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HDMI 4:2:2 interlaced output into Lumagen DVI input

Discussion in 'Projectors, Screens & Video Processors' started by ihan, Jan 17, 2005.

  1. ihan

    ihan
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    Hi,

    According to Lumagen's website the latest firmware may support HDMI 4:2:2 interlaced input. I wondered if anyone has tried this yet? If so, could you please post your thoughts regarding picture quality.

    Gordon could you please post the Arcam DV79 settings which make this possible.

    Many thanks,
    Ian
     
  2. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    Sadly I don't think my Pio868 allows colour-space selection. :(
     
  3. ihan

    ihan
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    Hi,

    If I understand the following Lumagen update correctly, you may be able to use 4:4:4 interlaced RGB!

    Production Release 011405- Adds 480i to DVI inputs (576i capability is there but not tested yet). Adds HDMI component 422 and 444 support (selectable as an input type)--note these were simulated but have not been tested yet. The HD passthru menu (titled SCALE) was moved to the input menu and is now associated with an input memory instead of an output configuration (if you were using this feature in the last release you'll have to set it again). Find the SCALE option on the menu under IN->CONFIG->ADJ->SIZE. Corrections to the default EDID table (pertinent to DVI inputs only). Other minor bugs fixed.

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  4. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    There are folk who have this working in US with the equivalent of the 868. I hope to get Joe to test this now he is back from his hols. I am hoping to have a crack at ths on my DV79 later but I'm rather busy.

    You should be able to force 480i/576i on the DV79 by setting priority to Analogue, turning progressive OFF and then DIGITAL output to YUV. The DV79 might want to see and EDID that says this is supported on the scaler to work though and I don't think that is in yet.


    Gordon
     
  5. KraGorn

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    Did Joe ever get to do that testing? I was hoping to hear from him last week on this very subject but not a dickie bird, maybe he didn't have time.
     
  6. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Tested myself. 480i works but 576 doesn't work as it should. Lumagen have bought a unit to debug this.

    Gordon
     
  7. KraGorn

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    :( .. I saw they'd released a couple of firmware updates recently, the last one seemed to indicate that it was working (having fixed it so that deinterlacing was enabled on DVI).

    A bit shabby they haven't had a testing machine until now since they're selling the machines' capabilities to play PAL, don't you think?

    Thanks for the status report.
     
  8. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Kragorn,

    It plays PAL....They have several PAL units that they test with. PAL and 576i HDMI are not the same thing. There are very few devices that output this signal. They used a test patttern generator to create this signal type in the lab (as will most companies I think you'll find). However not everyone is implimenting the output resolution the same way. Thats why there are so many cases of some devices working in to DVI sockets on displays and some not.........everyone has different ideas of how things should be implimented. The only way to deal with this is on a case by case basis. Im rather glad that they are actually developing the product to work with as many products in the field as they can rather than the more common reply you get from manufacturers of "it's not our fault it's the others guys equipment that's bust.....". Nothiing shabby with that at all....


    Gordon
     
  9. ihan

    ihan
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    I must congratulate Lumagen on purchasing a DV79; I look forward to my HDP working properly with it in PAL mode.

    Gordon, any news on when the 'proper' PAL de-interlacing is likely to be implemented?

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  10. KraGorn

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    So 'i' via HDMI is a risky road to take, they may get it working with one brand (an Arcam presumably going by Ian's comment) but that solution may not work for an 868, is that what you're saying?
     
  11. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Lumagen have not purchased a DV79. They have purchased a Pioneer 868 and are getting a DV79 on loan for a while.

    PAL is implimented. They are working on improving it as you know. This is the main thrust of their work right now. Pat is on the case. I do not have a specific day it will all be finished as it will likely as not never be finished. Everytime someone finds a problem bit on a disc they go see if they can resolve it without breaking anything else. This is true of NTSC as well. I suspect we'll get one or two big improvement updates then they'll move to the HD stuff and the new scaling algo...then after that the last ounce of tweaks will be worked on. Sorry for not beinig more specific

    Gordon
     
  12. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    DVI is a risky business with many devices let alone 480i 576i hdmi. The DVI spec is not designed to support these resolutions. The HDMI spec is but most manufacturers choose not to impliment it. Lumagen have designed the hardware and firmware in their scalers to try to capture the 480i/576i HDMI signal from suitable sources. With only these two mass market players out and both having different coms/timings for the signals they stick it it is tricky....Early days of DVI were the same...look at the amount of folk with 868's that wouldn't work in to Pansonic plasma's...or indeed DV79's that don't with 576P....or how many folk have serious issues with their Denon 3910's trying to get them to talk to their PJ's.....these get resolved eventually with firmware updates from the manufacturers of the sources and sometimes the displays. It's early days for 480i/576i so we need to go through this nasty de-bug process once again....we'll get there though...I'm confident!

    Gordon
     
  13. ihan

    ihan
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    Hi Gordon,

    Thanks for the information. I did not expect detailed released dates, I work in engineering R&D, so I understand that release info is difficult to be certain about.

    Do any of the outstanding issues (interlaced PAL HDMI 4:2:2 and improved PAL deinterlacing) affect your ability to calibrate a system? The only problem I can think of is if future colour space modifications were implemented, which would require an additional calibration.

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  14. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    The only issue I can see right now would be if there was a change to the colourspace of the DVI inputs. However they might do an auto cal procedure for that like they do with the input3/4 terminals. That way the input side is sorted automatically to match the others and the output is already done so no probs....

    Gordon
     
  15. KraGorn

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    Okay, fair point Gordon, I'll try to be patient. :)

    Tell me, you say 480i is working, can you offer a comparison of the results of feeding 480i via component and HDMI from an 868 into something like an H77? Basically I'm trying to get an idea of whether it's worth considering getting one now and using component until they sort it out.

    At present I still have no idea if the 868's DVD decoder is good enough to make a 'direct feed' into a scaler, as opposed to its' own scaler worth the £1000 or so it'll cost .. is the 868 a decent digital transport I guess is my dilemma.
     
  16. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I don't have an 868...I have a DV79...and it's not playing...However don't fear....KROBAR has an 868 with SDI, component and HDMI....I'm sending him an HDMI to DVI lead so he can do some comparisons and let us know what he thinks.


    Gordon
     
  17. KraGorn

    KraGorn
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    That'd be extremely helpful .. I'd consider an SDI mod if there was enough justification in terms of PQ, but I'm hoping that HDMI suffices.

    Sorry, I thought you meant earlier you'd tested with an 868 .. I'm confusing you with Joe :D
     
  18. ihan

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    Hi Gordon,

    I had some spare time today, so I tried to get the Arcam DV79 HDMI interlaced working with my Lumagen HDP. I couldn't get a picture with either a PAL or an NTSC disk.

    I tried the settings you stated:
    "You should be able to force 480i/576i on the DV79 by setting priority to Analogue, turning progressive OFF and then DIGITAL output to YUV."

    As you can imagine, I'm somewhat confused. :confused:

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  19. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Ian: If you follow the threads you'll see that it doesnt work with the Arcams yet. I arranged for Lumagen to get a unt for debugging and it arrived a day or so ago so hopefully they'll have some fixes soon.

    Gordon
     
  20. ihan

    ihan
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    Gordon,

    I've misunderstood one of your previous statements.

    On the previous page you said "Tested myself. 480i works but 576 doesn't work as it should. Lumagen have bought a unit to debug this."

    I understood this to mean the DV79 worked with NTSC and not PAL.

    Thanks for confirming that neither work at this moment in time.

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  21. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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  22. vonhosen

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  23. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    I'm on the road but hope to test this as tomorrow to confirm all is OK.

    Gordon ;)
     
  24. ihan

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    Hi all,

    I can now get an interlaced picture out of the Arcam HDMI socket when set to analogue out, progressive off, digital output:YUV.

    Unfortunately, the picture is not correct. There is visible line tearing in the picture; an obvious and very nasty looking defect that occurs with both PAL & NTSC discs. It is visible even with the stationary Arcam logo screen.

    BTW, I have the latest v5.13.0 Arcam DV79 firmware.

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  25. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Ian,

    I can assure you they do test things thoroughly. Do you think they would release a firmware that exhibited the things you see if they saw it?....(don't answer that one ;) )

    Not all DVD players have same firmware and not all DVD players have the same tolerances. The good news is that Patrick was expecting that there may still be issues and they have still got hold of the Arcam for de-bugging. It'd be good if you could email pharkin@lumagen.com .

    If you could download the config riper off the website and send them your config along with details of your display and the material that shows it obviously (if its everything including splash screen then say so). Your best feedback gets best results and I'd like to thank you for trying this out. I am home tomorrow...got tired and stopped on way back up road as I thought it safer than ploughinig head long in to a barrier on M6....ZZZZzzzzz

    Gordon
     
  26. ihan

    ihan
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    Hi Gordon,

    Yesterday, I e-mailed Patrick the latest v5.13.0 DV79 firmware. Unfortunately, I had to go out last evening, but I will e-mail him my Lumagen config this afternoon.

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  27. ihan

    ihan
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    Update:

    We discovered yesterday that the DV79 HDMI problem that Gordon & I were seeing was caused by the interlaced fields being reversed. This was not happening on Patrick's (@Lumagen) DV79. Now that Patrick knows this, he has to do further investigative work.

    A patched (field reversed) version of firmware showed that 4:2:2 interlaced from the DV79's HDMI port into the Lumagen's DVI input looked awesome with film material.

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  28. ihan

    ihan
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    I'm pleased to report that this now works properly. Thanks Patrick (& Gordon).

    Regards,
    Ian
     
  29. mthor

    mthor
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    hello,any advice would be greatly appreciated on the following..

    i am trying to get a 480i/576i from a dv79 > lumagenhdp > 50hd7

    i have installed the latest hdp firmware 030205,the dv79 firmware is:
    sw version: 5.13.0/lt79/02/ff
    mech.fw version:lt79

    i have the dv79 set to the following to try for 480/576i
    output priority-analogue
    force dvi - off
    progressive -off
    digital video -rgb(only option available,should it be set to yuv?)

    during a move i get the following on the hdp:
    in 16;9 ntsc, dvi/hdmi 444rgb, out 768p.

    is this a 480i/576i output from dv79 as theres no mention of it on hdp?
    maybe i need a dv79 firmware upgrade :confused:

    Mark.
     
  30. Gordon @ Convergent AV

    Gordon @ Convergent AV
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    Disconnect the HDMI out of the DVD player to the scaler. Then use a composite cabel to scaler so you can access the DV79 set up. You can now change the digital output to COMPONENT. All your other settings are correct.

    Now come out of the set up and plug the HDMI back in to scaler. Select 422 Component as the colourspace on that input. You should now get a picture. If you don't make sure HDCP is set to ON in Lumagen and that EDID is at default (I think thats what its called but Im not in front of one so can't say for sure.

    Gordon

    P.S. Please can you tell me who your dealers is?
     

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