HDMI over CAT 6 solution advice

dilpz

Active Member
Hi Guys,

I've just refurbished my ground floor and have routed all of my cabling (CAT6 and speaker cable) to a cupboard under the stairs where all of my AV equipment is going to go. There will be an Onkyo TXNR 636 to drive the 5.1 speakers in the living room and perform HDMI switching. There will be 2 TVs downstairs, one in the living room and one in the family area. Each TV has 2 CAT6 cables behind it that are to be used to receive the HDMI signal from the amp via some sort of HDMI over CAT 6 solution. I would also like to put games consoles e.g. my PS4 in the cupboard as well but would like to be able to play them on one of the screens whilst the other screen is using a different source e.g. STB, Blu Ray etc. Anyone have any ideas on how this can be achieved? For clarity only CAT6 have been run back to the cupboard, no HDMI. I'd like the solution to be able to handle 4K 60 if possible. Any thoughts appreciated.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
I suspect the AVR will not be the ideal 'Hub' of your system as its 'Sub' HDMI Out is simply a 'mirror' of the Main HDMI Out.

Do both of your Display devices support the same range of video formats?

Audio is a potential issue if you plan to view the same source simultaneously on the two Display devices as the audio capabilities of the 'second' TV will tend to dictate which audio formats the Source will Output.

Control of IR and non-IR devices is going to be another potential issue - have you tried any tests with devices from room to room?

Which Source devices do you need to see/hear/control in the second room?

Joe
 

dilpz

Active Member
Hi Joe

Really sorry for the late reply. Its been a busy time trying to finish the house.

So I've gone for a 4x4 4k hdmi over CAT6 solution from Fourkay, link below:

To answer your questions, the main TV is a LG55EF950V 1st gen oled while the family area TV hasn't been purchased yet. The living room where this TV is has speaker cable installed ready for 5.1 surround which is to be driven by the Onkyo amp. IR control is not an issue as my harmony elite has been tested and works fine controlling the devices in the cupboard from the living room.

The plan is to have each TV on an output from the matrix, and plug the source devices in e.g. firestick, stb, PS4 into the matrix to share between the 2 displays or watch one on one screen while using another on the other. The only bit I'm confused with now is how to get the amp to drive the speakers in the living room whenever the output for the living room screen is used. I don't want the speakers in the living room to come on when using the family room screen only for example.

Any ideas on how I can achieve this? Any ideas welcome.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If the Matrix lacks a local HDMI Output for one or more Zones you would need to use one of the Zone Receivers to feed the AVR - if you don’t have a ‘spare’ Zone available to mirror the signal you are sending to the TV in the Zone you can add a point to point Extender to the Output of the AVR.

Have you installed the Matrix to ensure it delivers anything other than 2.0 audio and it supports 50Hz signals?

Joe
 

dilpz

Active Member
The matrix has 4 seperate hdmi and cat outputs. Hdmi and cat6 outputs are mirrored. Am I right in thinking I can achieve what I want by connecting the zone 1 hdmi output from the matrix into one of the HDMI in ports of the receiver. I could then connect the CAT port of zone 1 on the matrix to the TV via my cat6 cable and balun.

In my head this works as whatever is output to zone 1 could have its audio output via the amp/speakers whilst the video signal woukd go via the CAT 6 csble. The other zone would never trigger the speakers as the amp is not connected to that output.

I've not set the matrix up yet but according to the spec sheet it does support 4k 60 and multiple audio formats including atmos and DTS HD.
 
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Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Yes try using the HDMI Out on the corresponding Zone to send a signal to the AVR.

The tricky part is audio format management as you have one Zone where you want highest quality audio and the rest of the Zones potentially limited to 2.0 audio if you are only using the TV speakers, unless you can add a budget Soundbar with the same audio format support as the Main zone AVR.

In terms of video support you want to ensure you have support for HD and UHD at 50Hz.

Joe
 

dilpz

Active Member
Hi Guys

So an update/cry for help....since the last post renovations have finished and I've had the matrix feeding my EF950V TV in the living room via a Onkyo TX-NR636 with no issues.

We decided the other day to move my Optoma HD141X projector, screen, amp and speakers into our family area rather than buy another TV. Behind the proj screen there are 2 CAT6 sockets wired back to the AV rack where the matrix is. There is also a CAT6 socket on the opposite side of the room near the projector going to the same place. All sockets have been checked with a network tester and pass.

I have 1x CAT6 from behind the screen terminating into a dumb 100mpbs switch in the AV rack along with the one near the projector. I'm using hdmi over IP baluns to connect the HDMI out from my other TX-NR535 amp situated under the screen to the HDMI input of my projector via this switch and the baluns. This seems to work OK and I can see a blue display with the amp volume controls when on. The amp was reset to factory default settings before it was moved.

The CAT output 4 from the Fourkay HDMI over CAT6 matrix in the AV rack is connected to the 2nd CAT6 socket behind the screen. A CAT6 cable from this socket goes to the matrix balun. The HDMI from the balun goes to input 1 on the 535.

This is where my issue is. I cannot for the life of me get the matrix to display anything reliably to this input. The balun is POE so shows a green light but no orange light. I managed to get my firestick to display on there once after moving to a different CAT output on the matrix, but did not display again after a reboot. Usually, it just displays a blue screen from the amp as if nothing is being received. HDMI shows up on the amp input1 showing that the amp is attempting to handshake, but nothing displays. On the odd occasion it did work, 'resolution err' showed on the amp for a few seconds before it would display the image. I've not been able to repeat that again post reboot despite changing nothing settings wise.

The attached files show pics of the matrix settings. The fire stick 4K I'm attempting to display is set to 'best available' output resolution and I've set the EDID on that matrix input to 1080, whilst the CAT output (output 4) is set to 4K---->1080 although other combinations e.g auto do not work either. None of the other devices plugged into the matrix display either.

The fire stick was plugged directly into one of the other amp inputs and showed straight away, so the issue is definitely between the matrix output and amp input. I have also tried to bypass the amp and plug straight into the input of the HDMi over IP balun, but this does not work either. I've tried all CAT outputs in the matrix too, all with the same result of no display on the projector screen.

Any ideas? I realise that this is a really complicated setup but I feel like I'm nearly there. I'm new to edids and matrices but I'm hopeful something will work. I've attached a PDF of the product manual just in case anyone out there might be able to help. Just to add, the max cable run between matrix and socket is around 18m.
 
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dilpz

Active Member
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Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Have you confirmed Source > Matrix > AVR works using a Display connected directly to the AVR via an HDMI cable?

Joe
 

dilpz

Active Member
Hi Joe,

I've only connected the projector at this point, I will try a small screen instead of it going into the projector and see if it makes a difference
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Ideal - if it’s an option to drag the PJ close to the AVR I would test it with a short HDMI before you try adding in the HD over LAN extender.

Joe
 

dilpz

Active Member
After connecting a small screen to the matrix balun, I can see the Orange light flash on the balun. It does not do this when plugged into the amp input. Annoyingly I found that the screen I'm using has a max res of 720p, which I don't think the matrix can handle (only goes as low as 1080i). If it wasnt for that I believe it would display. I wonder if it will make a difference if I set the projector res to be forced to 1080p as well as the HDMI out amp resolution? At the moment it's all set to auto. Only one way to find out!
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
To test properly you need to remove any unknowns. Try and find a way to get a Display into the room to text the Matrix > Zone Receiver then add the AVR to the Zone Receiver and Retest.

Once you know Matrix > Zone Receiver > AVR > Display works you can test the 'in-room' Extender works between your Source and Projector and once you know that works you can try adding it between the AVR and the Projector.

Welcome to the world of HDMI testing :)

Joe
 

dilpz

Active Member
I'm suspecting more and more that the projector seems to be the issue. Today, I connected the matrix directly to the projector via the wall ethernet socket, removing the amp out of the equation completely. Again, the matrix balun connected to the wall socket showed no Orange light meaning that projector and matrix so not seem to be attempting to communicate.

Spoke to the supplier today and he suggested trying the following hdmi splitter to put between the matrix and projector to try to downscale the image and strip HDCP away which the projector may not understand due to its age..... Heres hoping

Amazon product
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
The HDFury DR HDMI or DR HDMI 4K would be my suggestion - that way you can present the required EDID to the Source.


Joe
 

dilpz

Active Member
Ok.......so after swapping my 515 and 636 avr around, I was getting a signal to the projector from the avr and matrix although it wasn't reliable...While everything was working, I was looking in the AV rack and managed to move the switch containing the hdmi over ip connections. This caused everything to disconnect! Despite all the network connections checking out during previous tests I redid the ends of all of the cables and also the sockets and now I have a reliable connection, even with the older amp!

The only thing now is that audio drops out around 2 minutes after starting up, but then slowly comes back, cutting in and then stays on. It's as if the avr is trying to negotiate with something to find the most appropriate way to output the audio before finding what it needs and settling down.

I'll check my sources to see if there are any settings that may make this better but for now, I'm so glad that I've got a reliable base to work from! Thank you Joe for all of your help so far. It is much appreciated!
 
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Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
HDMI audio in encoded into the Video signal and the AVR is sent an instruction about what type of audio lo look for and decode - it may be one of your extender devices is messing up the signalling and the AVR is having to renegotiate HDCP with the Source and then reestablish the signal.

Joe
 

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