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HDMI Cable problems or setup problem ?

RobinDB

Active Member
I have to main HD sources,
a sony bluray player
and a Zappiti 4K mini

They both feed into my devon H4400 av amp

Output is to a old philips 1080p TV and an Epson projector.

Cable to projector is 10m long

All worked fine on epson tw9300, switch between sources not a problem.

changed projector to tw9400 and starting to have problems

zappiti box is ok though occasionally get no signal on projector when it is all powering up.
when i switch on sony bluray i get no signal come up.

however if i switch on tv, image on projector appears.
I can switch off tv after projector has acquired image and good to go.

cable to projector is 10M long and supposed to be standard 2.0, though its 4 years old.

HDMI link is off on projector.
Tv is on monitor 1 output on denon, projector on monitor 2.

any ideas ?

thanks
 

Otto Pylot

Active Member
At 10m, and for 1080 only, try a newer HDMI cable and make sure it is an active one. You might just need a little boost in power due to the longer distance and with new equipment. Just make sure that CEC (HDMI Link) is disabled on all of your connected devices. If that doesn't work, then maybe it's a configuration issue.
 

RobinDB

Active Member
Yes, HDMI link is off.
What do you mean by being an active one ?
All I did was swap projectors.
The output is same either from sony Blu-ray or zappiti from the devon av amp.
 

Otto Pylot

Active Member
There are two types of HDMI cables, active and passive. Both cables just pass data from source (pj) to sink (tv). There is usually an undefined distance limitation for passive cables. This is especially true for 4k HDR but not so much for 1080. However, an active cable has small chipsets in the connector ends that control timing, error correction, etc for the data path so that the signal can be transmitted over longer distances without any errors. It accomplishes that by drawing some power (hence the term active) from the sink (tv) side. They do work very well for 1080 only signals. An active cable has to installed in a specific direction, from source to sink, and there are usually notations on the connector ends like Source or Sink or TV or something like that to indicate which end of the cable connects to what. A passive cable can be installed in either direction. With the new pj in the chain you may have to take a closer look at the settings to make sure it is outputting 1080 only. Also, make sure there aren't any sharp bends in your cable installation because bend radius can affect signal propagation.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
If your AVR offers you the ability to toggle the HDMI Outputs between A and B rather than A+B that often fixes this type of problem, ideally the command to toggle the Output is s top level button on the AVR remote.

You can also try the less featured Input on the projector and if all else fails inset a Dr HDMI or DR HDMI 4K from HDF between the AVR and the Projector.

HDFury Dr HDMI 4K - The Media Factory

Joe
 

RobinDB

Active Member
Ok, thanks, I have not come across active cables like this or the Dr. Hdmi

I tried again this evening.
Strange thing is the home menu page of the sony blu-ray player does NOT display. (on projector)
However its set to autoplay on insertion of disk.

The video DOES play and I can see image.(on projector)
Stop the DVD and no home page.

Joe I will look at the AVR see if it has the toggle you mentioned.
 

Jack MacDougall

Standard Member
Ok, thanks, I have not come across active cables like this or the Dr. Hdmi

I tried again this evening.
Strange thing is the home menu page of the sony blu-ray player does NOT display. (on projector)
However its set to autoplay on insertion of disk.

The video DOES play and I can see image.(on projector)
Stop the DVD and no home page.

Joe I will look at the AVR see if it has the toggle you mentioned.
Quick note on the video playback/homepage issue. This is very typical issue with HDMI (specifically long reach, 5m+). HDMI dynamically changes the bitrate up and down and is content dependent. For example, it is very common to see movie playback running at <11Gbps 4K30 10bit (HDR) 4:2:0...then when playback ends, the menus may run at 4K60 8bit (SDR) 4:4:4 which runs at the full 18Gbps (depending on the UHD player settings, for example).

Some HDMI extenders simply apply a fixed equalization that can have issues with some datarates and no issues with others (in conjunction with cables connected in front of them). This bitrate "shift" is quite stressful signal recovery methods, thus choosing the right extension method is critical.
 

RobinDB

Active Member
Ok, the original problem was sorted. Turned out to be a setting issue on the bluray player.

However I am not getting HDR 10 bit to projector from media box and bluray. (showing 8 bits only).
HDR movies are not, just a little off colour.

This morning I received an active 10M 18ghz cable which I am going to install over the next few days.
Hopefully this will resolve issue I am having.
 

Jack MacDougall

Standard Member
Right - in AVR's it's even tougher to adjust this setting (need to access the factory settings upon setup to apply 18Gbps 4K60 4:4:4....they obviously do this to minimum black screens out of the box...but in the end the quality is downgraded).

Good luck with your 10m 18Gbps :) Do me a favour (if you're willing), attempt to put your setting back to the full 4:4:4 capability and see if this new 10m/18G cable does the job (look for sparkles/dropouts on main menu screen). If it doesn't for whatever reason, always here to help at Pixelgen.
 

RobinDB

Active Member
Ok, will let you know how it goes.
In the denon setup there is an enhance HDMI option, I dont think there is a direct 4:4:4 setting.
Screenshot 2019-10-28 at 17.32.30.png
 
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Otto Pylot

Active Member
24Ghz or 24Gbps? HDMI 2.0 is standardized to 18Gbps. There are no independently validated cables that can provide more than the 18Gbps required for HDMI 2.0 regardless of what the cable mfr product description indicates.
 

Jack MacDougall

Standard Member
There is a play out there for "24G" that I morally oppose (it's due to the fact that some cables companies active solutions cannot push >24G...therefore "viola!" new product at 24G :)

...This would 'only' give you 4K60 12-bit 4:4:4...but could not support 8K60 12bit 4:2:0 for example (DV future format - theoretically)

I believe all cable interconnect solutions should cover the full feature-set of the spec it is supporting (i.e. HDMI 2.1, 48G)
 

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RobinDB

Active Member
You are right but I am not on the 8k train at this time and with screen size, viewing distance and equipment I have 4K viewing is pushing limit (well just over) as my eyesight due to age is not going to be the best. I did however buy a 8K capable cable for between my media player and amp at same time.

The cost of cables is rocketing up, getting same price as some equipment.
 
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Otto Pylot

Active Member
There is a play out there for "24G" that I morally oppose (it's due to the fact that some cables companies active solutions cannot push >24G...therefore "viola!" new product at 24G :)

...This would 'only' give you 4K60 12-bit 4:4:4...but could not support 8K60 12bit 4:2:0 for example (DV future format - theoretically)

I believe all cable interconnect solutions should cover the full feature-set of the spec it is supporting (i.e. HDMI 2.1, 48G)
That would be the ideal situation but unfortunately there are no validated consumer devices that "48Gbps" cables can be tested on, and that is one of the biggest stumbling blocks that cable mfrs are having now is taking their testing out of the labs and actually using them on consumer devices, regardless of what the cable mfr claims. Besides, without any content that requires the 48Gbps bandwidth it's senseless at this point in time. Personally, I'd just stick with cables (copper, fiber, or hybrid fiber) that are known to work well, given the length restrictions, with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets. Cable mfrs have been able to have the connector ends submitted for HDMI 2.1 CTS testing for quite some time now but there are still some issues that need to be resolved.
 

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