HDMI 2.1 chips in AVRs and AV processors - transition to 40/48 Gbps, issues with video and graphics features

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
Really does seem like they are maintaining marketing silence in order to not highlight that all 2700/3700/4700 etc owners have less hdmi 2.1 capability than the entry level model and would be required to pay three figures to get the 3in1out switcher to rub it in some more :(

Indeed, a very sad face. Potentially just as bad, or worse, all the owners of 2019, 2020 and 2021 Denon models with centre dialogue bleed issue. Promised a fix "in Autumn 2021". If even more new models are being launched first, to make them even more money, rather than giving many of the current end users normal sound for 2 channel AV sources.
 

TechEnthu

Member
Anyone we can reach out to?

Really does seem like they are maintaining marketing silence in order to not highlight that all 2700/3700/4700 etc owners have less hdmi 2.1 capability than the entry level model and would be required to pay three figures to get the 3in1out switcher to rub it in some more :(

Agreed. It looks like stealthy introduction of 3 speedy ports on lower tier models and marketing silence to avoid infuriating people with more expensive models hosting one speedy port (and adapter for 2020 models).
 

SeanBrothers

Active Member
I suspect some beancounter, and someone who did real shoddy market research (aka WAG) at D&M convinced others that no-one needed or wanted more than one high bandwidth port. Once that was baked into the design, that became part of the marketspeak when there was push back from the community. When other vendors started to announce/release units with several ports, they simply got pantsed and are now playing catch up in the market.
 

TechEnthu

Member
I suspect some beancounter, and someone who did real shoddy market research (aka WAG) at D&M convinced others that no-one needed or wanted more than one high bandwidth port. Once that was baked into the design, that became part of the marketspeak when there was push back from the community. When other vendors started to announce/release units with several ports, they simply got pantsed and are now playing catch up in the market.
It was not market research. Panasonic Solutions developed two different chips only. One faster, with 1-in-2-out 40 Gbps (Denon chose that one) and another one slower, 3-in-1-out 24 Gbps (Yamaha chose tha tone.). There was nothing else available when they decided to implement it. Others waited for the second gen of chips because they were aware of reliability issues. Product managers of several companies, including Trinnov, Onkyo and others said that openly during interviews.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
The device manufacturers do not make the HDMI chipsets. Early adopters are more often than not limited as to what they can implement into their new products due to the fact that there are very few sources for such chipsets.

The manufacturers basiocally took what was on offer at the time.

Where they basically went wrong was in trying to introduce new models when they did. They should have waited.

There was no urgency to launch these models when they were launched and there still isn't really any imperative need for them. I'd surmise that some manufacturers simply tried to take advantage of some consumers' misconception that HDMI version 2.1 is of more importance than it actually is. The result being the fiasco that ensued.
 
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TechEnthu

Member
There was no urgency to launch these models when they were launched and there still isn't really any imperative need for them. I'd surmise that some manufacturers simply tried to take advantage of some consumers' misconception that HDMI version 2.1 is of more importance than it actually is. The result being the fiasco that ensued.
Well said.
 

Dobbyisfree

Well-known Member
The device manufacturers do not make the HDMI chipsets. Early adopters are more often than not limited as to what they can implement into their new products due to the fact that there are very few sources for such chipsets.

The manufacturers basiocally took what was on offer at the time.

Where they basically went wrong was in trying to introduce new models when they did. They should have waited.

There was no urgency to launch these models when they were launched and there still isn't really any imperative need for them. I'd surmise that some manufacturers simply tried to take advantage of some consumers' misconception that HDMI version 2.1 is of more importance than it actually is. The result being the fiasco that ensued.

And what is a bit of a shame is that, if they had asked the majority of their marketplace, there (in my opinion) would've been a long list of new features customers would like to see in the new generation of AVRs and the HDMI features would not have been at the top of that list.
 

moominter

Active Member
Is it the same type of HDMI 2.1 chip that’s in a AVR & a TV ?
Seems strange D&M have had all this trouble when LG have had HDMI 2.1 48gbps in TVs like my C9 for years and works perfectly or is a AVR HDMI 2.1 chip that much different.
 

TechEnthu

Member
And what is a bit of a shame is that, if they had asked the majority of their marketplace, there (in my opinion) would've been a long list of new features customers would like to see in the new generation of AVRs and the HDMI features would not have been at the top of that list.
They wanted to enter gaming entertainment market without doing a thorough research, prior testing and without waiting for certification process. There are consequences of such brazen approach.
 

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