HDMI Aspect Ratio Menu Setting?

Discussion in 'Satellite TV, Sky TV & FreeSat' started by HDPete, Apr 18, 2007.

  1. HDPete

    HDPete
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    Hi all.

    The projector is now up and running thanks to a new cable. The PJ is set to force 16:9 aspect ratio for HDMI in.

    The HD box on Sky One HD and viewing Simpsons is outputting 4:3. When the ads kick in, the picture is 16:9 as expected.

    On my old digibox I could force everything to 16:9 and I got used to the stretched images of 4:3, but I can't find a setting for the HDMI. I have set 16:9 for the Scart and RF2 outputs in 4 Settings / 1 Picture, but can't find a similar setting for HDMI.

    I would like everything to fill my screen irrespective of its native aspect ratio.

    Any ideas, or is this a known omission?
    (a search didn't reveal anything)

    Thanks
    Pete
     
  2. Andy98765

    Andy98765
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    On HDMI you normally only get the correct aspect up and thats it. I know you got used to it, but boy does any picture in stretchy mode look crap, I am off down the pub to watch football in a minute and they have stretchy mode, god I hate it.
     
  3. wandersen

    wandersen
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    Depends on your projector / TV. Many models now allow aspect ratio swtiching over HDMI. It's not really a fault with the Sky Box.
     
  4. mmace

    mmace
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    I think you're seeing the awful 14:9 that Sky do on Sky One HD with 4:3 programmes.

    unfortunately there's nothing that can be done, the black bars are part of the picture, but they're not big enough.

    The picture should be 4:3, we shouldn't have to have the top & bottom chopped off.

    People have bought HD because they want a better picture, we shouldn't have anything stretched just so it fills the screen and we certainly shouldn't have anything cropped.

    Those that bought HD and then stretch 4:3 to fill a 16:9 screen should be shot (figure of speech, not literally!)
     
  5. J Roadley

    J Roadley
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    I beg to differ...










    They should be shot...
     
  6. HDPete

    HDPete
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    Maff, Thanks - that's exactly what I think I am seeing. Looks like i'm in the hands of the broadcasters then.
     
  7. HDPete

    HDPete
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    I also agree. I hate seeing wasted space on the screen and can adapt my viewing to accept a stretched 4:3 image. What I don't like is a 16:9 image anamorphically stretched vertically to fit a 4:3 panel.
     
  8. mmace

    mmace
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    you don't agree then, 4:3 should be kept 4:3, not stretched to fit a 16:9 screen, that's what we're saying

    you buy HD because you want a superior picture, yet people stretch 4:3 programmes so everything's distorted

    IMO if a Sky box is set for a widescreen TV then the black bars should be added to the sides of a 4:3 broadcast and people should be forced to watch it how it's made/broadcast
    All channels should have the ability to broadcast in widescreen so if the source is widescreen then it's shown that way, but if it's 4:3 it should be 4:3 and not stretched
     
  9. CDM

    CDM
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    I also totally agree that each and every channel showed be viewed in exactly the format that it was first broadcast in. A stretched 4:3 image to fill a 16:9 space is completely crap.

    The TV/broadcast industry have really dropped the ball on this. What we're currently left with is a complete disaster that ruins the TV watching experience.
     
  10. dalespitfire

    dalespitfire
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    And what "true HD" programming have you seen broadcast in 4:3?

    Does it really matterwhat people do with there SD images? Particularly those with plasmas that don't want to suffer retention.
     
  11. mmace

    mmace
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    I wasn't talking about HD, but there was King Kong on BBC HD in 4:3.
    SD 4:3 is still 4:3, I don't see why people would want to watch a distorted image, especially HD viewers who obviously want the best picture quality as they have bought an HD box
     
  12. BIGbungle

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    true:clap:
     
  13. simon194

    simon194
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    I just want to know why the HD box doesn't set the format correctly when there is a 4:3 source. The box can identify 4:3 broadcasts otherwise it wouldn't set the correct AR via scart, so why can't it produce a 4:3 image in a 16:9 frame. My upscaling DVD player manages OK so what's the problem with the Sky box?

    Is there a problem with the hardware or what?
     
  14. J Roadley

    J Roadley
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    Casablanca
    Robin Hood

    While it's not a 4:3 pic, it's 16:9 pillarboxed - it's how it should be done.

    Plus most films from the 40's and 50's that have popped up on US HD channels and how I want to watch those films.
     
  15. dalespitfire

    dalespitfire
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    Again, I dont get this. Surely HD broadcasts such as Planet Earth containing stunning images and colours are why you got an HD box, not to watch a grainy 60 year old B&W film?:confused:
     
  16. shaithis

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    Its not just SD images, how many DVDs or Sky Movies have you watched that had borders top and bottom?

    You are going to have to deal with the black borders one way or another, easing you plasma in and getting the settings right should mean that you can enjoy OARs without damaging your plasma.
     
  17. Neil Watson

    Neil Watson
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    The SkyHD box does set the correct aspect ratio over HDMI if and only if you use the Auto setting. When this is selected you get the following

    4:3 SD is sent as 576p and the HDMI AR flag is set to 4:3
    16:9 SD is sent as 576p and the HDMI AR flag is set to 16:9
    16:9 HD is sent as 1080i and HDMI AR flag is set to 16:9

    HOWEVER (sorry its in caps but its a biggie :D)

    Whether you see this is up to your TV's interpretation of HDMI. Chances are its configured to always display HDMI signals as 16:9 so despite the 4:3 SD over HDMI having the right AR flag, your TV duly ignores it and you get a stretch piccy :thumbsdow

    Hence in the case of the Auto setting there is abosolutely nothing wrong with the SkyHD box as its doing everything right but the majority of TV's aren't interpretting it right :(


    As to the other resolution settings Sky have rightly interpreted the spec for 720p and 1080i in that these are defined as always being 16:9 which is exactly what you get.

    They have imho wrongly interpreted the fact that by specifically setting the resolution to 720p or 1080i you want the frame to always be completely filled. i.e. upscale SD and in the case of 4:3 SD stretch it to fill the full width too.

    In reality the HDMI spec only needs it to be a 16:9 frame i.e. like your DVD player does its perfectly acceptable to upscale the 4:3 content and pillarbox it so that what your TV recieves is a 960x720 image centered within a 1280x720 frame or 1440x1080 image centered within a 1920x1080 frame with the extra in both cases just being black pixels. i.e. the DVD player is doing the black barring not the TV.

    I think you aren't not alone in the fact that we would like any SD 4:3 content to be vertically upscaled to fill the 720p or 1080i 16:9 frame but be given the option of saying if we'ed like it pillarboxed to retain 4:3 ratio or stretched i.e. the current functionality.

    This is exactly what VM do as you have the choice of 720 or 1080 which retain the orginal aspect ratio and 720wide & 1080wide which stretch 4:3 content to always fill the 16:9 frame i.e. what skyhd do with their current 720p and 1080i settings.

    Just to round up this rant :D the 576 setting on our box does the complete opposite in that both 16:9 and 4:3 content is resized to always be 720x576 which is 4:3 ratio. I.e. tall thin people :thumbsdow

    SO if any Sky employees are reading this :lease: :lease: :lease: implement this so that we can all view the picture over HDMI in the format we'ed like. It can't be that hard when no-name cheap as chips HDMI DVD player's give you this option and anything VM can do surely you can do too :thumbsup:
     
  18. Mike Groves

    Mike Groves
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    Pioneers seem to be one of the TVs that can handle the aspect ratio thing over HDMI. And I like what they do with the side bars for 4:3 AR - they are grey by default, less contrast between picture & bar so there's less likelihood of "screen burn".
     
  19. AndyCob

    AndyCob
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    My Sony 55inch rptv handles all the aspect ratio switching over HDMI perfectly.:thumbsup:

    :nono:
    If I read your problem right you want everything regardless of the aspect ratio sent to the TV displayed as 16:9. You should be able to that with your display rahter than the HD box. The picture format setting in the Sky box options is intended to tell the box the aspect ration of your display, if you have a widescreen 16:9 display then set as 16:9, even then a 4:3 picture is sent as 4:3 with black bars left and right, whether you see it as 4:3 is dependant on your display not the box. If you have a scart connection and scart control set to on and your display is capable and set to auto switch it's aspect ratio you should get 16:9 as 16:9 and 4:3 as 4:3. The same should be true over HDMI provided you have hd resolution output set to automatic, 4:3 should display as 4:3 and 16:9 as 16:9. Oddly SKY ONE HD actually outputs what were 4:3 programs like the simpsons in what appears to be sort of pseudo 14:9, the 4:3 picture has been partly stretched and the top and bottom of the picture has been cropped as it has been scaled to fit 16:9 but still has black bars left and right. I can't think of any reason to do it that way but they have.:eek: :mad:

    If you want eveything displayed as 16:9 go into your displays aspect ratio settings, you will have to consult your manual, most have the option to select how you want 4:3 and 16:9 material displayed seperately, often with an additional option of a default when the display cant tell what the input is. Setting these to 16:9 or zoom or what ever your display chooses to call the appropriate mode should get things how you want.:lesson:
     
  20. J Roadley

    J Roadley
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    Film is the key word you've used. The fact that Warner Bros can take a film 70 years old and produce a breathtaking image which would put most modern HD films to shame is what attracted ME to HD. (That and the sport).

    Each to their own. My main point was that it's perfectly acceptable to take a 4:3 source and display it on a 16:9 screen with black bars down the left and right hand side.
     
  21. Neil Watson

    Neil Watson
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    Samsungs don't :thumbsdow

    For scart the display option dictates what to do when the widescreen signal isn't present. i.e. how you wish 4:3 stuff to be displayed.

    For HDMI (& Component source has the same too) the setting dictates how ALL resolutions are shown. Set it to Widescreen and that's what you get for 16:9 and 4:3 over hdmi regardless of the SkyHD box settings. Set TV to 4:3 for HDMI and that's what you get. fine for 4:3 but 16:9 stuff is pillarboxed and you get tall thin people. Its pretty much a manual aspect ratio function as Samsung totally ignore the hdmi aspect ratio flag :thumbsdow
     

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