HDMI Pass through on a Pioneer VSX 2021-Help!

Discussion in 'AV Receivers & Amplifiers' started by Cyruszaydan, Dec 22, 2011.

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  1. Cyruszaydan

    Cyruszaydan
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    I would like to start by saying that I have tried to find the answer to my question(s) in previous threads and on the VSX 2021 thread with no luck. I have also tried to go through the manual, but again I'm not sure I've got the answer I'm looking for. One reason for this is that I'm totally new to the world of AV receivers/speakers and have probably misunderstood or missed the relevant information.:(

    I've just put together my first set up - my list of equipment includes a Pioneer VSX 2021 AVR, Pioneer BDP 440 and Monitor Audio Bronze series speakers. Before I try to set everything up - I need a couple of points clarified and am hoping someone can help me.


    Firstly, If I put all the devices though the AVR using HDMI cables, would I need to switch the AVR on every time I need to listen to sound? Has my receiver got HDMI pass though with all the inputs? My devices are my blu ray player, PS3, Apple TV and a Sky HD+ box. I also have a Wii which I would connect using component cables.

    With the sky box, I understand that I will need to use an optical cable to get more than stereo sound. Again, can I put both the HDMI and optical cable though the AVR, with the sound coming out of the TV if the receiver stays on standby and the sound coming out of the speakers as 5.1 if I put the receiver on. From the VSX 2021 thread,I know I may need to assign some inputs/outputs, but is this possible?

    Finally, In order to still get sound out of the television, will the output from the AVR need to go into the TV's ARC HDMI input?

    Thank you in advance- any advise will really be appreciated!:rolleyes:
     
  2. tommy060289

    tommy060289
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    I can't 100% guarantee a perfect answer but I have a Pioneer VSX-LX55 which is essentially the same amp but with airplay support and wireless but I can tell you this.

    1.HDMI standby pass through is supported.

    2. Sound from the Sky box should pass through but id expect it to pass through the stereo channel on the HDMI rather than the optical input (not that it matters as 5.1 is only there when the amp is on anyway) Input assignment should already be done by default in a certain order so you could follow that or change the assignment. I think you can do it with the supplied CD (if you get that in the 2021)

    3. Im not certain about the ARC as I don't know if it just returns stereo in which case yes the ARC would need to be connected to the TV but I THINK (if its even possible to get 5.1 on free view or freesat HD) you would need to link the optical to the amp
     
  3. Cyruszaydan

    Cyruszaydan
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    Thank you for your advice.:) I will try what you have suggested. I'm just waiting for some speaker cable to arrive - then I'll link everything together and take it from there.
     
  4. Speedluvver

    Speedluvver
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    I have the 2021 and can't get the pass through to work.. At least with Sky (only one I have tried), If I switch the amp off while Sky is on.. I get picture and sound from tv briefly and then it's gone... So I would be interested if anyone has it working...
     
  5. tommy060289

    tommy060289
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    I remember reading something about some devices need HDMIconnect compliance or something along those lines (sounds like you can thank DRM again) and maybe HDMI passthrough doesn't work with certain devices. I could comment as Ive not tried it with sky
     
  6. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
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    You need to enable Control with HDMI, choose ALL control mode, and set standby mode to Normal. Comprehensive details can be found in the manual, chapter 8.

    The TV's equivalent must also be enabled.
     
  7. Speedluvver

    Speedluvver
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    Interestingly I have a kuro tv.. So I switched on control and turning the tv off now also turns the amp off.. If i switch just the amp off, the sky picture appears with tv speaker sound for 5 secs.. Then it goes.. I have set control on the amp as you said.. So not sure why it's not working..
     
  8. Cyruszaydan

    Cyruszaydan
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    Just a quick update - connected everything up as suggested in this thread and The VSX 2021 thread - but seem to be having problems similar to speedluvver. Basically, with the Sky HDMI going through the AVR, if I turn the amp off- you get sound and pictures briefly on the tv, then they are gone. Very strange.

    I have therefore resorted to running the Sky box HDMI straight into the TV and an optical cable from the Sky box into the amp. That way, if I want to watch and listen to 'normal' Sky tv channels, I can do that just through my tv, but if I want to watch a film with Dolby Digital sound, I just switch on the amp and that takes over.

    I would like to know why I can't get the HDMI pass through working ( if not for Sky tv, the at least for the PS3 and Apple TV)so if anyone knows why , I'd really appreciate it if you could let me ( and Speedluvver) know why
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2011
  9. jawilson59

    jawilson59
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    Perhaps a firmware update could sort it? Anyone know someone in philips to pursue this through?
     
  10. jawilson59

    jawilson59
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    Have read section 8 and dont understand why the tv and source also have to be control compatible ...

    Would have thought as long as pass through was enabled that the signal from sky hd et just goes through. Especially if ur not interested in using power off sync. Strange. Doesnt really say much for the marketing of this function if u have to upgrade ur tv etc also. .…
     
  11. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
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    There is an option for controlling this behaviour too, review chapter 8 for the details.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
  12. Cyruszaydan

    Cyruszaydan
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    From p45 chapter 8

    select the 'display power off' setting you want

    If the TV's power is turned off while using the Control with HDMI function, the receiver's power is also turned off (all power off function). This function can be disabled.

    YES– The all power off function is enabled. The receiver's power turns off together with the TV's power. This function only works when the input for a component connected to the receiver by HDMI connection is selected or when watching the TV.

    NO – The all power off function is disabled. The receiver's power is not affected when the TV's power is turned off.

    Hope this helps speedluvver - but still no luck with the pass through...hhmmmm
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2011
  13. Speedluvver

    Speedluvver
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    Thanks for that guys.. In fact in the meantime.. that functionality has proven useful and have kept it switched on :)

    Getting to grips with most of the settings now.. But as mentioned, the pass through not working yet..
     
  14. benpyett

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    Just to further confirm and most annoyingly I also can't get the 2021 to perform HDMI pass through of my SKY HD HDMI signal when its switched off (I've read elsewhere that this is a SKY HDMI issue).

    So I'm unable to pass a the SKY HDMI signal through the 2021 to my TV when the 2021 is in standby (plugged in but switched off having previously selected the SKY input so that it was the last watched "active input" on the receiver)

    I spent a while trying this today and it just won't work for me! anyone else's input if they got this working with SKY HD? but from what I'read it doesn't sound like it! :(

    Use Optical for sound from SKY to receiver.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2011
  15. boxrick

    boxrick
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    I was attempting to get this working on a VSX921. In the end a different receiver fixed the issue. Stupid Pioneer...
     
  16. benpyett

    benpyett
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    So just to clarify you're saying that after SKY HD failed to pass through with your 921 it worked with a Non Pioneer amp? which clearly suggests that this isn't a SKY issue but a Pioneer one?
     
  17. Cyruszaydan

    Cyruszaydan
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    Looking at the Pioneer manual (p45) - HDMI pass through may be possible, but then again for some devices it may not. The guidance in the manual states:

    About the Control with HDMI function

    Synchronized operations with a Control with HDMI-compatible Pioneer TV or Blu-ray Disc player or with a component of another make that supports the Control with HDMI functions are possible when the component is connected to the receiver using an HDMI cable.


    But then it adds:

    Important

    ! You cannot use this function with components that do not support Control with HDMI.

    ! We only guarantee this receiver will work with Pioneer Control with HDMI-compatible components and components of other makes that support the Control with HDMI function. However, we do not guarantee that all synchronized operations will work with components of other makes that support the Control with HDMI function.


    HHHmmm...About HDMI pass through, the manual states:

    Select the ‘Standby Through' setting you want.

    When Control is ON, the signals of the input device or TV connected to the receiver can be transferred even when the receiver's power is in the standby mode (Standby Through mode). The power consumption in this Standby through mode can be set to conserve energy.


    So basically, unless a component supports ' control with HDMI,' and the setting itself is set as 'on,' HDMI pass through may not work. Even if all those things are in place, Pioneer have added a caveat, stating that ,' we do not guarantee that all synchronized operations will work.' I'm not sure that these synchronised operations they talk about include HDMI pass through.

    Currently with my set up, HDMI pass through works (only sometimes!) with certain devices:

    Apple TV - NO
    Sky TV - NO
    Wii - NO, but expected this as this is connected through a component cable
    Pioneer BDP 440 - YES
    PS3 - YES

    I am having fun and games with the BDP 440 and PS3 pass through at the moment though. As I said, it works sometimes.I have the SKY TV going into the HDMI 1 slot in my TV, with the HDMI 2 (Arc) slot connected to AVR. When switching between HDMI 1 and HDMI 2, this switches on the PS3 or BDP 440 ever so often.Nice.

    Anyway, I'm going to phone Pioneer tomorrow to see if HDMI pass through actually works with SKY TV. If not, just going to have to bite the bullet I think
    and just enjoy the awesome sound and images I'm now getting.
     
  18. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
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    Basically there are a few ways pass through can be implemented:
    1) Always pass through a single specific input.
    2) Always pass through the last used input.
    3) Always pass through the currently active input.
    The first two are popularly implemented, especially on older devices, but are also a pain in the butt since the device you want to use is generally not the one being passed through.

    The third is the most flexible and solves all requirements. However, it requires that the input device have minimal intelligence - at least as smart as your ancient SCART connected VCR - so that it sends the relevant CEC command to indicate that it's active. You can appreciate the need for the command, as opposed to merely sensing the existence of a signal, when you realize that being "on" is not the same as being active. Consider your ancient video recorder, it only signalled TV switching when playback was active, not when it started time recording. The CEC commands are standardized (after all, they come from the SCART standard), but nevertheless, there are some totally brain damaged source devices.

    The problem is that most Sky boxes are such retards. See here. I suggest you yell at Sky.

    Pass through should work with "proper" sources, such as the PS3 or BD player, provided you've set up the system as per earlier posts.
     
  19. tommy060289

    tommy060289
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    Ive just found out that my xbox and Fat PS3 don't appear to support control with HDMI:(

    which is rather annoying, and is slightly strange as my xbox used to auto switch the channel on my panasonic but not with other TVs:(
     
  20. Nitro626

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    Hi All,

    I am new here but have been watching this post for a couple of days now.

    I managed to get a Pioneer VSX 2021 for xmas by getting friend and family to all chip in, but to be honest i am a little disapointed by the HDMI switching.

    I have a Sky HD, old Fat PS3, Apple TV and a panasonic 42" plasma. My TV will auto sense a HDMI signal on hdmi1 so it used to switch to what ever was turned on using a cheep 3 into 1 ebay hdmi auto switch.

    The reason i want the vsx2021 was because it has 2 hdmi outs, my plan was to use HDMI1 to my main panasonic tv and HDMI2, i was going to split and send to dinning room and a bedroom via cat5e extenders.

    On the run up to christmas i put all the cabling in place so christmas day i could just connect the amp and it would work! how wrong could i have been !

    I thought the VSX2021 would happily send SKY HD all over the house in standby via hdmi pass through, again how wrong could i be.

    There are products out there that use HDMI signal detection rather than HDMI control. Nothing i own has HDMI control thus my new amp will not do what i want. Very annoying however the sound is awesome DDtrueHD and DTSHD rocks !!

    Anyone know if you can buy a programmable HDMI switch/splitter? i need 4 inputs and 3 outputs min.

    Happy new year !
     
  21. jawilson59

    jawilson59
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    Let us know how u get on
     
  22. jawilson59

    jawilson59
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    What recvr did u get?
     
  23. Cyruszaydan

    Cyruszaydan
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    Well...Just got through to pioneer . Not good news I'm afraid. Was categorically told that Hdmi pass through would not work with Apple TV or Sky HD. The reason given was that neither of these devices support the ' control with HDMI ' function. When I asked why my VSX 2021 wouldn't just know that a HDMI signal was passing through and let it pass, I was told that this was not the way the amp was designed. It was apparently designed to recognise a device by being able to read whether it was HDMI controllable. I also asked another question about upscaling and was told what I needed to know.

    The number I rang was - 0870 6001539 ( Pioneer GB Limited)

    Please feel free to ring and check - hopefully you'll tell me I'm wrong and misunderstood :(

    They close at 3.00 today and then open again next Tuesday.
     
  24. Mark.Yudkin

    Mark.Yudkin
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    You haven't heard wrong. An autistic source device that abjectly refuses to tell the Pioneer when it's active cannot be switched by an amp that needs to know if and when there is something to be switched. Although there are amps that will simply always switch exactly one source, the Pioneer is designed to switch to the currently active source.

    Signal presence switching as you suggest would be an absolute disaster. It would mean that the amp would switch to a recording device when it started timed recording, as such as device obviously sends a signal across its HDMI outputs, if only to permit monitoring. But a programmed recorder is hardly something you'd want to consider active when you're watching something else! Fortunately, nobody actually implements such signal presence switching.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2011
  25. Nitro626

    Nitro626
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    I totally disagree with this, SkyHD which is the only recording device i use, records in standby.

    What annoys me is that a lot of pioneers uk customers will have Sky and its not compatable with their amp because of the way they have designed it! if they have put signal monitoring on just 2 or 3 of the hdmi inputs no one would have this problem !
     
  26. jawilson59

    jawilson59
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    Can skyhd be upgraded via software / firmware to enable hdmi-cec?
     
  27. jawilson59

    jawilson59
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    And furthermore will all current hdmi 1.4 amps do this? Denon / yamaha / onkyo. Will they all need hdmi control compatible devices to be connected for standy pass through to work?
     
  28. tommy060289

    tommy060289
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    I don't know for sure but I think it's more than a software update as the old fat ps3s can't do hdmi connect but the new slim ps3s can, even when both have the same software.

    As for other amps, I've heard people saying some fair better than others. I'm guessing a lot of the problem comes from the handshaking and stupid anti piracy regulations that were forced into hdmi standards.
     
  29. wysinawyg

    wysinawyg
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    This has actually just put me right off getting a Pioneer (which I kind of had my heart set on for Apple compatibility), don't think I could cope with the WAF nightmare of her finding herself unable to watch the telly if she couldn't get the amplifier switched on.

    In terms of alternatives Onkyo 809 manual is very clear that you have all three of Mark's options described above to choose from. So even if it doesn't signal detect the Sky box I could programme it to always default to the main Sky box thus keeping the wife happy.

    Denon manual I read (3312 I think) looked to be same as the Pioneer or at least didn't actively suggest it could do anything else.

    Haven't checked Yamaha (Onkyo ranked ahead as I know the home automation element is easier / seems more popular).
     
  30. jawilson59

    jawilson59
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    Ueap, fair enough, but we want the airplay which the onkyo doesnt have....
     

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