Hdmi cable for EARC

Adziadam

Active Member
I have a monoprice active HDMI cable which conforms to the high-speed HDMI certification. When reviewing the spec it only mentions 32 audio channels 'ARC'.
Given this fact, I'm taking it that EARC cannot be used with this cable when transferring lossless audio with the new gaming consoles right? So I would need to run 2 Ultra-high-speed cables 1 from console to tv and then 1 from av to tv right for this to work?
 

chenks

Member
any 18Gbps certified cable should be fine when using eARC.
there are currently no 48Gbps certified cables.
 

Adziadam

Active Member
any 18Gbps certified cable should be fine when using eARC.
there are currently no 48Gbps certified cables.
I guess I am in luck then as mine is 18gbs, will test it out once I get my ps5 it's a shame Sony has snuffed the cinema community but time will tell.

Thanks :)
 

Otto Pylot

Member
eARC is one of those "HDMI 2.1" options sets that is possible with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr allowed for that with an upgrade. As long as the HDMI cables is "with ethernet" ARC should work but eARC needs to be supported by the source and sink devices if you want to use that option, and you have to connect the HDMI cable to the ARC/eARC lableld HDMI ports on your source and sink devices. Keep in mind that certification is only possible on passive cables up to 25'.
 

Adziadam

Active Member
eARC is one of those "HDMI 2.1" options sets that is possible with the HDMI 2.0 chipsets if the device mfr allowed for that with an upgrade. As long as the HDMI cables is "with ethernet" ARC should work but eARC needs to be supported by the source and sink devices if you want to use that option, and you have to connect the HDMI cable to the ARC/eARC lableld HDMI ports on your source and sink devices. Keep in mind that certification is only possible on passive cables up to 25'.
Im getting a demon 4500h and i have a c9 so those boxes are ticked. The HDMI lead is this one Cabernet Ultra Series Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] HDR 18Gbps 28AWG YCbCr 4:4:4 CL2 Black by Monoprice at 25ft it mentions arc only which threw me off a bit but I'm assuming EARC can work then given the comments.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
Being an active cable I would not assume it will work with an eARC TV and AVR/Soundbar until you have had a chance to test it out.

Joe
 

Otto Pylot

Member
Im getting a demon 4500h and i have a c9 so those boxes are ticked. The HDMI lead is this one Cabernet Ultra Series Active High Speed HDMI Cable - [email protected] HDR 18Gbps 28AWG YCbCr 4:4:4 CL2 Black by Monoprice at 25ft it mentions arc only which threw me off a bit but I'm assuming EARC can work then given the comments.
You can't assume eARC will work. From HDMI.org:

eARC is not defined as to be backwards compatible with ARC. Compatibility for both is up to the individual device mfrs. Maximum bandwidth requirement for audio is 37Gbps.

At 25', why are you looking at an active cable? They do not offer any better performance than a Premium High Speed HDMI cable at the same length. Active cables have chipsets in the source/sink end that may not play nice with the C9 and Denon receivers given the recent issues with some buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets. If you can keep your run under 25', and only are concerned with the HDMI 2.0 options (eARC is possible if the device mfrs included that) then I'd look at a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable with ethernet (should be included but check to make sure).
 

Adziadam

Active Member
You can't assume eARC will work. From HDMI.org:

eARC is not defined as to be backwards compatible with ARC. Compatibility for both is up to the individual device mfrs. Maximum bandwidth requirement for audio is 37Gbps.

At 25', why are you looking at an active cable? They do not offer any better performance than a Premium High Speed HDMI cable at the same length. Active cables have chipsets in the source/sink end that may not play nice with the C9 and Denon receivers given the recent issues with some buggy HDMI 2.1 chipsets. If you can keep your run under 25', and only are concerned with the HDMI 2.0 options (eARC is possible if the device mfrs included that) then I'd look at a passive Premium High Speed HDMI cable.
[/QUOTE
I guess I messed up when choosing a cable I wanted a decent certified one and monoprice had that one in stock. Looking at the spec of the passive ones it mentions ethernet whereas the one i have doesn't so i guess i am going to have to buy another cable :(
 

Adziadam

Active Member
I have ordered a different one with ethernet I guess this is the reason why when I was messing about with ARC one day I never got it to work with my x2600h Denon.
 

Otto Pylot

Member
I have ordered a different one with ethernet I guess this is the reason why when I was messing about with ARC one day I never got it to work with my x2600h Denon.
You have to make sure that the cable supports ARC and the devices in-between the cable supports ARC and you are using the HDMI ports that are specifically labeled for ARC. The ethernet channel was never used by the industry for HDMI so it has only come to use now with the advent of eARC, which uses that channel.

Even so, ARC is still associated with CEC on a lot of systems to you need to have them both enabled or disabled. A lot of issues in the past with ARC wasn't necessarily due to ARC, it was a problem with CEC that affected ARC. The cable is just the data pipe. It can't affect anything other than successfully transmit whatever data is sent to it from the source/sink.
 

Adziadam

Active Member
You have to make sure that the cable supports ARC and the devices in-between the cable supports ARC and you are using the HDMI ports that are specifically labeled for ARC. The ethernet channel was never used by the industry for HDMI so it has only come to use now with the advent of eARC, which uses that channel.

Even so, ARC is still associated with CEC on a lot of systems to you need to have them both enabled or disabled. A lot of issues in the past with ARC wasn't necessarily due to ARC, it was a problem with CEC that affected ARC. The cable is just the data pipe. It can't affect anything other than successfully transmit whatever data is sent to it from the source/sink.
It's annoying how things cannot be simplified everything HDMI is a mess so I can easily see why some mess up which in my case was me. It's annoying how CEC has to be enabled to allow ARC on my C9 as I use a Logitech Harmony remote so I really don't need the tv to turn on etc.. with the HDMI functions. I think transparency is needed for the future a cable as the naming scheme has gone bizarre like "Highspeed and Ultra Highspeed" it's a bit like the USB drama with 3.0/3.1.

I went with this cable in the end Certified Premium High Speed HDMI Cable [email protected] HDR 18Gbps 28AWG YUV 4:4:4 by Monoprice if f you wanted to check it out 15ft this time as i have a lot of slack on the 25ft so i am wasting efficiency in technical speak.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
HDMI for the most part is brilliant - if you care to dig out your old VCR and have a look at Composite video you will get the point :)

ARC always relied on CEC and unfortunately the hardware manufacturers were allowed to play at silly buggers when it came to CEC.

High Speed, Premium High Speed and Ultra High Speed are pretty clear - especially Ultra High Speed which you will require for many of the New Features which 'Next Gen' games consoles will offer.


eARC is likely the way forward for many systems.

Joe
 

Otto Pylot

Member
I agree with Joe on eARC, but it still has a ways to go as far as ease of use and distance. Ultra High Speed HDMI cables will be what is needed for some of the HDMI 2.1 option sets going forward. The only drawback is that you will be limited to a 15' maximum, the cables will be passive and the wire gauge will be thicker so they won't be as flexible.
 

Adziadam

Active Member
I agree with Joe on eARC, but it still has a ways to go as far as ease of use and distance. Ultra High Speed HDMI cables will be what is needed for some of the HDMI 2.1 option sets going forward. The only drawback is that you will be limited to a 15' maximum, the cables will be passive and the wire gauge will be thicker so they won't be as flexible.
Yes, 2.1 is going to be expensive to run past 3m, that is depending on if the cable actually works will have to sit and wait before getting my cables run through walls as i don't want a disaster.
 

Otto Pylot

Member
Yes, 2.1 is going to be expensive to run past 3m, that is depending on if the cable actually works will have to sit and wait before getting my cables run through walls as i don't want a disaster.
If you're going to run your cabling thru the walls (I assume you mean in-wall) then installing conduit is almost an absolute must. Chances are you will be swapping out your cabling sooner than expected and having your cabling installed in a conduit, with a pull string, is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. It is much easier and safer to install cabling and it is easier to control bend radius as well. I fear you are going to have to wait quite awhile before there are cables that work reliably for the HDMI 2.1 options at long lengths, especially if you look towards the active hybrid fiber cables.
 

Adziadam

Active Member
If you're going to run your cabling thru the walls (I assume you mean in-wall) then installing conduit is almost an absolute must. Chances are you will be swapping out your cabling sooner than expected and having your cabling installed in a conduit, with a pull string, is the ONLY way to future proof your cabling. It is much easier and safer to install cabling and it is easier to control bend radius as well. I fear you are going to have to wait quite awhile before there are cables that work reliably for the HDMI 2.1 options at long lengths, especially if you look towards the active hybrid fiber cables.
I had a chat with an installer and as the tv is on the fireplace, with alcoves either side best option for future proof is to drill a diagonal hole through the brick and into the alcove with a long drill bit and put some brush plates either side. This means i will be able to simply pull and push through new cables when required. Everything has been on hold until i get the new console and finish my setup as i don't really want to faff around at a later date.
 

Otto Pylot

Member
I had a chat with an installer and as the tv is on the fireplace, with alcoves either side best option for future proof is to drill a diagonal hole through the brick and into the alcove with a long drill bit and put some brush plates either side. This means i will be able to simply pull and push through new cables when required. Everything has been on hold until i get the new console and finish my setup as i don't really want to faff around at a later date.
Brush plates are a good idea. As long as you don't have any sharp bends that should work fine. I'd throw in a pull string just in case you want to run some extra cabling (solid core CAT-6 for example) and maybe drill the hole a little bigger than you need to give yourself plenty of clearance for the cable's connector ends because you don't want to be pulling on them, especially if you go the active route.
 

Adziadam

Active Member
Brush plates are a good idea. As long as you don't have any sharp bends that should work fine. I'd throw in a pull string just in case you want to run some extra cabling (solid core CAT-6 for example) and maybe drill the hole a little bigger than you need to give yourself plenty of clearance for the cable's connector ends because you don't want to be pulling on them, especially if you go the active route.
Yeh I think I can get away with 3 -5m of cabling not sure yet until I decide on the cabinets I want made. I'm defiantly going to run a backup hdmi cable no matter what the cost is
 

Otto Pylot

Member
The solid core, UTP, CAT-6/6a (non-CCS/CCA and not pre-terminated ethernet) cable can be used either for extending an ethernet connection by terminating with punch down keystone jacks or used to extend an HDMI connection by terminating with something like HDBT. Just give yourself a decent service loop in the j-boxes at either end for easy termination.
 

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