HDMI Pass through on a Pioneer VSX 2021-Help!

Can skyhd be upgraded via software / firmware to enable hdmi-cec?
 
And furthermore will all current hdmi 1.4 amps do this? Denon / yamaha / onkyo. Will they all need hdmi control compatible devices to be connected for standy pass through to work?
 
I don't know for sure but I think it's more than a software update as the old fat ps3s can't do hdmi connect but the new slim ps3s can, even when both have the same software.

As for other amps, I've heard people saying some fair better than others. I'm guessing a lot of the problem comes from the handshaking and stupid anti piracy regulations that were forced into hdmi standards.
 
This has actually just put me right off getting a Pioneer (which I kind of had my heart set on for Apple compatibility), don't think I could cope with the WAF nightmare of her finding herself unable to watch the telly if she couldn't get the amplifier switched on.

In terms of alternatives Onkyo 809 manual is very clear that you have all three of Mark's options described above to choose from. So even if it doesn't signal detect the Sky box I could programme it to always default to the main Sky box thus keeping the wife happy.

Denon manual I read (3312 I think) looked to be same as the Pioneer or at least didn't actively suggest it could do anything else.

Haven't checked Yamaha (Onkyo ranked ahead as I know the home automation element is easier / seems more popular).
 
Ueap, fair enough, but we want the airplay which the onkyo doesnt have....
 
I totally disagree with this, SkyHD which is the only recording device i use, records in standby.

What annoys me is that a lot of pioneers uk customers will have Sky and its not compatable with their amp because of the way they have designed it! if they have put signal monitoring on just 2 or 3 of the hdmi inputs no one would have this problem !
Of course it records in standby. It also sends a signal over the HDMI output whilst doing so, so that you can monitor it. This is all exaclty as you'd want and expect. The point is that you can monitor it, but were your amp to be so stupid as to automatically switch to any input based solely on signal presence on that input, you would be forced to watch what you were recording, something that is hardly going to get the manufacturer any kudos!

One could yell at the HDMI organization for specifying that CEC support per se is an optional feature, and hence Sky could legitimately save development expense by not implementing it.

It is of course a pity that Pioneer didn't choose Onkyo's implementation (all current models from 509 and up) of supporting an HDMI Through setting with all possible modes (off / auto / specific / last).
 
It's also a pity Onkyo didn't include AirPlay on their receivers. Otherwise I would have happily bought a 709 or 809 and not needed to ask my original question. A pity all round really :thumbsdow
 
The apple tv is a better option as it will do video as well as audio, pioneer air play is good but apple tv is better if you want to display your video's, pictures and you tube.
 
Seconded, built in Airplay would have been nice (assuming it source switches) but frankly I want an AppleTV there anyway for the video / photo streaming so I don't consider it a major loss.
 
With the apple tv added to the onkyo, can airplay be sent to a second zone? The pioneers can do this....
 
Haven't looked in detail as I doubt its something I'd use but I think so. Can't see any suggestion in the manual that you're limited as to what sources you can send out to other zones. It wouldn't do different Airplay streams to different rooms, but then I doubt the Pioneer does either.
 
No, only limitation is that it has to be an analog source. Will have a look at the apple tv to see if it has analog outs and if it outputs audio over them as well as the hdmi....

The apple tv has its own built in wifi, can the onkyo use it or do u need to give the onkyo a separate ethernet connection? Does the onkyo 609 or 709 hdmi support ethernet?
 
Starting to really consider returning the pioneer. I only got it just befor xmas and it hasnt been out of the box or switched on etc. hopefully peter tyson will do something for me if i give them a call...im sure they sell the onkyos so theyre getting a sale either way...
 
Nitro626 said:
The apple tv is a better option as it will do video as well as audio, pioneer air play is good but apple tv is better if you want to display your video's, pictures and you tube.

Hmmm, no analog out with apple tv second gen, so it cant send audio to zone 2 - useful if ur putting second zone in dining room for music during dinner parties etc, which i'll will b doing, although prob only use it a dozen times a year or so, but still usefull. Also the apple tv only outputs 720p....
 
AppleTV is pretty much the only option at the moment for Airplay streaming though. May get a 1080p upgrade this year but if so will always serve as an Airplay source elsewhere.

For Zone 2 this will do the trick:

FiiO D3 Coaxial/optical To R/L DAC Audio Converter

Okay we're now looking at £125 extra, but thats with extra functionality (photos and video). If you just wanted Audio you could go with an Airport Express which does analogue audio out of the box.
 
Apple tv 2 has an optical out or you can output on hdmi.

With the pioneer you could send either of those outputs to all zones together or separately
 
Hello there,
I have a similiar problem. I have a Pioneer plasma with a pdp-r05xe media receiver. It has been behaving perfectly until last week. When about a week ago a plugged my laptop in using hdmi and got it to show up on the TV. Unfortunately since then no other HDMI source is working - Blueray, Cable which were previously working are now not. I have done direct connections instead of through the amp to check this so I think it is an issue with the tv.

The interesting information to note is that my laptop still works with a direct hdmi connection so I cannot fathom the problem. I believe it shows up with a 576 resolution when i plug in the laptop. When trying blueray/ cable the TV shows 1125i with a blank black screen.

I appreciate any help offered.
P.S i have tried phoning pioneer customer services and unfortunately an automated voice tells me phone lines are engaged at customer services and to phone back another time.

Thank you
 
Nitro626 said:
Apple tv 2 has an optical out or you can output on hdmi.

With the pioneer you could send either of those outputs to all zones together or separately

Zone 2 on the pioneer is powered so u just need to connect speakers, no additional amp reqd. The pioneer still has only 1 dac so u have to give it an analog source for zone 2
 
Have now decided that zone 2 airplay output not that important plus girlfriend not keen on speakers in dining room. We r gonna get a sounddock for our iphones for the kitchen so we can put that in the dining room when we r entertaining, job done.

So now the pioneer has one less advantage for me over the onkyo and the issue of standby pass through comes to the fore again. Anyon have any suggestions as to a suitable replacement for the pioneer vsx2021. No point me going to denon as previously described in this forum it has the same hdmi cec protocols, hence it looks like the onkyo is my only option. I only have a 5.1 setup in the living room.

So should i go for the 609 or 709, any big differences? What have u guys seen the 709 for? I know the 609 is getting around the £400 mark. Will still need to add some apple related add on for airplay purposes. Would love to know if running ethernet cable from
Apple tv into onkyo would provide network capabilty to receiver for net radio etc. my bt home hub is in a different room so i really need a wireless solution or bridge. Had bought a netgear wnce2001 from amazon which picks up the wireless signal and puts it into the pioneer via ethernet getting power via usb. The onkyo has no usb on the back.
 
Lots of iPod docks these days with Airplay so worth considering when you're looking for the dining room as it would let you do multi-room.

You've come to the same conclusion as me on the Onkyo ;-) 609 to 709 is quite a leap in price, £380 - £600 ish

709 gets you more volume, second HDMI out, lots more things in and line level inputs and outputs if you ever wanted to add power amps I think comparison here: Onkyo | Product comparison

809 is another £100 and gets you 6.1kg of something... I'm assuming quality as it isn't much on paper (oh and two way remote I think)

AppleTV won't act as a bridge, although an Airport Express would. If your netgear thing works a USB power supply (iPod or phone charger) isn't expensive and you may well have a spare floating around.
 
wish I'd read this thread three weeks ago....before purchasing my 2021! ;) as daft;y assumed pass through worked....too late now!

Annoyingly I'm also having troubles when using my old original HDMI splitter which I'm still using to duplicate my SKY HD signal (as I need it for the main bedroom without the AMP being on), When I run the output from the splitter through into the 2021 (rather than simply bypassing it all together and running it straight to the TV) and then onto the TV I don't get a proper video image.

It's as if passing the SKY signal through both the splitter and then the 2021 so double duplication causes issues.

I get a brief flash of a video image and then nothing, but a blank black screen......Arrrgghh!! But the fact that I get the flash of quality image suggests that the connections and all decoding is being done correctly..

What am I missing? any thoughts?
 
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Mark.Yudkin said:
You haven't heard wrong. An autistic source device that abjectly refuses to tell the Pioneer when it's active cannot be switched by an amp that needs to know if and when there is something to be switched. Although there are amps that will simply always switch exactly one source, the Pioneer is designed to switch to the currently active source.

Signal presence switching as you suggest would be an absolute disaster. It would mean that the amp would switch to a recording device when it started timed recording, as such as device obviously sends a signal across its HDMI outputs, if only to permit monitoring. But a programmed recorder is hardly something you'd want to consider active when you're watching something else! Fortunately, nobody actually implements such signal presence switching.

Perhaps we should be petitioning pioneer to make the appropriate firmware changes so it can work like the onkyo. Then it would b perfect as it has airplay which the onkyos dont without adding apple tv etc
 
Perhaps we should be petitioning pioneer to make the appropriate firmware changes so it can work like the onkyo. Then it would b perfect as it has airplay which the onkyos dont without adding apple tv etc

Sounds like a great idea, assuming that that's possible....write away, I'll sign it
 
You can try a petition, but consider that Pioneer's behaviour is in complete and accurate conformance with the HDMI specification. From the HDMI 1.3a Specification (Nov 2006):
The use of non-CEC Switches is deprecated. These do not interpret nor send CEC messages and cannot be switched by CEC messages. Non-CEC Switches stop the correct operation of many CEC Features including mandatory Features such as One Touch Play. They also prevent other CEC-compliant devices from operating correctly.
...
A CEC Switch can be part of another device, such as a TV or audio amplifier with two or more HDMI inputs. Such a device shall provide its advertised functionality (eg TV or Audio System) in addition to its CEC Switch functionality. .... The power control for the Switch functionality should be separate from the power control for the other functionality so that the Switch can be active even when the main functionality is in Standby – see CEC 13.2.2 for more details.
...
For CEC Switches, there is a requirement to react on <Active Source> and <Set Stream Path> messages. Both of these messages require the Switch to change to the source device according to the physical AV stream path indicated by the CEC message. These mechanisms allow a source device to configure the Switches between itself and the TV to ensure that its output is displayed, or for the TV to specifically receive the output from a given device.
---
CEC 13.2.2 Feature Description
This feature is used to control the routing of the HDMI network, by controlling CEC Switches. In general whenever a device starts being streamed to the TV it shall send an <Active Source> message (see One-Touch Play in section CEC 13.1).

On receiving an <Active Source> message, CEC Switches between the device and the TV shall become active (if necessary) and switch (if required) to ensure that there is an active path from the device at the physical address specified to the TV. Devices which have other functionality and which also incorporate a CEC Switch, such as a amplifier with several HDMI inputs, need only bring the Switch part out of the Standby state as a response to the <Active Source> message, leaving the other functionality (eg amplifier) still in the Standby state.
An alternative specific / last channel routing comes at the heavy cost of preventing automatic switching of well-behaved sources. The HDMI Organization is trying to eliminate that option, requiring instead that source devices behave as per the specification. It really isn't Pioneer's fault that Sky build autistic sources - it is Sky you should be petitioning: Sky is at fault.
 
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Thought id have more chance with pioneer changing software than a new sky box design....

Ud wonder why manufacturors dont fully implement the hdmi spec, from previous posts seems apple is at fault also....
 
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