Question HDMI / Audio Connectivity Help

bardel

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Hi all,

I've had my AV setup in place for some time now (thread link in footer I think). However, some time back (like 2 years), I ditched my HTPC and moved over to Sky so that I could get F1 and more channels for the kids (using Freeview on the HTPC).

Since then, my AV life has been a misery (mostly because I don't get to spend the time I want to listening to music / watching movies). The misery here is because that my replacements for the HTPC all have only 1 HDMI out!

If you can bear with me, I've outlined the remainder of the kit below and some changes over time, as well as a diagram showing how I think it would be best to set it up going forward.

I also had an older Sony Amp driving the Dining Room previously which didn't have any HDMI connectivity. This has been replaced with a Yamaha RX-V673 which can be used to switch HDMI.

My preferred audio / visual activity in the lounge is watching movies on the projector using the OPPO DAC's into the Rotel processor and Amps. Note that all of the Rotel equipment does not support HDMI.

So the problem that I have is that currently, I don't have a switch as indicated in the diagram, and that the Sky box is typically plugged into the Lounge TV. Any desire to watch Sky in the dining room, or via the projector requires swapping cables. :(

Equally, the AppleTV and Xbox 1 (very rarely used) both have free hanging HDMI cables which are either plugged into the front of the lounge TV, the front of the Yamaha Amp (whose only HDMI out is currently connected to the dining room TV), or into the front of the Oppo if I want to use the projector!

So typically, Sky+ into lounge TV and Oppo into PJ is where I need things and that works as is, but I have no flexibility without changing cables and I want to resolve that.

I'm also looking at my AV cupboard and thinking that since I got the OPPO and removed the HTPC, that my Rotel RSP-1090 processor has turned into a very large volume control knob only, as I leave the DAC duties to the OPPO now and the OPPO could be connected directly to the Rotel Amps instead.

SO I've come up with the attached diagram, which I think with the introduction of a 4 way HDMI splitter for day to day duties of the Sky+, AppleTV and Xbox 1 (as well as Oppo input to allow watching BD / DVD on the TV's rather than the PJ) is the ideal solution for me.

My query is regarding the ARC that I've indicated between the Oppo and Yamaha, I believe they both support ARC, but I'm not familiar with it. My question is therefore, with this approach will I be able to route the audio from the Sky+, AppleTV, Xbox1 so that I can have the audio coming out of the main speakers in the lounge when I want to watch one of those devices on the projector?

Alternatively, if someone can see a simpler / more logical approach they want to suggest then please do. I haven't yet sourced an HDMI switch as I wanted to check that this will work with you guys before I dive in, so again any recommendations gratefully received.

Thanks

Barry

av_setup.png
 
I think that I follow what you are trying to do however I see a possible issue.

ARC is implemented on the "HDMI out" of the RX-V673 AVR and as such as laid out in the above diagram it would be looking for a signal coming back from the HDMI splitter - and not sending a audio feed to the OPPO which would be connected to a "HDMI In".

What I think you need is a to replace the splitter with a 2x4 HDMI Matrix with the AVR and OPPO (2nd HDMI Out) being the inputs and the Projector / 3xTV's being the outputs.

Oppo (1st HDMI Out), SKY, Apple and XBONE all connect to the AVR.

This would give you the ability to play any source through any display device with audio being delivered via the AVR and/or ROTEL.

Connecting the OPPO as an input to the Matrix allows this to also feed all of the displays directly utilising internal audio.

For the audio side of things, I'm sad to say that I think you need to change the AVR to one with pre-outs that can also feed the ROTEL 1090 - something like the RXV779 would do.
 
Your proposed setup is unlikely to work - Audio in particular is all over the place in terms of Source and Sink (Display device) capabilities.

Ignoring what kit you do/don't have which Sources do you need to see/hear/operate in your three Zones (Lounge, Dining Room and Bedroom)?

Joe
 
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Ok, I didn't see that the Yamaha ARC is on the HDMI Out, makes perfect sense though.

So I've re-done the diagram, in a way in which I think solves my problems, however, it means keeping the Oppo on for all sources which isn't ideal. The reason for this is that I need a "basic" option which is Sky on the lounge TV (which I was hoping to achieve using the Yamaha HDMI1 pass-thru), so that when technophobes want to watch the telly, they can just turn the TV on and use the Sky remote.

Joe, the Xbox is not important, it's probably not even plugged in 11+ months of the year! I can always plug into the front of the TV HDMI, or into the Oppo / Yamaha front HDMI if I want to use the PJ. Bedroom TV is also a nice to have. I do want to be able to watch Sky on the Lounge TV in idiot fashion (as mentioned above), and Sky, AppleTV, Oppo on any / both lounge (PJ or TV) and dining room TV without unplugging cables.

Control wise, I got fed up with my Harmony One (IR) because of having to maintain the line of sight to too long whilst it worked through all the necessary commands / delays to get everything where it needs to be. I am considering the newer Harmony One (RF) and the black box that goes with it in the kit cupboard in the hope that it would remove this previous frustration. Happy to hear suggestions though.

Thanks

Barry
av_setup-2.png
 
Always better to split and distribute Sources before you go near the AVR(s) - keeps things simple and avoids any audio issues.

Plan A + B both look like you may end up sending Stereo audio from SKY to the two AVR's

Your mix of Analogue Processor, HDMI Matrix and 'third' TV is a bit of a nightmare when it comes to managing audio!

Could you put a budget HDMI equipped, HD Audio capable Soundbar in the Bedroom?

Joe
 
Hi Joe,

I don't follow why I'll be sending stereo from Sky in any path? All the connections are via HDMI only.

I may have not been clear in the use of the audio paths (green). The intention is to use the Rotel audio path only for the projector (the speaker arrangement in the lounge ties in with the projector). When watching the TV in the lounge, we're happy using the TV speakers.

So in the event of using any source onto the PJ in the lounge, the video and audio will be carried via HDMI all the way through to the Oppo, where the Oppo will break the audio into 7.1 analogue and feed to the Rotel at the same time as breaking the video out to the JVC HDMI out.

When watching the TV in the lounge or dining room, the audio would be played through the TV's.

In the dining room, there is a Bose Acoustimass 10 system (not particularly a fan of it by the way), which currently I only really use for listening to music in the dining room, I'm not that fussed about using it for 5.1 movie viewing in the dining room.

The dining room requirements are largely to satisfy kids TV requirements, or the wife watching reality rubbish when she's doing stuff in the kitchen / dinning room.

Also, you mention changing the audio in the bedroom to a HDMI equipped sound bar. Can I ask, why is delivery audio over HDMI to the sound bar any different to delivering the audio to the TV over HDMI???

Thanks
 
HDMI can only carry one type of audio stream at a time, in the case of SKY PCM Stereo or 5.1 therefore if you split the HDMI signal and dont have a 5.1 capable audio device at each TV location there is a good chance you wont get any audio at that device when a 5.1 track is being used.
 
So in my 2nd example then.

1st Scenario, Watching Sky on the PJ and using the Rotel...

Sky > AVR (5.1 capable) > Oppo (5.1 capable). Audio at this point then converted inside Oppo to analogue and sent to Rotel. Is there any reason why the audio being sent through from the Sky box would only be Stereo assuming the Lounge / Dining Room / Bedroom TV's are switched off?

2nd scenario, Watching Sky on the Dining Room TV...

SKY > AVR (5.1 capable) > Oppo (5.1 capable) > HDMI Splitter (5.1 capable???) > Dining Room TV (Stereo Only). I think you are saying that there may be no stereo audio available at the TV in this scenario? Alternatively, the Sky box has to be set to stereo output to get stereo audio available at the TV end? So I either use the AVR audio output and get 5.1 (but may have sync issues), or have to force the Sky box to stereo output?

If the above is true, that's not a deal breaker, nothing worthy of 5.1 on Sky anyway! In fact, wouldn't surprise me if I've ever even tried to use 5.1 from Sky, it's only really been plugged into the TV previously.
 
Sky > AVR (5.1 capable) > Oppo (5.1 capable). Audio at this point then converted inside Oppo to analogue and sent to Rotel. Is there any reason why the audio being sent through from the Sky box would only be Stereo assuming the Lounge / Dining Room / Bedroom TV's are switched off?

Just force it to be 5.1 by default its set to auto so should work ok

SKY > AVR (5.1 capable) > Oppo (5.1 capable) > HDMI Splitter (5.1 capable???) > Dining Room TV (Stereo Only). I think you are saying that there may be no stereo audio available at the TV in this scenario? Alternatively, the Sky box has to be set to stereo output to get stereo audio available at the TV end? So I either use the AVR audio output and get 5.1 (but may have sync issues), or have to force the Sky box to stereo output?

Force sky to stereo

However same issue applies to bedroom TV.
 
So to clarify, if I just force the Sky box to stereo for normal use (which is fine by me), all 3 TV's will have stereo audio available at them for output through the TV speakers. (I can't see why the bedroom would be any different?).

And then, if I really feel the need to watch a movie that's on the Sky box in 5.1, I would watch it on the PJ and use the Oppo DAC's > Rotel, for which I'd need to switch the Sky box to 5.1?

If so I can live with that.

I'd still like to find a solution where I don't need to keep the Oppo on for day to day Sky viewing though?

Thanks
 
Is your Rotel Processor the RSP-1098?

How long and what type of cables do you have running to the Projector, Lounge TV, Dining Room TV and Bedroom TV?

Joe
 
AClass, care to explain how you would implement a new AVR to resolve "the problem" please?

Hi Joe, yes typo in the diagram, Rotel is RSP-1098. To be honest, it's become defunct other than to serve as a volume control as I now only route analogue to it from the Oppo as I prefer the Oppo 105 DAC's - the Rotel doesn't support HDMI either, so limited to 5.1 (in digital form) and I have a 7.1 setup now. The Oppo now supports volume control, so theoretically I can remove the RSP-1098 and go straight from the Oppo to the Power Amps.

I have most cables running to each of the termination points. This is from my DIY build feed Post 72)
  • PJ Feed (2 x HDMI, 1 x RGB Component, 1 x VGA, 1 x CAT 5, 1 x 12v Trigger, 1 x IR repeater)
  • Plasma Feed (2 x HDMI, 1 x RGB Component, 1 x VGA, 1 x Co-Ax Arial, 1 x Sat Cable, 1 x Optical Audio, 1 x Cat 5, 1 x IR repeater)
  • LCD Feed - Dining Room Pos 1 (2 x HDMI, 1 x RGB Component, 1 x VGA, 1 x Coax Arial, 1 x Cat 5, 1 x IR Repeater, 1 x Centre Channel Speaker Wire)
  • LCD Feed - Dining Room Pos 2 (2 x HDMI, 1 x RGB Component, 1 x VGA, 1 x Coax Arial, 1 x Cat 5, 1 x IR Repeater, 1 x Centre Channel Speaker Wire)
  • Dining Room Speakers (4 x Speaker Wires)
  • Lounge Surround Speakers (4 x Speaker Wires)
  • Mains Spurs (PJ, Plasma TV, PJ Screen)
  • Mains Feed (Dedicated Circuit from Consumer Board)
  • Network (4 x Cat5 feed from garage)
  • Other odds (2 x Coax ariel feeds from loft, Telephone Point)
Thanks
 
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Replace your Yamaha RXV673 with an AVR that also supports multi-channel analogue pre-outs - such as the RXV779 as per my earlier post.

Use the analogue pre-outs to drive the ROTEL and have all sources connected to the AVR (inc. the OPPO) - the RXV779 has two HDMI out's so you can connect one to the PJ and the second via a splitter to the 3 TV's.

Alternately send one of the OPPO HDMI outs directly to the PJ (the second to the AVR), have a dedicated HDMI connection to the lounge TV and split the second RXV779 HDMI out between the dining room and the bedroom.
 
Sorry Ghostrider, having changed up from the Rotel processing to use the Oppo 105 for DAC duties I wouldn't be prepared to delegate this to the Yamaha. The Yamaha in my setup was a cheap amp to provide everyday music in the dining room.

My primary AV requirements are to use the Oppo and Rotel Amps with the PJ, everything else is ancillary and I don't care so much for the quality of those other outputs, but I do want convenience.

The Rotel RSP-1098 is likely going to be removed, since a firmware update on the OPPO 105 some time after I purchased it allows it to volume control the pre-outs meaning I can go straight from the Oppo to the Rotel power amps and skip the now redundant Rotel processor.

So to recap... I'm looking for a solution to easy my everyday AV consumption in multiple rooms. The only benefit I can see to the 779 is that it has 2 HDMI outputs, but this is overkill for splitting 1 HDMI to 2 no?

I don't understand why feedback has been so focused on the analogue side, my problem is with the HDMI switching.

Ok, another variation of the diagram. Pretty much going back to the first one, but correcting my mis-understanding of the ARC. Essentially, use the existing AVR as a switch for the sources, into a 4 way HDMI splitter, put 1 of those outputs into the Oppo HDMI In. In effect, if you ignore the dashed red HDMI lines, I have two independent systems, the Oppo / Rotel / PJ for the lounge cinema setup, and then the other sources + Yamaha + Splitter for everything else.

For convenience, on occasions I may want to watch / listen to a CD/DVD/DB on something other than the PJ, and sometimes, I may want to watch / listen to something from one of the "other" sources on the PJ / Rotel. Do the dashed HDMI lines would provide this?

My concern now is, with both the dashed red HDMI's introduced, what would happen if I stupidly selected the Oppo as the source on the Yamaha and set the Oppo to use it's HDMI in (which is fed from the Yamaha), thus creating a loop? Obviously I wouldn't intentionally do this as it serves no purpose, but I wouldn't want it to go bang!
av_setup-5.png
 
What I suspect you need is really a 4x4 hdmi matrix to give you any input to any output .

Having a splitter after the AVR is going to be an issue especially with the loop back
 
Oppo DAC - is confusing your planning!

There is no benefit to using the Oppo with the SKY box HDMI as the Bedroom TV and quest for simplicity on your other TV's currently dictate you set the SKY box to 2.0 via HDMI.

Do the SKY and ATV sound that different via the Oppo vs using Optical to the Rotel?

Joe
 
Hi Joe, Oppo DAC is not confusing my planning... I'm well aware it's only being used for the 7.1 surround in the lounge... Ghost rider's suggestion dictated using the Yamaha DAC's vs the Oppo.

I couldn't really give a monkeys how TV sounds, only interested in quality when watching movies or listening to 2 channel audio which is always via the Oppo / Rotel (using Oppo DAC, Rotel is only connected to the Oppo via analogue).

My quest is to keep the lounge audio as is (albeit I will likely remove the Rotel RSP-1098 and go direct from the Oppo to the power amps), but to get some convenience on my TV HDMI switching (even if it's in lowly 2.0 stereo!).

Appreciate your continued input though. :)
 
What I suspect you need is really a 4x4 hdmi matrix to give you any input to any output .

Having a splitter after the AVR is going to be an issue especially with the loop back

Hi Aclass,

Can you provide any grounding to either of your statements? eg. How does a 4x4 matrix solve my problem compared to the Yamaha switch + 4 way output splitter? I'm not 100% sure on the features of a matrix, is it simply the same as a switch + splitter, or does it allow simultaneous discreet connections, e.g. (input 1 > output 1 & 2 + input 3 > output 3 & 4 at the same time)? If so, that's probably overkill for my needs.

Can you explain why using a split after an AVR is an issue, presumably this is what these things are designed for? I can understand the potential for audio sync issues if the audio was being extracted at the AVR, but it's not it's all HDMI in these scenarios except for the PJ / 7.1 option in the lounge?

Obviously the loopback is a bit of a faux par, but I wouldn't intentionally try to use it, I just want to know if it's safe to use in this configuration and won't blow anything up! :)

Thanks

Barry
 
Connectivity - if I'm following your system usage I'm not seeing a reason to loop SKY, ATV or the Xbox via the Oppo.

I'm seeing two systems:

Theatre System - Oppo > Rotel + JVC

Whole House system - SKY/ATV/Xbox to Lounge TV, Dining Room TV and Bedroom TV..

Add in a 4x4 Matrix to the 'Whole House' system and you can view/listen to the three Sources on any of your three TV's.

The Matrix allows any Source to any Zone.

Add in Optical cables between the three sources and the Yamaha AVR and you can have DD/DTS in the Dining Room.

Use the second HDMI Output on the Oppo to the Matrix or add in a budget BD Player for use around the house via the Matrix.

Joe
 
Thanks Joe.

I guess I'm looking for all things to be possible, but you're right, they are really two systems.

On odd occasions, I might want to throw the AppleTV or Sky up on the PJ, hence the loop into the Oppo input. Equally on odd occasions, I might want to put a kids DVD on in the dining room.

I think a 2nd budget bd player for the whole house might be a good suggestion, I really don't want to configure this in a way where the Oppo becomes a default part of the whole house solution.

I don't think I have a need to watch different sources on different TV's in the whole house solution at the same time currently, so presumably I can stick with the AVR and a splitter as 4x4 matrix seems to be considerably more expensive?

The inclusion of the Optical cables to the AVR for DD/DTS in the dining room is a good shout, I only use the dining room speakers for a bit of background music only currently.

Thanks again.
 
A Splitter will do the trick - I'd place it on the Input side of the AVR rather than on the Output side of the AVR, taking everything to the AVR before you split potentially can cause more EDID and HDCP conflicts plus requires the AVR to be in a particular config to ensure you get the signal to all of the Displays.

A Matrix is very flexible where you have a few folk around the house,

Joe
 
Hi Joe,

Your last comment has me confused - if you put the splitter on the input to the AVR how do you connect the AVR output to the 3 TV's? Surely that's the point of having the splitter in the first place?
 
Hi Ghostrider

My bad - not being clear enough on wanting to use a Matrix rather than a Distribution Amp (splitter).

I wouldn't be trying to split the Output of the AVR - I'd either split the SKY box (and have the ATV and XBOX dedicated to the AVR) or use the Matrix to allow all three Sources to any of the three Zones.

Joe
 

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