Question HDMI 1.4 / 4K query

IanS 01

Active Member
Hi all,

I have a Pioneer LX87. The manual says it had 4K pass-through but I think it only has HDMI 1.4, it was from 2015.

I am going 4K soon. Does pass-through mean just that - it will let the signal (any signal even if HDCP 4K blu-ray or 60 frames per second from a PS Pro?

I've seen people talking about ARC channels and buying a HDCP 2.2 box.

For 4K blu ray, Sky Ultra HD or 4K gaming with PS Pro or the new Xbox One X, do I really need a new amp for the same audio/visual switching that I currently get through the amp?

Cheers all.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Your receiver cannot passthrough UHD 4K encoded content and hasn't the HDCP 2.1 compliance needed to be able to do so.

You could continue to use your non compliant receiver to some degree if you buy a UHD player that includes two HDMI outputs. You'd then be able to convey UHD encoded and HDCP 2.1 protected video directly to a UHD TV via one output while still conveying HD audio formats via the other HDMI output to the receiver. This will be limited to UHD sources that include two HDMI outputs though.

HDMI ARC is limited to SD audio formats and would not allow you to passthrough HD formats commonly associated with Blu-ray and or UHD discs. ARC connot convey HD formats such as DTS-HD Master Audio or Dolby TrueHD and is limited to just 2 channels of PCM audio.
 

IanS 01

Active Member
Ok, thanks. The manual clearly states I can pass-through 4K. Assume now that just means unprotected content but it's very misleading.

Apparently you can buy an external box for HDCP. Will that not help?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You'd need at least a receiver with HDMI version 2.0 and HDCP 2.1 compliance to be able to passthrough the 4K signal associated with UHD Blu-ray and or UHD services such as that available via BT or the Netflix and Amazon 4K streaming services.
 

IanS 01

Active Member
Ok, thanks.

Does an external HDCP box solve any problem?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Ok, thanks.

Does an external HDCP box solve any problem?
It isn't just the HDCP protection. THe 4K passthrough capabilities of your receiver do not correspond with the UHD standards for 4K. You can employ something like the HDFury to bypass the HDCP 2.1 protection, but this still will not result in your receiver being able to passthrough natively encoded UHD content. Your receiver was designed and built prior to the UHD standards being in existence and its rated 4K capabilities simply relate to resolution as opposed to other elements now incorporated into those standards.
 

IanS 01

Active Member
Ok thanks. None of the 4K sources I am getting have 2 HDMI outs, assume a standard HDMI splitter solves that issue?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Ok thanks. None of the 4K sources I am getting have 2 HDMI outs, assume a standard HDMI splitter solves that issue?
No. A splitter simply splits the HDMI signal so the return handshake from the AV receiver would still determine what the source outputs. THe source would use the least capable device's EDID to determine the video it can output in such a scenario and your AV receiver would be that least capable device.
 

sdb123

Distinguished Member
Ok thanks. None of the 4K sources I am getting have 2 HDMI outs, assume a standard HDMI splitter solves that issue?
No, it wouldn't as it would just give you two lots of audio/video instead of one. I am in a similar position however have decided to get a UHD player two outputs; one with video to the display and audio via the second HDMI output (1.4) to the amp so I can still get HD audio formats.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
have decided to get a UHD player two outputs; one with video to the display and audio via the second HDMI output (1.4) to the amp so I can still get HD audio formats.
Yes. The player's two outputs will be labelled "AUDIO" and "VIDEO". THe player seperates the signal into two parts and only conveys the audio to the receiver via the audio output. This in turn negates the need for the AV receiver to comply with what is required to passthrough or handle UHD encoded video. The UHD encoded video is simultteaneously output to a compliant device or diplay via the HDMI video output. THe audio being sent to the AV receiver would be the exact same audio you'd have got if making a more conventional connection and will still be HD in nature if the content included such audio and if the receiver itself is able to handle HD audio.
 

Joe Fernand

Distinguished Member
AVForums Sponsor
'do I really need a new amp for the same audio/visual switching that I currently get through the amp' - potentially yes.

As dante01 says the UHD_BD Player is a relatively simple 'fix' (assuming you go for a Dual HDMI Out unit) - the rest of your proposed devices are not so easy and whilst you could consider combining a couple of external devices to deliver UHD to the Display + HD to the AVR from multiple Sources (see Linker + Integral Bundle – The Media Factory) you may want to consider replacing the AVR.

Joe
 

IanS 01

Active Member
All, sorry, my final query re a splitter as the source equipment doesn't have two outs, I mean to then have one to amp for full audio and one direct to TV. Surely that works? Or does the audio go through the same HDCP decoding?
 

IanS 01

Active Member
I'd be bypassing the amp for video but not HDMI audio
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
All, sorry, my final query re a splitter as the source equipment doesn't have two outs, I mean to then have one to amp for full audio and one direct to TV. Surely that works? Or does the audio go through the same HDCP decoding?
No, it is as I explained:

No. A splitter simply splits the HDMI signal so the return handshake from the AV receiver would still determine what the source outputs. THe source would use the least capable device's EDID to determine the video it can output in such a scenario and your AV receiver would be that least capable device.

A splitter doesn't separate the audio out from the video signal.


There are more specialised splitters with audio extraction, but their price is close to what it would cost you to buy an compliant AV receiver.
 

IanS 01

Active Member
You said video. I'm talking about bypassing the amp i.e. video straight from source to TV using a splitter, and just running audio to the amp.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
You said video. I'm talking about bypassing the amp i.e. video straight from source to TV using a splitter, and just running audio to the amp.
Yes, but you cannot stop the video signal from the source still going to the AV receiver. The HDMI signal being output by the source would simply go to the splitter and the splitter would simply output the same HDMI signal to both the TV and the AV receiver. The HDMI return handshake from the AV receiver would tell the source that its isn't UHD or HDCP 2.1 compliant so the source wouldn't output a 4K signal. It make no difference that you also have a 4K TV present because HDMI uses the least capable device present for guidance on what a source can output.

An HDMI splitter doesn't differentiate between the audio and the video elements of the signal.
 

IanS 01

Active Member
Would the amp play the audio in that scenario?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Would the amp play the audio in that scenario?
Yes, but the associated video will have been either downscaled by the source to a resolution the receiver accepts or one which doesn't require HDCP 2.1 compliance. In some instances you may even find the source refusing to output anything?
 

IanS 01

Active Member
Thanks. As I've tried to explain, with a splitter I would be sending the video direct to the TV, so the video is sorted. So a splitter will indeed sort me out, the only thing I lose is auto switching vid and audio together it seems, so will have to reselect both amp and TV for different source equipment.
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Thanks. As I've tried to explain, with a splitter I would be sending the video direct to the TV, so the video is sorted. So a splitter will indeed sort me out, the only thing I lose is auto switching vid and audio together it seems, so will have to reselect both amp and TV for different source equipment.
No!

The source will not output UHD video to your TV if you split using its single output between your UHD compliant TV and the non compliant AV receiver. There no ifs or buts about this. You cannot do as you propose.

Your assumption is that I don't understand you when saying you are going to use a splitter. I understand you perfectly and no, it will not work. You are of cause welcome to waste your money on a splitter and find out for yourself.
 
Last edited:

IanS 01

Active Member
Thanks Dante. Are you saying there is absolutely nothing I can do about this at all, absolutely no way of getting surround from my amp, and 4K from source to TV?
 

dante01

Distinguished Member
Thanks Dante. Are you saying there is absolutely nothing I can do about this at all, absolutely no way of getting surround from my amp, and 4K from source to TV?
Not if dealing with a UHD source that only has a single HDMI output.
 

IanS 01

Active Member
Optical?
 

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