HDMI 1.3 AV Amps and 3D passthrough? Please post your experiences :)

This really, really needs clearing up …

It is becoming apparent that an HDMI 1.4 interface isn't strictly required on AV amps in order to passthrough a 3D signal. As long as the HDMI 1.3 interface on older amps passes the signal through, there is no need for HDMI 1.4 on the amp.

In order to help advise others, I'd like those with older amps and the ability to test this to post their experiences, tips and conclusions regarding using 3D players and displays in conjunction with HDMI 1.3 equipped AV amps. If people also have information gleaned from elsewhere that they'd like to post here then that too would be helpful.


TIA



PS I'm really surprised no one has bothered to do this yet????

 

I am just looking to upgrade to 3D and wonder why you need to pass the signal through the AV receiver?
When you connect the player don't you connect direct to the TV for the picture, and from the player to the amp for the sound?
Excuse my ignorance in this area!


Henry.

 

You may want video switching, but more importantly…

the HDMI interface used for both audio and video is one of only two means by which to transfer HD audio (the other is multichannel analogue RCA). If you connect the HDMI ooutput of your 3D player to the TV then you'd only be left with the option of either optical or coax output to the AV amp for audio. The S/PDIF protcol used for both optical and digi coax cannot handle the bandwidth needed for the HD formats. Panasonic have thought of this and do produce 3D players with two HDMI outputs, one for the video to a 3D TV and the other for the HD audio to a HDMI 1.3 equiped AV receiver.

http://ces.cnet.com/8301-31045_1-10427858-269.html


I should point out a few inacurencie with the above quote. Firstly, you do not need new cables to transmit 3D signals. The older high speed spec is still true of 3D. You only need new cables if wanting to take advantage of the new ethernet abilities of HDMI 1.4. I know of no instances where ethernet is yet being exploited by the new HDMI 1.4 devices? SEcondly, It may be that a HDMI 1.4 AV receiver isn't a requirement for 3D and primarily the reason for this thread???


For more information regarding the HD audio formats that are commonly associated with Blu-ray, see here:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-a...06-attempt-explain-high-definition-audio.html

 

Related topic:
http://www.avforums.com/forums/av-a...92-ps3-3d-tv-v-receiver-hd-audio-problem.html

 

This is what I initally thought (or hoped) but I cannot get 3D through my Sony STR-DA3200ES, it works directly connected (PS3 > TV) and I can see 3D option when setting up Display in the PS3. But when I connect back through my AVR it does not seem to support 3D. 3D content I have currently is a couple of PSN games, MotorStorm 3D Rift and WipeOut HD. So am I forced to buy a new AVR I ask myself, at the moment 2 3D games won't make me change but since I got a 3D TV it would be nice to have it though the AVR for the full experience.

 

Have you tried the trick whereby you first connect the PS3 to the TV and initiate the setup then connect back up to the AV amp?

It has been reported that this gets the PS3 to passthrough the 3D signal when connected to HDMI 1.3 amps.

There's no issue with passing the signal through, it is just that the PS3 refuses to output the 3D signal because it can't detect the TV's capabilities and is trying to use the amps EDID.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/12643750-post4.html

 

Thanks, I believe so, I mean I initially connect the PS3 directly to TV and set the Display settings in PS3 to show the 3D options (it even automatically recognises size of the TV 63"). So everything is fine now, can play 3D Rift in 3D but obviously sounds is via TV speakers now. Then I turned off the AV gear and reconnected PS3 via my AVR, but it does not seem to remember the saved 3D settings set previously. Unless you mean I should change cables in the middle of something without switching off? I even turned video upconversion off in case this interfered with it, but this made no difference.

 

Sorry I can't test for you because I don't have a 3D TV. This is another reason for this thread, so that those with the correct equipment can post their experiences and help others with more detailed explanations. I've heard the tip on connecting the PS3 directly to the TV on at least two occasions now and both instances were very vague on what and how it should be done.

 

I don't know if it makes any difference, but I don't think STR-DA3200ES has HDMI 1.3

 

Yeah, after a quick internet search it would appear that the receiver only has version 1.2a?

http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=26531&forum=51


I believe 3D requires a clock speed of at least 300MHz, but HDMI 1.2a maximises out at 165MHz.



Version 1.0 to 1.2
HDMI 1.0 was released December 9, 2002 and is a single-cable digital audio/video connector interface with a maximum TMDS bandwidth of 4.9 Gbit/s. It supports up to 3.96 Gbit/s of video bandwidth (1080p/60 Hz or UXGA) and 8 channel LPCM/192 kHz/24-bit audio. HDMI 1.1 was released on May 20, 2004 and added support for DVD-Audio. HDMI 1.2 was released August 8, 2005 and added support for One Bit Audio, used on Super Audio CDs, at up to 8 channels. It also added the availability of HDMI Type A connectors for PC sources, the ability for PC sources to only support the sRGB color space while retaining the option to support the YCbCr color space, and required HDMI 1.2 and later displays to support low-voltage sources. HDMI 1.2a was released on December 14, 2005 and fully specifies Consumer Electronic Control (CEC) features, command sets, and CEC compliance tests.

Version 1.3
HDMI 1.3 was released June 22, 2006 and increased the single-link bandwidth to 340 MHz (10.2 Gbit/s). It optionally supports Deep Color, with 30-bit, 36-bit, and 48-bit xvYCC, sRGB, or YCbCr, compared to 24-bit sRGB or YCbCr in previous HDMI versions. It also optionally supports output of Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio streams for external decoding by AV receivers. It incorporates automatic audio syncing (audio video sync) capability. It defined cable Categories 1 and 2, with Category 1 cable being tested up to 74.25 MHz and Category 2 being tested up to 340 MHz. ] It also added the new Type C Mini connector for portable devices.

HDMI 1.3a was released on November 10, 2006 and had Cable and Sink modifications for Type C, source termination recommendations, and removed undershoot and maximum rise/fall time limits. It also changed CEC capacitance limits, clarified sRGB video quantization range, and CEC commands for timer control were brought back in an altered form, with audio control commands added. It also added support for optionally streaming SACD in its bitstream DST format rather than uncompressed raw DSD like from HDMI 1.2 onwards.

HDMI 1.3b, 1.3b1 and 1.3c were released on March 26, 2007, November 9, 2007, and August 25, 2008 respectively. They do not introduce differences on HDMI features, functions, or performance, but only describe testing for products based on the HDMI 1.3a specification regarding HDMI compliance (1.3b), the HDMI Type C Mini connector (1.3b1), and active HDMI cables (1.3c_.]

Version 1.4
HDMI 1.4 was released on May 28, 2009, and the first HDMI 1.4 products were available in the second half of 2009. HDMI 1.4 increases the maximum resolution to 4K × 2K (3840×2160p at 24 Hz/25 Hz/30 Hz and 4096×2160p at 24 Hz, which is a resolution used with digital theaters); an HDMI Ethernet Channel, which allows for a 100 Mb/s Ethernet connection between the two HDMI connected devices; and introduces an Audio Return Channel, 3D Over HDMI (HDMI 1.3 devices will only support this for 1080i), a new Micro HDMI Connector, expanded support for color spaces, and an Automotive Connection System. HDMI 1.4 supports several stereoscopic 3D formats including field alternative (interlaced), frame packing (a full resolution top-bottom format), line alternative full, side-by-side half, side-by-side full, 2D + depth, and 2D + depth + graphics + graphics depth (WOWvx), with additional top/bottom formats added in version 1.4a . HDMI 1.4 requires that 3D displays support the frame packing 3D format at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24. High Speed HDMI 1.3 cables can support all HDMI 1.4 features except for the HDMI Ethernet Channel.

HDMI 1.4a was released on March 4, 2010 and adds two additional mandatory 3D formats for broadcast content which was deferred with HDMI 1.4 in order to see the direction of the 3D broadcast market. HDMI 1.4a has defined mandatory 3D formats for broadcast, game, and movie content. HDMI 1.4a requires that 3D displays support the frame packing 3D format at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24, side-by-side horizontal at either 1080i50 or 1080i60, and top-and-bottom at either 720p50 and 1080p24 or 720p60 and 1080p24.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI




A 36-bit support is mandatory for Deep Color compatible consumer electronics devices, with 48-bit support being optional.

B Maximum resolution is based on CVT-RB, which is a VESA standard for non-CRT-based displays. Using CVT-RB 1920×1200 would have a video bandwidth of 3.69 Gbit/s, 2560×1600 would have a video bandwidth of 8.12 Gbit/s, and 4096×2160 would have a video bandwidth of 5.35 Gbit/s.

C Using CVT-RB 2560×1600 would have a video bandwidth of 8.12 Gbit/s and 4096×2160 would have a video bandwidth of 6.69 Gbit/s.

D Using CVT-RB 1920×1200 would have a video bandwidth of 7.91 Gbit/s and 4096×2160 would have a video bandwidth of 8.03 Gbit/s.

E Using CVT-RB 1920×1200 would have a video bandwidth of 7.39 Gbit/s.

F Even for a compressed audio codec that a given HDMI version cannot transport, the source device may be able to decode the audio codec and transmit the audio as uncompressed LPCM.

G CEC has been in the HDMI specification since version 1.0, but only began to be used in consumer electronics products with HDMI version 1.3a.

H Playback of SACD may be possible for older HDMI versions if the source device (such as the Oppo 970) converts to LPCM.

I Large number of additions and clarifications for CEC commands. One addition is CEC command, allowing for volume control of an AV receiver.

 

Well my Sony DG-910 crashes (shuts itself off) whenever I try and run 3d content through, both from ps3 and samsungs 3d blu-ray player, so it's a complete no go on that.

 

Is the 910 HDMI 1.3??

 

Sky 3D seems to pass through fine via my Onkyo 876 1.3a but i know that Sky is not Full HD 3D like Blu ray.

But when connecting Panasonic BT300 3D Blu ray via the 876 it will not play
3D content message comes up saying
"3D Experience Requires 3D enabled TV and Player"

although it will still play normal blu-rays fine via the 876.

I use a Samsung PS63 3D TV

 

No 3D passthrough on the Sony STRDN1000 (it had a bit of trouble even recognising the stream, colour comes out very pink). The cheaper DH800 still won't pass the 3D content, but it does display it in 2D and full colour at least. Using a Sony S470 BD player and a KDL40HX803 3DTV.

 

No idea actually, assumed it was, but it's old enough (and crap enough) to not be, not my best purchase

Update: Nope 1.2, but either way it doesn't work at all, well with it being 1.2 and 1.4 being the current feel less fussed about ditching it for a nice new model

 

I'm sort of getting the impression that Sony amps will not passthrough any 3D signal unless the interfac is HDMI 1.4. Strange seeing as the PS3 is made by Sony and their HDMI 1.3amps are seemingly one of the brands not able to passthrough 3D games

Anyone using a Sony HDMI 1.3 equipped receiver that can passthrough 3D games?

 

I have been looking for this kind of thread in a few different forums and agree it's needed to clear up what is and isn't capatible.

Thanks for bringing that to my attention, I always assumed it was 1.3 So I guess now there's no chance of it ever working. I won't change it for only a couple of 3D games, but when 3D becomes mainstream I may be forced to. By which time my 3DTV is probably outdated.

I just had a quick peek at the STR-DA3600ES which is v1.4 and is priced at £999, so this series sure has rocketed in price - I paid £480 for my STR-DA3200ES on sale from Krish AV 3 years ago.

 

Just to let you know we got a Sony 5500 ES and have the same issue. This is the most top end Sony Amp we could get and it will not work with 3D - brilliant!

 

Don't know where you are geographically but presumably the HDMI1.4 5600ES will be along shortly.

The x500ES series seemed very temporary presumably due to having no HDMI1.4.

 

I've been pointed here by PSM1 (thanks!) to share my experiences.

I've got the equipment in my sig, and the amp that's part of the Sony HT-DDWG800 (which is actually model STR-KG800) doesn't do Blu-Ray 3D passthrough or ARC (audio return channel). This is all tried and tested with all settings I could think of. Everything else works perfectly fine, and a 3D Blu Ray will show the main menu fine, but when attempting to play the actual feature which is 3D the player comes up with "you need a compatible 3D TV" or something like that. Only way of getting around it so far has been to do as follows:

[player] ===HDMI=== [TV]
[player] ===TOSLINK===[Receiver]

That means I can only have the standard-quality 5.1 soundtracks, that's about the only disadvantage.

 

I'd be interested to know if anyone has a Yamaha RX-V1900 and whether it will passthrough 3D?

 

Does anyone one know if the Sony STR-DA2400ES has any 3D pass through?
If not, does anyone know if it would work if I were to split the signal from the PS3 with an HDMI splitter and have one half to TV and one half to AMP?
Using something like this:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/HDMI-Splitt...3?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1285618891&sr=8-3
thus retaining HD sound capability for regular blu-ray.

 

I very much doubt it. Seems like all of Sony HDMI 1.3 AVRs do not, given that someone posted that their STR-DA5500ES doesn't work with it, I'd say there's no chance. The new 1.4 HDMI AVRs STR-DA3600ES and STR-DA5600ES due for sale will.

 

I still didn't get an answer to the main part of my question:
i.e. Would I be able to split the signal from the PS3 with an HDMI splitter and have one half to TV and one half to AMP?
Using something like this:
HDMI Splitter - Premium Quality / 1 in to 2 output: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
thus retaining HD sound capability for regular blu-ray.

 

I purchased the Samsung PS50C680 50 from dixons and I now wonder whether 3d will work with my Onkyo 607, any ideas?

 

I can confirm that 3d passes through just fine.

 

My Sony str-da5400es passes 3d

 

Great. Thanks for posting.

Could you provide more detail as to the type of 3D signals it passes and the equipment you are using in conjunction with the amp?

TIA

 

Hi. Please expand on this. Are you using and STR-DA2400ES? What settings do you have it on? Are you using a PS3 for 3D blu-ray?

Thanks.