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HDMI/DVI inputs-why do they bother?

Discussion in 'Plasma TVs' started by leamspaceman, Aug 4, 2004.

  1. leamspaceman

    leamspaceman
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    Just looking through the manual for the Pioneer PDP-434HDE. I see that the set has HDMI input but that the control box connects to the set using this input. The HDMI input is not replicated on the control box so effectively the set does not have HDMI. This is the same with the Hitachi 42PD5300. The box connects to the set with DVI but the DVI input is not replicated on the box. Why do the manufacturers advertise these sets with DVI/HDMI when in reality you can't use them as such. You would have to keep unplugging the cables in order to connect your DVI/HDMI kit. Ridiculous!
     
  2. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  3. Rob20

    Rob20
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    what's the difference between a dvi connection and an HDMI?? is one better than the other? :confused:
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    For our purposes there really is little difference. HDMI is DVIVIDEO+DIGITALAUDIO. The colourspace on HDMI can be closer to the sources colourspace than with DVI but that's only important if you are a perv like me who likes to play with video processors.

    You can read a little spiel about HDMi and DVi on my website in the articles section if you want. Should clear things up.

    Gordon
     
  5. leamspaceman

    leamspaceman
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    If you go to Pioneers website and download the manual for the PDP-434HDE their is no sign of the HDMI input on the control box. If you watch the flash presentation on the site though (which I only just watched), there is the HDMI input. Talk about confusing...my god, no wonder this is such a minefield.
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Leamspaceman: it would be far too easy for customers if the manufacturers gave you all the relevant info in a concise and accurate manner.....They want you to work for it and only once they believe you are worthy will you be allowed to actually purchase their products..hahaha;)

    Gordon
     
  7. Messiah

    Messiah
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    Just goes to show. Never believe what the manufacturers tell you :D Go see for yourself.
     
  8. suzywong

    suzywong
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    You'll find that there is a separate downloadable "manual" (about 2 pages worth) that "describes" the HDMI input. For some reason it was not included in the 434/504 user manual; but it does exist.......honest!:laugh:
     
  9. alancolledge

    alancolledge
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    I concur, this is the same as the physical manual you get with the plasma. I got worried the first time I read through it but there is a second booklet explaining about the connection specifically in regard to using a Pioneer HDMI enabled DVD player.

    DVI to HDMI works a treat too though....
     
  10. Mr. Wilby

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    Alan, forgive me for asking, but isn't the 434 HDMI HDCP protected (don't you just love these acronyms!]... in which case, how can you feed the DVI out from your 365 to the HDCP HDMI input on your Plasma? Wouldn't the screen detect it was receiving an upscaled image and refuse to display it?

    Or are you not upscaling in the DVD player (letting the screen do that)?
     
  11. idhutt

    idhutt
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    HDCP in the receiving equipment is triggered by a flag in the digital input stream. If that flag is not present in the data stream, the receiver would not bother with HDCP decoding, since it is not encoded, and the stream would still be displayed as normal. For DVD players, the HDCP flag would normally be set only for CP discs, ie most.
     
  12. Mr. Wilby

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    idhutt, thanks for your reply.

    Are you saying that the 365 player is stripping the tags from the data source before feeding it to the plasma's input? [and therefore the plasma is not aware that this is a CP source]?

    I'm sure these are stupid questions with obvious answers.. ;-)
     
  13. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The 365 is not HDCP compliant. It ignores the copy protection on the disc and just sticks out DVI wth no encryption.

    HDMI inputs will accept non encrypted HDMI or DVI signals as long as they are within the paramaters designated by the manufacturer of the device. ie not all resolutions possible on DVI and HMDI are supported by sources and/or displays.

    Gordon
     
  14. idhutt

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    No. The flags/tags are added by the HDCP circutry in the DVD player when it detects CP source material. Its a requirement of the DVD forum that DVD players with digital output must use HDCP for CP source material. So HDCP is a function of the player rather than the source.

    -Ian
     
  15. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Just to clarify what looks like a difference of opinion by Ian and I. He is correct that the DVD forum require DVD manufacturers to add HDCP to digital outputs. However, some manufacturers are not licence holders of DVD Forum (and therefore don't give a toss what they decree) or are willing to chance there arm and see if they get away with it.

    Gordon
     
  16. Mr. Wilby

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    Thanks guys for your replies.

    So tell me if I have this correct: the 365 player obviously doesn't support HDCP, and therefore doesn't set the flags... so the plasma doesn't refuse to display the image.

    The 365 is, however, capable of upscaling the DVD source to HD resolutions.

    I assume that the plasma doesn't care that its been sent a non-HDCP HD resolution image?
     
  17. Joe Fernand

    Joe Fernand
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    leamspaceman

    The PDP-434HDE and PDP-504HDE were 'groundbreaking' products when they launched late last year - the inclusion of the HDMI socket on the R04 Media Box was a very last minute decision; the politics of the DVD market made it look like it was not going to happen right up until the last minute.

    The user manuals were launched with no HDMI mentioned and as others have said a separate PDF file covers the HDMI input on the Media Box - for some reason the Pioneer webs site has never been updated.

    If you PM me I'll forward you a copy of the PDF file.

    Best regards

    Joe
     
  18. Hicksy

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    In short is there much benefit to me if my new Sammy Plasma has the DVI inputs or is it a marketing ploy?

    Apologies, but this does go over my head a little! :laugh:
     
  19. idhutt

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    It depends on alot of factors, such as

    1. Do you have any DVI/HDMI sources now
    2. Do you think you will purchase any HD stuff within the life of the panel, $ky, HD-DVD etc
    3. Do you want the opportunity to connect sources to the panel in the best quality method available
    4. Are you likely to use the plasma as a PC display device

    If you have answered Yes to any of the above, you should seriously consider DVI/HDMI equipped sets. Unfortunately, we are far behind many other countries regarding this, and what is available to us now is baseline specification, so it may not provide us now with the full benefits that this technology can provide and people have been experiencing on other countries for some time.

    The marketing ploy, is providing a crippled implementation when it would have been just as easy to provide a decent selection of input rates, native etc.

    IMHO
     

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