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HDMI/DVI vs. YUV

Discussion in 'Blu-ray & DVD Players & Recorders' started by Pato, Jan 3, 2005.

  1. Pato

    Pato
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    Hi there...

    My experience with HDMI/DVI it's not very famous.

    Just tested these hardware:

    - Denon 3910 + Sony HS20 (HDMI)
    - Denon 2910 + Panasonic Plasma (DVI)

    In all these situations, YUV gave the best results. With the 3910 + HS20, we couldn't change the IRE, so the PQ was poor, but the definition remain the same, and i'm using the original 10m cable suplied with the HS20 :thumbsdow . With the 2910 + Panasonic, the result via DVI was :eek:

    Hope i can test my 2910 + HS20 this week with HDMI Kimber & Qed cables, to see if digital connections really mean business or it's just a hype.

    What's your experience with these connections, and similar products (or not)?

    Best regards,
     
  2. Nic Rhodes

    Nic Rhodes
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    Your results agree with what many of us think. The DVI input can produce good results but you need the likes of a quality scaler, the DVI outputs are far from a perfect connection but HDMI is MUCH more consistent.

    Re the 2910 and 3910 I am not a fan, think Pioneer, Arcam etc do it better
     
  3. Pato

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    Hi Nic,

    The tests inclued one-to-one mapping in my HS20, no scaling, up scaling with the Denon, with the HS20, still no better results with HDMI than with the YUV.

    Why do i read everywhere that these digital connections will provide huge improvements, and in pratice they don't? Well, as far as my experience (which is short), still they don't... :censored:
     
  4. gandley

    gandley
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    depends on the projector as well. is its HDMI input any good or was it a quick bolt on to capture a market? was the component output optimized for dvd playback much like marantz do with there PJs.

    For what its worth with the 3910, pioneer 868i, and arcam79 if you use HDMI you get stunning results with all 3 producing a pic that is almost identical.(i have tried all 3). the 3910s component output is very good as is the arcams but the pioneers is a little bit behind. dosent appear as crisp or detailed as the other 2 but still quite good.

    With HDMI/DVI i have found calibration to be essential. It also helps to have some kind of digital vibrancy control but tweaking of brightness and contrast and colour intensity is absolutly vital. I have manage to get a pic with my PJ with HDMI that is superior to YUV but it has taken time but the results are so superb it was well worth it. I am well pleaed with the enhancment HDMI has brought. I think half the problem people think the jump will be huge when its not, but do a side by side comparison and the picture quality difference can be seen easy enough. The easiest difference to spot is the further decrease of picture noise and better defined edges.
    HDMI is more about bringing a digital standard to the table that is more consumer friendley. and once tech catches up the bliss of have 1 cable to transport Multi channel audio and digital video will be a godsend.

    One must also remember HDMI is limited by an old standard ie DVD hopefully when HD-DVD and blue RAY hit the market they will fully exlpoit the capabilities of HDMI with it being able to transfer higher bit processing.
     
  5. Pato

    Pato
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    Hi Gandley,

    As i said, hope i can test this week with a good cable and some DVE calibration. I'll be looking for the enhancment you described.

    Just a question, which cable and length are you using?
     
  6. GliderRider

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    Sorry, I'm new, what is YUV? I've just boughta Screenplay 2500 and Denon DVD 2910, please advise what connection will provide the best picture.

    Many THanks

    Andy
     
  7. vonhosen

    vonhosen
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    YUV is your component output.

    I don't have your kit so can't say which will be the best connection. It varies with each different set up. Try them & see.
     
  8. gandley

    gandley
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    I use a 10m wireworld cable (starlight5) which i think is the best youll get, but i think its way overkill. I only bought it at the time because it was the only HDMI cable long enough. Avia is also an excellent calibration disc.
     
  9. Steve Zodiac

    Steve Zodiac
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    I found that going from the component output to the HDMI output of my Pioneer 868 and into the DVI input to my plasma, the difference wasn't easily noticeable whilst watching a DVD. As previously mentioned, the main differences were slightly less noise and again, slightly better defined edges.

    I must say that I couldn't really recommend that anyone should swap their DVD player with a decent component out for one with HDMI or DVI out. Perhaps a better screen may show up more of a difference for DVD viewing than mine did, but I doubt it. For me the £700 for the 868 over my previous Sony DVD player wasn't the best investment in HC that I have made. I'm certainly not knocking the 868, it's just that from my experience people perhaps shouldn't expect miracles when HDMI and DVI are mentioned for SD DVD.

    Where I did notice a considerable difference going from component to HDMI out of the 868, was on the Avia tests. The improvement from the digital output did show up clearly in some instances.

    I use a 5m HDMI - DVI cable from CPC (Farnell) which cost just over £20. From what I understand about digital transmission, the signal either gets to the other end error free and in synch, or not. I can't see what an expensive digital cable can offer over a cheap one, apart from potentially a greater distance of error free transmission......... but I'm not talking about just a few metres!
     
  10. GliderRider

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    Thanks for comments so far.
    I have a Screenplay 7200. I am waiting delivery on a Denon AVR3805 receiver and Denon 2910 player, although I am thinking of upgrading the 2910 to the 3910. (I've got a few days to make a decision while the supplier awaits stock)
    I will need to use at least 5 metre cable length.
    Also, my guess is, that it is better to go direct from Player to Projector rather than via the receiver? (Going via receiver would save on cable)
     
  11. gandley

    gandley
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    depends on the cable your using. i take it that you will use component and not HDMI or DVI in that case using the amp to switch will not present a problem (read as should not).

    I would recomend the 3910 over the 2910 if you can meet the extra cost, mostly due to how the 3910 tames Macroblocking and on a big screen display you realy need this as MB on a projector screen is nothing short of awfull.
     
  12. Wasabi

    Wasabi
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    Here's hometheaterhifi's 3910 test - and its a grand slam.

    http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_12_1/denon-dvd-3910-dvd-player-1-2005.html

    "However, there were zero artifacts in 720p and 480p on my Hitachi 51SWX20B. Kris also had no issues on his Panasonic plasma, which is typically the most affected by the problem. From Kris’s findings, the DVD-3910 has the least amount of macro-blocking issues of any of the FLI-2300-based players seen thus far."

    Wasabi
     
  13. Pato

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    Don´t have MB issues on my 2910 + HS20. As they (3910 + 2910) have the same deinterlacer (FLI2310), how do the 3910 work better than the 2910, regarding MB?
     
  14. gandley

    gandley
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    There video sections are not identical, there is a small difference(see Hometheatresecrets for full info)
    Here they tested for MB and made it very clear that out of all the DCDI 2310 dvd players from different makes the 3910 shows the least MB off all even surpacing the 2910. I have seen the 2910 and have seen MB present hence why i would recommend a bypass to the 3910. But if you dont see it then thats good news as there are others that do(normaly plasma owners)
    I have also been told denon made an extra effort with the 3910 and the MB issue and from what ive seen this would ring true.
    Quote confirming difference and the result.

    The video performance de-interlacing wise is identical to Denon’s upper end offerings such as the DVD-3910 and DVD-5900. The MPEG decoder doesn’t seem to be quite as good as the ESS offerings in the upper line. This decoder had severe 4:2:0 CUE issues that were so bad that the Faroudja’s chroma filters couldn’t get rid of them totally. The same went for the 3-2 alternating CUE test. There were obvious banding and flicker even with the Faroudja filters engaged. This was not the case with the 3910.
     
  15. Audionyx

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    HDMI can also carry YUV in 8,10,12 bits digitally. This is in addition to PC-RGB and Studio RGB digital signals.

    The cleanest output from the DVD player would be 480i/576i HDMI YUV and is the closest one can get to SDI and the best signal for any scaling technology in the video chain. That being said, better scalers and deinterlacers are finding home in todays state-of-the-art DVD players.
     
  16. Xstyle

    Xstyle
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  17. gandley

    gandley
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    Yes we know but it will no where near match the quality of a decent external scaler/deinterlacer, somthing which the 868i could realy benefit from.
    The dvdo iscanHD+(there are others as well) will soon pass 480/576i via dvi for use with HDMI interlaced. this will solve the short comings of the 868i bar the bad layerchange
     
  18. jrosado

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    I've a 2910 and i'm using it with a Panny PW6 plasma. No signal of MB so far here...

    Regards,

    J. Rosado
     

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