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HDMI cable upscaler ?

Mutha64

Standard Member
Hi all

I bought some HDMI cables in 2007 which were cemented into the grout lines of my wall for my home Cimema setup.

A year ago I bought an LG Oled and Xbox one X but the cable couldn't output 4K from the Xbox to the TV. The Xbox HDMI cable worked perfectly so I had to have a cable dangling down from behind the TV together with an optical audio as my old Onkyo amp isnt ARC.

I've just ordered a Denon AVR-X3500H and plan on using the ARC facility to lose the optical cable.

Is there any type of converter that I could connect to my old HDMI cable in the wall so it will play 4K. I scoured the web but cant find anything. I know HDMI cables are cheap but it would mean digging out my wall to hide it.

Cheers
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Installed HDMI cable - how long is the cable?

'Extender' - there are a couple of options you can try ranging in price from around £90 to £500, the HDFury Dr HDMI 4K is worth a try.


Joe
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
Most likely you've got HDMI spec 1.2 or 1.3 cabling installed. Sadly your 2007 cables are just not capable of carrying the signal bandwidth required for 4K. Rip and replace is the only way forward - just be sure to keep HDMI cable lengths below 5m where possible to ensure adequate transmission from source.
 
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mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
You might want to consider paintable trunking for future-proofing options. Less intrusive than tearing apart walls.

Trunking
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
Is there any type of converter that I could connect to my old HDMI cable in the wall so it will play 4K.
Ignore the first response, he clearly didn't read your question and is trying to sell you something that won't solve your issue.

As @mikeysthoughts has stated, the cables you currently have, embedded in the wall, are not capable of carrying the volume of data required, to support the modern video standards. They're probably early cat 1 or cat 2 cables that will support up to 1080p60.
What you need are modern Premium Certified cables or for further future proofing, Ultra High Speed cables which are capable of supporting up to 48Gb/s.

Unfortunately, your old cables are scrap.

Paul
 
Ignore the first response, he clearly didn't read your question and is trying to sell you something that won't solve your issue.

As @mikeysthoughts has stated, the cables you currently have, embedded in the wall, are not capable of carrying the volume of data required, to support the modern video standards. They're probably early cat 1 or cat 2 cables that will support up to 1080p60.
What you need are modern Premium Certified cables or for further future proofing, Ultra High Speed cables which are capable of supporting up to 48Gb/s.

Unfortunately, your old cables are scrap.

Paul
The only way to "future proof" cabling is to install them in a conduit. Connection technology will always lag behind video technology, so replacing cables again once HDMI 2.1 is out in the wild and there is content to view is more than likely. You need to have easy access to your cabling.

Premium High Speed HDMI cables are passive and are certifiable only up to 25'. The are certified by HDMI.org to meet all HDMI 2.0 hardware specifications (18Gbps). Any cable run over 25', a hybrid fiber cable is highly recommended (Ruipro4k). However, those cables are active and HDMI.org does not allow for ATC certification for any active cables, be it copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber.

Ultra High Speed HDMI cables (48Gbps) are still a bit of a unicorn. It's easy for a cable mfr to use some sort of pattern generator to "prove" that their cable can run at 48Gbps but it is an entirely different matter to prove that their "48Gbps" cable can transmit the HDMI 2.1 feature sets that require 48Gbps, reliably and error free. The main issue is that there are no consumer devices with validated HDMI 2.1 chipsets to test them on in a real world setting, let along source material. Lab testing is one thing but it's what we see in our homes that is the real acid test. UHS HDMI cables will be the new terminology to distinguish the cables from Premium but a lot of cable mfrs are jumping on that term just to sell cables to the unsuspecting. If a cable is listed as UHS, and the term HDMI 2.1 is used in their marketing or product description, then according the HDMI.org they must also list which HDMI 2.1 feature sets that the cable has been tested for, not just list the HDMI 2.1 features.

The options that Joe listed above are viable choices for the OP to investigate, which may get him by for the time being until he can decide on what he wants to do.
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
The options that Joe listed above are viable choices for the OP to investigate, which may get him by for the time being until he can decide on what he wants to do.
OP wants to play 4K through a v1.3 cable. Not possible, no matter how much is spent on intermediate boxes.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'Ignore the first response, he clearly didn't read your question and is trying to sell you something that won't solve your issue.'

'OP wants to play 4K through a v1.3 cable. Not possible, no matter how much is spent on intermediate boxes.'


Maybe I should have tried to supply one of our RuiPro4K Hybrid Fibre cables - though that will entail replacing the installed cable, which the Opp indicated he would rather avoid.

How many devices have you tried which are designed to push 4K UHD over an installed HDMI cable?

They won't always work but given the circumstances are worth a try and simple enough to return a unit if they do not fix the problem!

Given the choice I would say replace the cable with one of our RuiPro4K - but that is not always an option.

Note my question about the length of the installed cable!

Joe

PS I can run 4K UHD at 8m over non High Speed or Premium High Speed HDMI cables we supplied many moons ago.
 
OP wants to play 4K through a v1.3 cable. Not possible, no matter how much is spent on intermediate boxes.
No such thing as an "HDMI 1.3 cable". It's either a Standard HDMI cable or a High Speed HDMI cable. If it's a thick gauge cable, and there is no wall plate involved, it MAY work for the time being. Long term no. But at least the OP has options to consider before ripping into his walls. Personally I don't see any way around it other than to install conduit and run a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k).
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
'Ignore the first response, he clearly didn't read your question and is trying to sell you something that won't solve your issue.'

'OP wants to play 4K through a v1.3 cable. Not possible, no matter how much is spent on intermediate boxes.'


Maybe I should have tried to supply one of our RuiPro4K Hybrid Fibre cables - though that will entail replacing the installed cable, which the Opp indicated he would rather avoid.

How many devices have you tried which are designed to push 4K UHD over an installed HDMI cable?

They won't always work but given the circumstances are worth a try and simple enough to return a unit if they do not fix the problem!

Given the choice I would say replace the cable with one of our RuiPro4K - but that is not always an option.

Note my question about the length of the installed cable!

Joe

PS I can run 4K UHD at 8m over non High Speed or Premium High Speed HDMI cables we supplied many moons ago.
Not having a pop at you Joe, but 4K video and ARC through a 2007 HDMI cable is one of those things that I'd want to see working before splurging money on £80 -£500 gizmos. Especially as 5m Premium HDMI cables can be had for £10 to £20. If you're focusing only on the 'extender' part, then that's not resolving OPs issue of wanting 4K video and ARC transmission with the 2007 cable.

OP - you pays your money you takes your choice. I'd go with a Premium cable natively capable of 4K rather than spending hundreds on equipment. Yes, the wall would suffer but my trunking suggestion is quite an elegant solution. Note that the description within the product link makes no mention of 4K video transmission through a , other than 'it can boost signal integrity'.
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
No such thing as an "HDMI 1.3 cable". It's either a Standard HDMI cable or a High Speed HDMI cable. If it's a thick gauge cable, and there is no wall plate involved, it MAY work for the time being. Long term no. But at least the OP has options to consider before ripping into his walls. Personally I don't see any way around it other than to install conduit and run a hybrid fiber cable (Ruipro4k).
Yes this chatter about "HDMI cable versions don't exist" resurfaces all the time but in fairness I'm trying to simplify it for OP's needs rather than getting into a contest about how much we all know about HDMI standards. To be more accurate, the 2007 cable was manufactured before the 4K HDMI standard was even agreed in HDMI standard v1.4. So it's EXTREMELY unlikely that the 2007 cable is capable of 4K transmission. But, let's keep the deep technical discussions away from actually helpful advice as far as we can.

Does his current HDMI cable work? Definitively no. Otherwise they wouldn't have initiated the thread. So the practical advice is to install new cabling. I suggested trunking in post 4 and maintain this is a good solution for OPs needs.
 
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Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Trunking, replace cable etc - all great advice.

The question was ‘Is there any type of converter that I could connect to my old HDMI cable in the wall so it will play 4K’ and the answer is yes but not guaranteed to work so give them a try with the only ‘risk’ being return postage.

Joe
 

mikeysthoughts

Well-known Member
Trunking, replace cable etc - all great advice.

The question was ‘Is there any type of converter that I could connect to my old HDMI cable in the wall so it will play 4K’ and the answer is yes but not guaranteed to work so give them a try with the only ‘risk’ being return postage.

Joe
Joe, this is genuinely news to me hence my skepticism. Surely the capability to send Standard HDMI cables into overdrive would be a huge USP to place in the product description to sell it? I get the range boosting capability, but potentially pushing quality 4K signals through a cable manufactured before the standard was agreed is very surprising.
 

andy1249

Distinguished Member
However, those cables are active and HDMI.org does not allow for ATC certification for any active cables, be it copper only, fiber, or hybrid fiber.
Active cables are allowed for in the spec as are repeaters, optical fibre and wireless systems.
Indeed any system is allowed between points A and B that performs the function of a cable with the proviso that it passes the standard category tests and that it does not steal power from the 5v line.
That last bit is why none of the acive systems available today are certified, they all steal power.

Category 2 or “ high speed” , “ premium” have been tested with simulated 4k signals ( 4096 x 2160 as they thought 4k would be at the time ) since the outset, long before any such signals actually existed.
Cable specs have always been very forward looking.
For example the new “ ultra spec” category 3 cables must pass tests for possible future resolutions up to 48Gbps, which includes simulated signals for 11k formats and way beyond....

Summing up, yes, there are plenty of certified cables out there from circa 2006 that have no problem passing 4k
I have two 5 meter cables in the wall myself, put there in 2006 , that work fine with my new 4k TV and Ultra HD sources.
 
Active cables are allowed for in the spec as are repeaters, optical fibre and wireless systems.
Indeed any system is allowed between points A and B that performs the function of a cable with the proviso that it passes the standard category tests and that it does not steal power from the 5v line.
That last bit is why none of the acive systems available today are certified, they all steal power.

Category 2 or “ high speed” , “ premium” have been tested with simulated 4k signals ( 4096 x 2160 as they thought 4k would be at the time ) since the outset, long before any such signals actually existed.
Cable specs have always been very forward looking.
For example the new “ ultra spec” category 3 cables must pass tests for possible future resolutions up to 48Gbps, which includes simulated signals for 11k formats and way beyond....

Summing up, yes, there are plenty of certified cables out there from circa 2006 that have no problem passing 4k
I have two 5 meter cables in the wall myself, put there in 2006 , that work fine with my new 4k TV and Ultra HD sources.
ATC Certified (Authorized Testing Center)? While there is a provision in the HDMI documentation for certification of active cables, HDMI.org has not allowed for their ATC's to apply the QR label of authenticity for cables that have been certified by an ATC, which are approved by HDMI.org following their provisions and testing equipment. Sure, there are lots of "certified" cables out there but they do not follow the standardized certification program designed and implemented by HDMI.org.

Ruipro4k hybrid fiber cables for example have been tested and are currently being tested by an ATC for HDMI 2.0 and HDMI 2.1 feature sets. But, being as they are active, HDMI.org will not allow the cables to be marketed as certified by HDMI, at least not yet. HDMI.org copyrighted the name Premium High Speed HDMI cables and authenticated that with the QR label. UHS (Ultra High Speed) HDMI cables is the next designation for cables that pass the 48Gbps bandwidth requirement for the higher 8k video standards but whether HDMI.org will copyright that designation to distinguish them from the Premium cables is not clear. As I said before, there are lots of "certified" 48Gbps cables available now but that does not mean that the cable can pass the data that requires 48Gbps reliably and error free. 4k does not always mean 4k HDR.
 

youngsyp

Distinguished Member
They won't always work but given the circumstances are worth a try and simple enough to return a unit if they do not fix the problem!

Given the choice I would say replace the cable with one of our RuiPro4K - but that is not always an option.
I concede that I may have been a bit quick to judge and can see what you're were trying to do with your suggestion of the Dr HDMI. Advising the OP that it's a possible solution that they could try, and return for a refund if it didn't work, would have been useful in addition to your first post though, don't you think?

Being an expert in the field, alternatives, as you've listed above would also have been useful along with advice around the use of them, pros and cons etc...

My recommendations came from my experience, of having HDMI cables (that should have supported the bandwidth) not work when expected. The cables I now use, support my uses cases (up to UHD BD @ YCbCr 4:4:4), which seem to fit in with the OPs.

Paul
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
mikeysthoughts - adding the externally powered 'repeater' device may just be enough to allow you to deliver a stable signal over a pre installed cable and is definitely worth a consideration before breaking open walls etc.

Otto - as Andy highlights the problem, in terms of Certification, with most 'active' cables is they steal power rather than having an option to power the cable externally.

Mutha64 - you have options :)

Joe
 

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