that might serve lesser resolutions well too, like eARC and the extended metadata in particular for HDR. But since display software/firmware is becoming better 'aware' of the presence of HDR, I don't see this as an issue really. In this country (Japan of course may be different), I''ll stand by my comment that HDMI 2.0a will suffice for many years to come; but it's good that it's defined today so applications can make good reliable use of it in the coming years. I certainly wouldn't pin a purchasing decision on the inclusion of HDMI 2.1 today!
       
    9. tiberian9

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      Apart from the fact it has been superceded by HDMI 2.0b.
       
    10. Chester

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      Everything moves on.
       
    11. witchdrash

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      Just wish it wasn't every five minutes, had to replace 3 av receivers so far because of hdmi updates, their ability to drive speakers was never an issue, well maybe for the first, but the others were fine.
       
    12. Chester

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      Dude, I don't believe you. The HDMI updates were, for sure, not the reason you were enticed to upgrade, but a particular application or configuration that you required. For example, being able to view 3D or to hear DTS-HD Master Audio or something. If a newer HDMI specification is required to meet that criteria, then it is what it is, unfortunately.

      I guess no-one is going to come up with a modular AVR where an HDMI board can be swapped out when they can milk us for a whole new AVR! If they did, they'd milk us for the concept!
       
    13. Isaac82

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      People are getting very caught up on the 8k mention, you have to remember that what they've really done is increase the bandwidth, a lot, which was needed, a lot. They know that just saying that doesn't capture people's imagination so they give examples of what you can achieve at that bandwidth, like 8k at 60hz.

      I have a ks7000 and play pc games on it. Sadly with HDMI 2.0 you don't have the bandwidth for 4k@60hz@10bit, so either Res or colour depth has to be sacrificed. Not good for HDR gaming.

      Personally even though I just bought a set for the first time in about 5 years, I will be tempted to upgrade by a TV that supports variable refresh rate and higher than 60hz. Guessing we'll see those next year.
       
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    14. witchdrash

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      How do you mean I don't believe you, of course it was to get newer features, I never said it wasn't, but more often it was driven to maximize the display I had purchased, so instead of upgrading one component you end up having to alter your entire chain because of a change to the spec. For example I replaced my tv with a 3d one, it came with a 3d blu ray player and free specs, same with the 4k tv I bought over New year, each time, because of my set up, if I want to use that stuff I have to replace my av receiver, it's incredible frustrating.

      I don't mind upgrading gear, I just hate ending up in a situation where I end up having to replace everything each time.

      I have literally nothing else in my life that works in the same way. I find it frustrating and incredibly expensive and more than a little anti consumer.
       
      Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
    15. Chester

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      @witchdrash I understand what you're saying that you felt that some applications may have forced you down the upgrade path when otherwise you're more than happy with the performance of your system, but there's often more than one way to crack a nut. For example, for some time now a lot of BluRay players have twin HDMI outputs to cover off just this kind of problem. And then in some cases it can't be avoided, for example many years ago when I upgraded my Arcam AVR350 so I could listen to high-def audio, without needing multi-channel analogue connections, which in my tiny rack would be a shambles!

      I also don't see this as anti-consumer. We have a lot of choice today, in fact we're spoilt for it. Whilst some technology can be incredibly complex, not intuitive at all, expensive and down right irritating when it goes wrong, there's another couple of things to consider. Not to upgrade; if you're happy with the performance you have, consider not upgrading, or perhaps postponing it until you're happy that your current investment has run its course and you've had a reasonable return on it. Or decide not to play; perhaps the upgrade route takes you down a path you don't want to go or consider unreasonable, so you could choose not to buy in to this technology, or wait for the inevitable successor!

      If you do decide to bound into the cutting edge, I can't remember another time where there has been more choice, and this does include deciding if and how you want to implement a particular application. Hopefully this demonstrates how I believe we're not forced into upgrading, unless it's our own choice to use an application that requires certain technologies or systems in place that don't reside on current equipment, and, cannot be worked around. For me, unfortunately it's limited funds that shapes the day, so I need long ROI to justify any upgrade, and more often than not that means simply going without.
       
    16. H3 Digital

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      They are just making sure that the cables keep up with where they expect hardware to be going, 8k may sound silly for home consumers now but 4k sounded silly when most people had standard definition.
       
    17. witchdrash

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      To be fair I was thinking about this a bit more last night, and I suspect it's more to do with my set up, the tv and projector are driven as separate zones from my receiver, which is in the cupboard under the stairs, so I can't use the twin out because the cables are buried in the wall, so it's probably just as much the nature of my set up, that I either run it through the tv direct, with the tv's speakers, or through the receiver to run it through the speakers, but doing both without new holes in the walls isn't possible, maybe if I get a chance I should run a hdmi cable back to the cupboard so I can run an audio return in the future.

      Of course that doesn't help if the next standard of HDMI requires some new cable...
       
    18. Joe Fernand

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      Goldorak said '2.1 is a big deal for me Andy' - it's not :)

      As Andy says look for the Features you require and ignore Version numbers!

      FW Upgrade paths are generally very limited where HDMI is concerned and folk who hold out for their Display being upgraded are usually disappointed by whatever limited Feature set is eventually released.

      Joe
       
    19. Isaac82

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      You're just arguing semantics really. This new hdmi version allows new features.
       
    20. andy1249

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      HDMI 2.1 requires hardware in the form of a HDMI 2.1 chipset. This is considerably different in terms of bandwidth and circuit design.
      Obviously this cannot be done with downloadable software.

      Even if you could , or if there were a replaceable module you could get, this would be pointless unless the TV or device supports the new features which again also rely on hardware.

      HDMI ports get data from source to sink, from A to B.
      Even if you could upgrade the port to the newer wider bandwidth spec, this is useless unless the Device can do something with that data.

      There are no 8K panels or content yet.
      There are no HFR sets yet.
      The only thing in the spec likely to be used soon is eARC ( will pass HD audio codecs over ARC) but that will require devices with the hardware and software to support it.

      So, summing up, you must shop for features supported by your device.
      The HDMI chipset version number does not dictate what your device supports or what your device is able to do..
      The hardware spec of your device determines that.

      THe 2.1 spec only indicates possible future features.
      Until devices come along with those features , its irrelevant.
       
    21. Joe Fernand

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      As per Andy's post above - saying an HDMI port is HDMI Version 'X' means nothing as that gives you no indication of which Features of HDMI hardware Revision X the port actually supports.

      I have three HDMI sockets on the side of my LG TV - I could say they are all HDMI version 'X', that doesn't then explain why only one of the sockets is ARC enabled or why the ports react differently to some Source devices/signal formats.

      Joe
       
    22. Isaac82

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      I've never said somehow upgrading hdmi version on an existing set is going to give you something, but the fact is that this new spec is important as it will allow for some very important improvements, especially in gaming.
       
      Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
    23. Goldorak

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      I nearly missed this post with my name mentioned. I read very good points about @it is good enough vs @it is more than just 8k and about bandwidth

      While I understand all the points, I maintain that considering how long I keep my TVs, I prefer a set that can handle hdmi2.1 to be a bit more future proof.

      Right or wrong, if I can get it ? Why not?

      However, my main decision was never completely driven by hdmi upgrade or HFR. For me, correct color mapping and accuracy, upscaling and nits brightness/volume is far far far more important. Since the hdmi 2.1 just been announced and we already have strong evidence that some manufacturer are upgrade proof (pana oled confirmed via a discussion between Steve and pana. You just need the manufacturer to plan for it with right brandwith and chipset obviously), hope Sony or lg will be upgrade ready too :)
       
      Last edited: Jan 14, 2017
    24. andy1249

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      You may get a feature or two added, but the physical chipset within your device is 2.0 and always will be. That cannot be changed with software.
      "Upgrades" like this have happened before.
      The big new add with 1.4 was 3D.
      Sony added the feature to the PS3...the chipset remained 1.3b.
       
    25. Goldorak

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      Thank you for this. Useful.

      I am just Hoping with a big H that manufacturer will preempt the move and plan right hdmi 2.1 chipset/spec for 2017 based on the information/spec they have now

      Good news is thanks to all of you in big parts, I don't care anymore really about hdmi 2.1. Just nice to have

      I waited years (very embarrassing, my Toshiba TV is over 10 years. I don't even have a kuro to save the appearances !!!) and I am finally ready and happy to jump !!
      There will never be a perfect time or TV but more than good enough for me..., I can see my Sony or lg in my little place and as happy as a kid waiting for santa :)
       
    26. Goldorak

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    27. Dunners

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      *Puts on cynical hat*
      For those who haven't 'seen it all before', be aware that almost all manufacturers will build a product for the single lowest amount possible to achieve its specs, a level of reliability they are comfortable with.
      It's one of the reasons they're profitable. If you look at a lot of the AV companies out there right now, you'll see many are struggling. When you're struggling, just how many resources do you put into making sure older generations of products are compatible vs making new products you can sell?
      Even if a company pitches themselves as top end, most people buy with price as a consideration and even more won't know to research the on-going compatibility with HDMI 2.1.


      Keep in mind when AVR's listed DTS:X as a spec.
      Most manufacturers spec'd their receivers with the minimum level of components / DSP capabilities to achieve the spec. Then, when DTS lifted the minimum spec, they weren't able to comply for a long time. This lead to a lot of annoyed customers, but eventually most of these issues were solved - however, it was very late.

      Personally, I predict a LOT of threads like "When will Sony make my UHD TV HDMI 2.1 spec?" Or "when will Denon give my AVRX1200 HDMI 2.1 across all inputs"?

      Yay?
       
    28. Chester

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      That's just called quality management dude. No matter what the industry is, everyone does it. Why massively over spec something for a particular function or role; it just costs more money, takes more material, can be over engineered, etc etc. That represents little or no return on investment, or worse! I realise your concerned about the companies that barely scrape by because they can set quality levels too low, well this is where the early adopter possibly gets burned, but that's always a risk anyway (HD-DVD anyone).

      And that's one major reason why these forums are so great, because we talk about it and can expose the detail. I've learned to have patience (never used to!) and read up on real world deployments, and that often tells different stories to the review that lasts just a few weeks or so.
       
    29. Toon Army

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      I'm confused as this article states " Dynamic HDR would let each scene look its best. HDMI 2.1 enables Dynamic HDR, but it also needs to be present in the content to work " in relation to HDR10. It states elsewhere that HDMI 2.0 can already manage Dolby Vision. So does 2.0 manage dynamic metadata in HDR10?
       
    30. Goldorak

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      Dolby vision found a way to handle HDR dynamic metadata within current hdmi 2.0 spec
      HDR 10 dynamic (the open source one) will need hdmi 2.1
      Steve wrote an article just today about Samsung and how they demonstrate one variation of HDR 10 dynamic
      Samsung demonstrate dynamic metadata at CES 2017
      His article explain it well and how dv future will dépend how indispensable they will become in the end to end process...
       

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