HDMI 2.1 chips in AVRs and AV processors - transition to 40/48 Gbps, issues with video and graphics features

Really does seem like they are maintaining marketing silence in order to not highlight that all 2700/3700/4700 etc owners have less hdmi 2.1 capability than the entry level model and would be required to pay three figures to get the 3in1out switcher to rub it in some more :(

Indeed, a very sad face. Potentially just as bad, or worse, all the owners of 2019, 2020 and 2021 Denon models with centre dialogue bleed issue. Promised a fix "in Autumn 2021". If even more new models are being launched first, to make them even more money, rather than giving many of the current end users normal sound for 2 channel AV sources.
 
Anyone we can reach out to?

Really does seem like they are maintaining marketing silence in order to not highlight that all 2700/3700/4700 etc owners have less hdmi 2.1 capability than the entry level model and would be required to pay three figures to get the 3in1out switcher to rub it in some more :(

Agreed. It looks like stealthy introduction of 3 speedy ports on lower tier models and marketing silence to avoid infuriating people with more expensive models hosting one speedy port (and adapter for 2020 models).
 
I suspect some beancounter, and someone who did real shoddy market research (aka WAG) at D&M convinced others that no-one needed or wanted more than one high bandwidth port. Once that was baked into the design, that became part of the marketspeak when there was push back from the community. When other vendors started to announce/release units with several ports, they simply got pantsed and are now playing catch up in the market.
 
I suspect some beancounter, and someone who did real shoddy market research (aka WAG) at D&M convinced others that no-one needed or wanted more than one high bandwidth port. Once that was baked into the design, that became part of the marketspeak when there was push back from the community. When other vendors started to announce/release units with several ports, they simply got pantsed and are now playing catch up in the market.
It was not market research. Panasonic Solutions developed two different chips only. One faster, with 1-in-2-out 40 Gbps (Denon chose that one) and another one slower, 3-in-1-out 24 Gbps (Yamaha chose tha tone.). There was nothing else available when they decided to implement it. Others waited for the second gen of chips because they were aware of reliability issues. Product managers of several companies, including Trinnov, Onkyo and others said that openly during interviews.
 
The device manufacturers do not make the HDMI chipsets. Early adopters are more often than not limited as to what they can implement into their new products due to the fact that there are very few sources for such chipsets.

The manufacturers basiocally took what was on offer at the time.

Where they basically went wrong was in trying to introduce new models when they did. They should have waited.

There was no urgency to launch these models when they were launched and there still isn't really any imperative need for them. I'd surmise that some manufacturers simply tried to take advantage of some consumers' misconception that HDMI version 2.1 is of more importance than it actually is. The result being the fiasco that ensued.
 
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There was no urgency to launch these models when they were launched and there still isn't really any imperative need for them. I'd surmise that some manufacturers simply tried to take advantage of some consumers' misconception that HDMI version 2.1 is of more importance than it actually is. The result being the fiasco that ensued.
Well said.
 
The device manufacturers do not make the HDMI chipsets. Early adopters are more often than not limited as to what they can implement into their new products due to the fact that there are very few sources for such chipsets.

The manufacturers basiocally took what was on offer at the time.

Where they basically went wrong was in trying to introduce new models when they did. They should have waited.

There was no urgency to launch these models when they were launched and there still isn't really any imperative need for them. I'd surmise that some manufacturers simply tried to take advantage of some consumers' misconception that HDMI version 2.1 is of more importance than it actually is. The result being the fiasco that ensued.

And what is a bit of a shame is that, if they had asked the majority of their marketplace, there (in my opinion) would've been a long list of new features customers would like to see in the new generation of AVRs and the HDMI features would not have been at the top of that list.
 
Is it the same type of HDMI 2.1 chip that’s in a AVR & a TV ?
Seems strange D&M have had all this trouble when LG have had HDMI 2.1 48gbps in TVs like my C9 for years and works perfectly or is a AVR HDMI 2.1 chip that much different.
 
Is it the same type of HDMI 2.1 chip that’s in a AVR & a TV ?
No. Chips in TVs are input chips only. LG made in-house HDMI 2.1 board rather than sourcing it from MediaTek. Chips in AVRs are repeater chips, with more complex traces and data lanes.
 
And what is a bit of a shame is that, if they had asked the majority of their marketplace, there (in my opinion) would've been a long list of new features customers would like to see in the new generation of AVRs and the HDMI features would not have been at the top of that list.
They wanted to enter gaming entertainment market without doing a thorough research, prior testing and without waiting for certification process. There are consequences of such brazen approach.
 
An interesting post regarding one of Yamaha's 2020 HDMI bug effected models has been posted here:



The poster is saying that he has been told by a Yamaha service centre that a yellow dot on a label on the AV receiver's box denotes that his model has already received the revised HDMI board and chipset when it was manufactured.

1634581434482.png



Another member has then posted that his box also includes this yellow dot.

Yamaha haven't said anything themselves or even indicated whether they would be or have started fitting the revised boards at the point of manufacture. Maybe owners should start looking at the labels on their new Yamaha V4, V6 and A2 boxes to see if they too include the yellow dot?


Obviously no one can test whether the dot is actually an indication of a revised chipset because Yamaha still haven't released the firmware revision that would enable their HDMI 2.1 capabilities.
 
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It totally makes sense to manufracture AVRs with new boards, like Sound United, rather than organising entire operation of boards swap, which has already been an agonising wait for owners who wish to benefit it.
 
New budget friendly Denon AVRs with three 40 Gbps ports are going to demolish Yamaha's lower tier AVRs that have already been entrenched in troubles.
 
Already posted on here with UK pricing


Edited to remove my comments to that thread instead :)
 
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New budget friendly Denon AVRs with three 40 Gbps ports are going to demolish Yamaha's lower tier AVRs that have already been entrenched in troubles.


Yeah, maybe so, but will also demolish sales of Denon's own X2700 model that basically costs more, is supposed to be a highe=er tier AVR and only has one 40Gbps input that will in many cases still require the adaptor if one of the earlier models manufactured before May. The new X1700 or the S760 are also limited to just one HDMI output compared to the 2 you'd get on the X2700 or above.

The Yamaha models are no more entrenched in troubles than any of the models currently eminating from Sound UNited. Both manufacturers aooear to have multiple issues associated with HDMI handshaking regardless of when the models were built or which model you look at.
 
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The Yamaha models are no more entrenched in troubles than any of the models currently eminating from Sound UNited.
New Denons are going to sell like hot cakes for the holiday season in several markets, while Yamaha is not yet able to change faulty HDMI boards on 2020 models. It'd be good to see some sales figures soon. Sound United knew where to hit in lower tier market, especially with new HDMI 2.1 chips. Globally it's going to be grab-and-go, totally. They will, of course, anger owners of "one-speedy-port" AVRs from last year.
 
Personally I can't see the 1700 staying that price as it appears to offer multi xt and zone 2 capability but is the same £599 RRP as the 760?

Agree with the 2700 comment as the cost difference and then to only have one 40Gbit port is a tough pill to swallow
 
The Yamaha models are no more entrenched in troubles than any of the models currently eminating from Sound UNited.

As far as I'm aware, for example, D&M are still releasing products with the dialogue bleed to surrounds issue. I've not seen any indication of a fix for this.
 
As far as I'm aware, for example, D&M are still releasing products with the dialogue bleed to surrounds issue. I've not seen any indication of a fix for this.
Fixes are due in October to December, there is a mdel release schedule for the fix posted in the thread
 
It seems the time is not really great to get an AVR upgrade. I don't know why but I would prefer a Japanese brand over American ish. They are pretty much the same like onkyo (my current AVR) and pioneer, marantz and denon, except that marantz is pricey. The most likely option I found to an upgrade, by January, was Denon AVR-X2700H. Now i got to know that is has
"dialogue bleed to surrounds issue"
My options might change.
I have seem review from the flagship onkyo which works fine but too much for a 5.2.1 small living room.
Could not see any pioneer/ onkyo option in Europe apart of denon.
I'm happy to follow this thread to know the issues before the upgrade to a possible hassle/ issues free setup.
 
It seems the time is not really great to get an AVR upgrade. I don't know why but I would prefer a Japanese brand over American ish. They are pretty much the same like onkyo (my current AVR) and pioneer, marantz and denon, except that marantz is pricey. The most likely option I found to an upgrade, by January, was Denon AVR-X2700H. Now i got to know that is has

My options might change.
I have seem review from the flagship onkyo which works fine but too much for a 5.2.1 small living room.
Could not see any pioneer/ onkyo option in Europe apart of denon.
I'm happy to follow this thread to know the issues before the upgrade to a possible hassle/ issues free setup.

Apparently a fix for the X2700h is due in 3days time:
 
Apparently a fix for the X2700h is due in 3days time:
It seems it is out now! there is a new post in there, in case you're not watching it.
If they still fixing 2019 models, I hope 2021 get to run issues free then. =)
 
It seems it is out now! there is a new post in there, in case you're not watching it.
If they still fixing 2019 models, I hope 2021 get to run issues free then. =)

Should be fully fixed for all Denon/Marantz by the end of the year. Hopefully a few months later for Arcam/JBL. No idea about Anthem.
 

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